Where do you draw the line?

Alan Pardew.

Alan Pardew.
Barton - Waiting for ambition?
I’ve read many a comment over the last few days questioning the ambition of the club and bemoaning the fact that the club doesn’t pay massive wages anymore.

So in true NUFC Blog style I’ve decided to take a look at it from a broader perspective and question the merits, or indeed pitfalls, of this particular wage structure malarkey.

The sale of Andy Carroll to Liverpool seems to have been the tipping point for some. There is no doubt that he could have been a hero on Tyneside, but a £35 million fee (incidentally, even an inflation adjusted Alan Shearer would cost only £21.5 million) was too hard to refuse. Or was it?

It’s pretty clear that Carroll was being whispered to in his ear. It happens all the time and it’s called tapping up. It’s also illegal but let’s not pretend that the murky world of football agents would care about a small fact like that.

Basically, Carroll wanted a pay rise, which is fair enough (don’t we all), but to want one that puts him on the same level of money that he is earning at Liverpool was just never going to happen at Newcastle. He was due a new deal in the summer, allegedly and couldn’t wait an extra five months to negotiate. His choice, but how far do you go to keep a player? £50,000-a-week? £80,000-a-week? £100,000-a-week?

I’ve read some comments suggesting that the club should have given him a new deal to signal ambition, but I’d counter that by saying that our wage cap is not too far off Tottenham’s, who had the luxury of Champions League football this season. Put simply, our wage cap is far from being low, especially for a team that has just arrived back in the Premier League after a brief flirt in the Championship.

Part of the problem that we have is that the club are still in the process of rebuilding the squad. We currently have players such as Alan Smith and Xisco who are on huge wages and offer little in return. It will take time to address these of course, as players have contracts and they can be worth something if they want them to be. These are eating up valuable wages that could be used elsewhere.

Our wagebill is still comfortably in the top ten in the Premier League, despite the savings that have been made. This is not a problem of course due to our income, which can cover it, but the problem is that we need to shift the focus from paying over the odds for players who offer little in return to paying wages for players who are actually worth it. As a crude example, Alan Smith (£60,000-a-week) compared to Cheik Tiote (anywhere between £35,000 and £50,000-a-week depending on what you read). Who is the better value?

If players can get more than what they can get here then fair enough, but they’ll only ever get sold to the top clubs as they will be the only ones who can afford to better us, and if a top club is interested in a player then it means that they will have performed for us which will hopefully mean that we have pushed that little bit higher up the league and caught up a bit more with those above us.

People need to get over this ‘we are a selling club’ notion and realise that EVERY club sells players when the price is right. Even Manchester United shipped Ronaldo off to Spain for the right price. Do they lack ambition?

I just think people need to remember where we are as a club – including some of the players. Back at the start of the season it was survival that was the aim. It still is of course, but some perspective is needed. The club can’t be sorted out overnight – it will require patience.

For those who are saying that players will leave if we don’t pay the wages and claim that by not paying them we are lacking in ambition, ask yourself if it really is a lack of ambition or whether it’s just the way of the world.

It happens. Get over it. NUFC will continue another day.

About toonsy

A lifelong Newcastle fan and current webmaster of this very 'blog who has the sole aim of creating a place by Newcastle United fans, for Newcastle United fans.

122 thoughts on “Where do you draw the line?

  1. Hopefully if Campbell, Xisco and Smith leave that will free up a reported £145k a week, that could cover pretty much most of our signings.

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  2. And the club is making an extra £2.50 out of my for needing a paper ticket, that should help 😉

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  3. Spurs pay Robbie Keane about 70k a week don’t they? Or they did before he went to WH. Our current wage ceiling is nowhere near that.

    I believe players should be paid what their worth. How can Liverpool afford to pay Carroll £80k a week? They don’t have CL money and probably won’t even be in Europe next season.

    If we are going to sell our better players to the top clubs we might as well turn the lights off, as if we keep doing it we’ll never catch them up.

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  4. Ice I lost my wallet and therefore my membership card, it cost £75 for my train ticket mate, it all adds up 🙂

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  5. Stuart – Becasue Liverpool are still a far bigger club than Newcastle. They generate more money through merchandise, sponsorship, corporate and matchday revenues than we ever have done, even when we were in the Champions League for that blink of a knat’s eye that time some years ago.

