Is he as bad as people make out?
Not because of my lack of interest, it is actually one of the most interesting topics to write about as regards Newcastle. I love the passion and insight Ashley brings out in people on both sides of the fence but simply have not had the time to write something detailed and join in the debate as of late.
The last article I posted showed a fraction of the statistical data which could be used to back up the argument for clear progression as a club. For anyone who missed it yesterday it can be found here. For those who did read it I will spare you reading over it all again on this post. Instead I would like to address the ‘cons’ to big Mike outlined by a regular contributor to the site and see how people feel about him since the dust settled from the summer and more recent decisions.
Lets start. The first one is easy. Due diligence. Why fans see this as a con and something to hold against Mike Ashley is beyond me. Of course there have been measures taken as a result to fix the unholy mess which the Shepherd and Hall era left us with but regardless of who took over the club these were necessary measures for survival as a club.
True, if he had done due diligence before buying the club he may well have ran a mile and chosen someone else to invest in, but does that make it a bad decision for the good of the club or in fact one that probably saved us from eventual administration procedures? Did it not in fact save us from becoming a Portsmouth or worse again a Leeds?
In business or club terms, whichever way you are more comfortable looking at it, fact is without that buyout at the time it came in all probability we would have gone under, and if not been forced to sell every asset, including players, possible in order to stay afloat, and with that in turn gone the route of Portsmouth or Leeds and been relegated anyway, maybe never to return to top flight football.
Is it not a good thing to have an owner which wiped clean the debt to the bank, a high interest debt may I add on a club that was incurring £30m+ losses per year as it was, and replaced it with a zero interest loan owed back to Ashley himself with no fixed timeframe or payment schedule on how and when instalments or all of which had to be paid back?
Is it not a good thing in light of financial fair play rules and other intiatives which require football clubs to be run more as a functioning business model to have taken measures, however unpopular they may have been, in order to make the club virtually self-sufficient within five years of taking over?
Sorry but in my humble opinion the man cannot be knocked whatsoever for what he did in the immediate aftermath of buying the club in most if not all measures taken relating to the financial and internal overhaul that has gone on since that time. It is plain as day we are in a better position financially. Brink of meltdown to break-even and virtual self-sufficiency? It`s a no-brainer.
What came soon after he bought the club in footballing terms is what most on the anti-Ashley bus have a problem with, and in fairness there is a certain amount of substance to it. I understand why some do harbour animosity towards him for past mistakes, and would not attempt to deny that he has made some in his time, but when acting as devils advocate to those in opposition you tend to see a logic.
One of the biggest mistakes in fans eyes was the so-called treatment of Kevin Keegan after what people lauded as the second coming. It is difficult to stay rational when countering an argument defending a club legend but fact is the mistake was made in re-appointing Keegan in the first place. For what the owner and club was attempting to do Keegan was the wrong fit for the job.
He is the definitive traditional English manager. He wants to run the club from top to bottom and in modern football this is becoming a rarity and in most cases virtually impossible to do effectively. The only two managers of clubs our size left in England who have this structure and manager power are Arsenal and Manchester United. The reason they do is because their managers have been there long enough.
The modern game and general shelf life of managers does not allow for this power to be given to everyone who takes the seat. You can run a club like this but it will not be successful. There is no long term in mind. The philosophy of manager, squad and club as a whole rides on the shelf life of that manager and when they go so does the philosophy.
The global recognition and commercialisation of the English game and football as a whole has made English clubs have to change how they are run. More often than not there is an awful lot that has to be taken out of the managers hands in order for him to get the best out of the squad itself and sadly there are still a fair few homegrown managers who are stuck in the old way of doing things, Keegan is one of them.
Now there is no doubt that certain decisions made in Keegan’s short second stint with the club could have been better managed but that is not to say they were not the right thing to do in theory, it was the application where the mistake was made.
The appointment of Dennis Wise was the main one. Hate is a term I use with caution. There are not many I would apply it to but Wise is one and it has very little to do with his time at Newcastle.
Look, he cannot be blamed for taking the job. It was an unbelievable opportunity for him and anyone in his position would have jumped at the chance. We found out very quickly he was not up to the job and in fairness, despite general stubbornness on the part of Ashley in spite of fans wishes he promptly got rid. The method in which Wise was appointed was a mistake, note the method, not the role itself. It should have been an appointment in which Keegan was consulted about and approved of.
The role itself however I always thought was something that was needed under the new structure. Derek Llambias is no doubt a more than competent businessman but in terms of knowledge and experience within football he lacks considerable clout. Someone alongside him with this experience is something that, if implemented correctly, would be a definite asset to the club in my opinion.
Again, Dennis Wise was not the right man for the job. His frankly laughable method of scouting and selecting players, the infamous YouTube scout, and more so the clear disapproval of the manager was something that was never going to work out. Keegan should not have been kept in the dark and was sold on some promises that did not materialize. Mistake? Yes. Not right? Maybe.
Where my problem with Keegan’s conduct arises is how quickly he was willing to walk out on on the club he loved. Some say he was right to do so. They may be right but was he right to take the owner to court and look for 20-odd million in compensation? In winning his case taking Ashley, so in turn the club he loved, for 20-odd million? Something does not sit right with me there.
In terms of his capability as a manager upon his return, for me anyway the jury is out. Aside from his initial stint at Newcastle, ‘managerial record and conduct is not the greatest, far from it to be honest. There was no guarantee he would have saved us from what I considered an inevitability in getting relegated, and that in my opinion was something that was coming for a few years before Ashley.
The counter argument to this is that it still happened under him and decisions made such as the appointments of Wise and Kinnear didn’t help matters. Kinnear was brought in as Souness was in his time, as a fighter to try and get a rise out of a squad in awful shape. It is a method used by many a club in trouble in the past, as is appointing a club legend such as Keegan or right before our demise, Shearer.