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  6. heard g. graham talking toon on talk-sport saying top players are getting £100000/150000 a wk,also didnt seem to rate pardew to get job done at toon 🙄

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  7. I think BS#9 aka Keith Lard may have a few issues with this article…talk about inflammatory Toonsy!

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  8. Totally agree toonsy, just because we have sold Carroll does not signal a lack of ambition. And for the figure we received for him justifies the sale of any player.

    For me I am happy with the way we are conducting business, it’s simple risk managemant. If we minimise our costs, we minimise our risks. And in turn our profits can be maximised.

    If any player expects to be paid more than the wage cap, and are williing force a move away from the club (I.e. Carroll) then let them leave, there is no point in breaking policy for any one player no matter how good they are, as this will only affect the happiness and harmony of the club

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  9. I believe the wage cap is a very good idea and will be taken up by all clubs over the next decade… However I also believe that certain players should be an exception… If we want to bring in a top class striker, we may need 2 off him more than the 50,000 cap per week… But this also may cause unsettlement for the players who are within the cap….

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  10. Personally I think it’s going to be nigh on impossible to get into the top echoleons of the PL without getting a helping hand from an owner.

    Arsenal started this youth development from a very strong base, and they haven’t won anything since, Spurs are struggling to keep pace and will probably just be a one off CL team, like Everton.

    It’s all about money.

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  11. Dazzalar
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

    Not in the history of the world has a ‘risk free’ business ever existed, let alone succeed.

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  12. excellent article toonsy… 🙂

    It¨s the way of the world, we all have a threshold which we mean we are worth, only in sport this threshold is insanely inflated and has nothing to do with reality. A footballers career is a short one, and they all want to earn as much as possible, and win things into the bargain…Thrown in “a change is as good as a rest” factor and there you have it. Loyalty in football is few and far between, and when it is there it needs to be matched by ambition and hard cash, otherwise the player will seek pastures new… lucky barstewards if you ask me…. 👿 👿 👿

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  13. It’s all about balancing risk tough isn’t it?

    I mean it’s different for a company who goes out and acquires a load of equipment to do a job as opposed to a Bank that is dabbling in dodgy loans whilst holding nowt back for a rainy day.

    Or to translate that….

    Buying 4 players at £5 million a pop and having two work out mean you’ve only “lost” £10 million, some of which you can grab back. Whereas buying 1 £20 million player who doesn’t work out leaves you in a much bigger mess.

    Given our last couple of signings for around the £5 mill mark I’m willing to give it a chance.

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  14. Spot on article,

    mirrored by thoughts exactly.

    Still wanting to know who pays the wages at SJP as apparantly Ashley doesn’t? 😉

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  15. MM – It’s really simple economics, but it gets clouded because we all have an emotional attachment to the club and assume that by spending big it will bring success.

    I’ve yet to see Man City win a trophy. How are Chelsea doing this season?

    The bottom line is that if you have £300 in your pocket and the telly you want is £500 then what do you do? You try and save up for the rest. Or to parallel it with the club, you try and grow the income of the club to a point where it can afford to pay out the extra money.

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  16. Or buying youth for peanuts & nurturing them is low risk…if they work great, if not you haven’t spend millions on a flop…

    You mention arsenal but wouldn’t you swap their leagues positions for the last 5/10 years…you seem to expect us to be challenging for title…but have forgotten we’ve only done that 2 seasons in the last 50 years or so…

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  17. Stuart79…why shouldn^t we manage to get into the “top echelons” of the PL? (whatever that may be by the way…??)…

    We haven´t won anything worthwhile for years, and historically an occasional top five finish is par for the course, nothing more. The Champions League era was a one off, but is by no means impossible to repeat. Maybe people need to have a reality check, flippin heck we cannot blame everything on Ashley !

    Don`´t forget Man Utd were once in the second division, then they lived for years on the back of a wonderful youth team which included Beckham, ****, Giggs, Neville brothers et al…. I´m curious what will happen to Manure once Fergie departs…..

    Let´s see what the summer break brings and which new players we can bring in. It´s been patently obvious this season, that anyone can beat anyone, and with the the team currently sitting in 11th not yet sure of avoiding relegation points to a really tight PL.

    The old Champions League DVD^s are great fun…..but we need to walk before we can run, and we¨´re doing ok so far imo….Lets get re-established back in the big league, then take it from there… 😆

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  18. Batty – Nah. Only been two weeks and they say to give it a month.

    Munich – We’re ninth mate 😉

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  19. It’s not all about money. If it was, Man City would win everything. Sure, if you pay big you get the big players. Big players are not always the best people to have

    On a much smaller scale thanthe PL I’ve just seen a season in Australia where one of the cheapest teams in the league blitzed everybody and won everything, including going on a 28 game unbeaten streak. They did it by playing innovative football.

    It’s far too simplistic to say it’s all about money. The coach has a big say in it.Team spirit has a say in it. Tactics, strategy, structure of the team, and probably many more things than my brain can think up at the moment are involved.

    Teams can and do play well above expectations.

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  20. @toonsy
    I think the article is pointless unless you know the level of wage cap. Is it £50k £40K or as low as £30k?
    How do you know that’s it’s just below Spurs’ wage cap.
    I haven’t found any quote confirming the level of NUFC wage cap but we are starting to find players on big contracts which are due for renewal expressing their displeasure at the contracts offered.
    Nowhere have I heard Carroll or any Toon official suggest he wanted the same wage as what Liverpool were offering. What I did hear from Carroll and Pardew was that Ashley and Lambias point blank refused to discuss a contract on the final day of the window.
    Twitters I love the Keith Lard tag . 😆 😆 😆

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  21. toonsy, have you heard owt from Louise…? 😳 😳 😳 😆

    icedog@23……aye a tough life for Rooney eh ?….loads of wedge and he still isn¨t a happy camper…swearing at tele cameras and all that….. or maybe thats what being a true Evertonian but having to play for Manure does to yer heed ??

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  22. A good manager with the correct tactics can go a long way to getting the best out of an average group of players.
    Look at how much money Mancini has been throwing around, and they haven´t won owt yet as far as I can remember…Couldn¨t even make it in the europa league against the best teams in Portugal…etc…there again the scousers couldn´t manage it either… 😆 😆

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  23. Are Liverpool a ‘selling club’ for getting rid of Torres?

    No.

    So why are we for cashing in on a player who wanted away? Differerence being, Liverpool replaced him with more than 1 player. If we do the same in this window and they are quality, will people still moan? Probably 🙄

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  24. Bobby – Well Ben Arfa was on 60-odd k (euros) a week when he arrived, so he has either taken a huge cut or is on the 50k a week that was mentioned at the time.

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  25. MM/BRISVEGAS both comments have good points imo,is it also down to the type of footy fans will accept at there club ie big sams type of game,stokes type of game ect ect.dont like moyes at everton but on limited funds has done quite well,just lets wait and see what the summer brings,(lost count the number of years ive said that like 😐 )

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  26. Where is Stardust anyway?

    I dont think theres one of us that would be happy if we were told we had to take a paycut, but then it is down to them as a person what matters most, the money or the football. They could all go to Abu Dhabi and get outrageous money if they wanted to, but I suspect the level of football, ie EPL, and the amount of time they get to play will largely outweigh th still outrageous wages

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  27. Football economics are totally and utterly different to that of the reall business world – Ashley has said as much, all be it through Pardew.

    In normal business you need a product that you can sell, once you have that product, that’s it, you sell it and it stays the same for a number of years. Some companies design improved products, some just stick to what they know. After start up costs, there’s very little further investment needed – unless it’s for growth.

    In football you need to invest every year or you get overtaken.

    With toonsy talking about spreading the risk – it’s doesn’t work. It’s like playing roulette, if you spread the risk and put a grand on red and a grand on black, you aren’t going to win anything.

    In short football is totally different!

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  28. reet …off for a game of tennis and a couple of pints of Sangria….wehey… 😆 😆 😆

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  29. Toonsy
    Im with you attracting the “right players” with high wages attracts the wrong players.We have had our share of these journeymen!
    How many times did you hear in relegation year “Our experienced big names would save us” I just wish we could get over the Carroll thing.He has now joined the ranks of the money chaseing journeymen and is not likely to change his mind or be back any day soon We now have the best chance we have had in a long time to really move on this summer will show it one way or another.My only doubt if I have one is Pardew

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  30. Although I’m saying a club should put all their eggs in one basket. I’m saying the best players cost the most money.

    As I said yesterday – There’s a reason why Bentleys cost more than Ford Escorts – because they can do more and you get a better performance..

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  31. Stuart79….”Football economics are totally and utterly different to that of the reall business world – Ashley has said as much, all be it through Pardew.”…….

    I could have told you that mate….football economics is like Fantasy Island at times…! 😆 😆

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  32. Stuart – investment can happen in many different ways. It doesn’t always have to be financial.

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  33. Ok then Stuart, if it doesn’t work then please answer this. There are two options.

    1) We sign four players for a combined value of £20 million. Two of those players turn out to be rather hot ala Benny and Tiote whilst the other two don’t really work out and are sold on for £2 million each say.

    You have two players who are performing in the first team, whose values will have risen accordingly, which will cancel out the £6 million hit on the other two.

    2) You sign one player for £20 million and he is great. Fantastic.

    On the other hand he is the next Michael Owen or big name failure, or suffers a serious injury etc. What then? No backup. No contingency plan. No player on the pitch. And no money to buy anyone else with.

    As anyone who is successful will tell you: don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

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  34. Good muse Toonsy and you’ve certainly provoked some debate!

    How can Liverpool afford to pay Carroll £80k a week you ask, well, Toonsy knows as well as me and may others that they get the big sponsorships because they are a global brand ala Man United. Newcastle United, despite what some deluded folk think, is not. When we area global brand, then we’ll be able to raise our financial game a bit.

    The parallel with having £300 and wanting a TV that costs £500 offered two solutions – You try and save up for the rest or you try and grow the income to a point where it can afford to pay out the extra money.

    There is of course the third way as demonstrated by the previous owners….. borrow or mortgage yourself up to the gills and be burdened with unsustainable debt!

    Is that what fans of Newcastle United want? I’d like to think not and its gotta be one step at at time – live within what’s affordable and by the look of the club’s accounts, we’re going in the right direction.

    It’ll take a bit time, but we’ll get there.

    😎

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  35. Brisvegas
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 2:09 PM
    Innovation, mate. Think outside the box.

    Ultimately it will need a financial investment to make it happen.

    If you’re joiner and come up with this great new innovation, it will likely cost you money to make, money to advertise and if you get busy because it’s brilliant you will need to get a new factory and empley more people.

    Or will the tooth fairy leave you a big new factory under your pillow?

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  36. I also think that right now is hardly the time to preach about big money players being better.

    Torres – £50 million.
    Dzeko – £27 million.
    Balotelli – £25 million.

    Hernandez – £8 million.

    I know who I’d have.

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  37. toonsy
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 2:10 PM

    I think you need to read my comment @ 54. I never said anyone should put all their eggs in one basket.

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  38. There is the other side of the coin that Ashley seems to be going on – the less spent, the quicker the debt is clear and the sooner “real” spending can happen.

    It’s the ultimate gamble, however, and it would require the squad we have now to survive for about 3 or 4 seasons without major change to “clear” the debts to a level we are happier to open the wallet a bit.

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  39. Gary Cahill, Chunky lee chong and Stuart Holden cost Bolton about £8m.

    Samba and Nelsen cost Blackburn £500k.

    Valencia, Palacios and Figuroa cost Wigan £7m

    Tiote, Benny, Williamson and Simpson cost us about £10m.

    Good players are available for realistic ammounts if you look hard enough…

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  40. toonsy
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM

    Or;

    Rooney – £30m
    Drogba – £24m
    Ferdinand – £30m
    Ronaldo – £80m
    Villa – £30m

    All great buys who have performed well over a period of time for their club.

    Or;

    Paul Koncesky – £3m
    Bebe – £7m
    Obertan – £3m
    Perch – £1m?
    Riveros – £1m

    There’ll be many more too.

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  41. Brisvegas
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 2:18 PM
    Never heard of viral marketing or niche marketing then.

    Absolutely – but when your business gets nice and busy due to this you will have to move and employ.

    Now if you can do that for free, good on you, but you’ll be the only one.

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  42. Eh? My avatar is on statdusts old posts? Impossible. How do I check back and what made you’s look.?

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  43. lesh
    Posted April 15, 2011 at 2:12 PM

    If Shepherd and Hall had given that money to a decent manager who happened to know a good player when he saw one we could have been a global brand now ourselves.

    If it didn’t work for us then it doesn’t mean it just won’t ever work.

    Everytime you invest money it’s a risk – if it had worked we’d be right up there now.

    Blame the managers who wasted it, not the people who sanctioned it.

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  44. For free? Who’s talking about doing things for free? The argument is that it isn’t all about money.

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