Keegan and Shearer were appointed not for the squad or their managerial genius but in an attempt to get such a reaction from fans at home that it would rally the troops enough at home to pick enough enough points to survive. It is a technique used by many a club in trouble, sometimes it works, sometimes it goes belly up. We suffered the latter but as I said, it was coming long before then.
Anyway, that argument aside it is clear there were mistakes made in the application of decisions, notably the Dennis Wise one, but I think a more recent decision or appointment has showed that the a football director was and is needed and was in fact a good move for the club. Maybe Football Director is the wrong title for it. How about Football Development Manager. Ring any bells?
Someone who knows football, who knows Newcastle. Someone who has played the game at the top level. Someone who has coached on various levels including youth development. Someone who worked under our current manager and therefore someone who was obviously approved by Alan Pardew. Someone who has been appointed in the right way this time, rectifying mistakes of the past.
I think it’s obvious by now that someone is Peter Beardsley. Not a lot has been said about his new role and it is is something I have tried to figure out since the appointment but the more I look at it the more I see it as precisely the role created for Wise during Keegan’s return. Time will tell whether I am right and whether it is as effective as I think it could be if implemented in the right way but I think it is a good move.
More than that I think it is a good example of what most if not all decisions have been post-relegation. The implementation of a good original plan for the long term being stuck to, tweaked instead of simply abandoned. More so than this it shows that mistakes that were made have and continue to be rectified. It shows an admittance of wrongdoing and a willingness to put it right, not with empty words but with actions, and that is what matters.
Anyway back to the supposed cons outlined by those in opposition. Next up would be relegation. I won`t say much about this. A recent article on this site covered it comprehensively and I would agree that it was coming, is not something that should be pinned on Ashley and was the best thing to happen to the club. It provided the opportunity to overhaul in a way that is virtually impossible while in the Premier League and we are much better off for it.
Since then the most notable grievances among some fans come in terms of player sales and the reinvestment of that money into the team. Lets tackle player sales first. Many went and rightfully so after relegation but we’ve all moved on from them so who are the more recent departures? Kevin Nolan, Joey Barton, Jose Enrique and Andy Carroll.
Big character and captain as he may have been, I had a feeling at the time, as some did, and have been proven right at this stage. Nolan is nowhere near the player he once was and to get £4.5million for him looks to be an unbelievably good bit of business. He is a good Championship player now, no more and would be an absolute liability to us with the high work rate way we play with now.
With that in mind and remembering the words of Pardew when he said that Nolan was looking for a five year deal on money considerably above our new wage structure when in all likelihood he may not even get into the team in a couple of years, I think any remaining stragglers left on the pro-Nolan bus need to admit defeat on this one at least.
As for Joey Barton, much the same. He wanted a five year deal on big money when he might not get into the side in two to three years. On top of that one good season was never a guarantee that he could play that well in the future and what would we be left with? Another Alan Smith only with a bad attitude who we can’t get rid of until his contact runs out? No thanks.
Joey falls under the category of rectifying mistakes of the past in my opinion. A good player but a character that could destroy a dressing room if things are not going his way. We had to cut our losses for the good of the club. Best of luck to the lad. He served us well last season but we have progressed past needing Joey more than he needed us and is not the type of character I would like to see at the club in the future.
Jose Enrique was different in that we had little choice but to sell. He originally promised to sign a new contract if we stayed up and went back on that. He was looking for wages well above the pay grade and above all else wanted to leave for European and international football. With his contract running down to the bare bones we simply had to sell before he went for free.
I liked Enrique as a player and he is the one who has gone I would liked to have held on to but he made the choice not Ashley or anyone else. As it has turned out he is at a club not in Europe with no guarantee of getting there either and in terms of getting into the Spain side, from what I have seen of Jordi Alba it will be a long time before Enrique gets a sniff of that left back spot. All that leaves is move for the money so on that basis not someone we want.
I hate approaching the Andy Carroll argument just because of the price tag. There is no doubt he is a good player and will do well in the future but I think his time at Liverpool has shown there is no way on earth he is worth anything even close to £35million. On that basis alone I think the decision on whether to sell is a pointless argument. Of course you have to sell him for that sum. You would be mad not to.
Where the problem lies with fans as regards Ashley is the reinvestment of that £35m million back into the team. There is a clear division of opinion on what was said about this money. Some believe it was promised to go back into player purchases. Others see it for what it was, clever wording. It was said that this money would be reinvested back into the club, not team, but we’ll put that aside for a minute.
There’s an argument that we haven’t spent a penny of this money. It is ridiculous to think that. I covered it in another article but we have spent approximately £12 million of the Carroll money alone on players and nearly £20 million since last January including the money from other sales. Now although hypothetically this leaves £23 million in the kitty, did anyone actually expect every penny to be spent on players?
I would expect with no more sales to see another £10 million of that money to be spent on players. The other £13million, has and will be used for new contracts to existing players, training facility upgrades, pitch resurfacing and other work, and the remainder if any used for general running costs. This all falls under the plan of making the club self-sufficient as far as I can see and is not a bad thing.
Some may disagree with me on that last one, and maybe as regards all the players we have sold, but to me it seems like there is too much emphasis put on the amount of money spent when it should be on value for money, quality of players signed and improvement of the squad, regardless of personal attachment to certain players. Players come and go but the club is where my love lies.
To replace Nolan, Barton, Enrique and Carroll with Hatem Ben Arfa, Yohan Cabaye, Davide Santon, Demba Ba, Gabriel Obertan, Sylvain Marveaux and Mehdi Abeid is unquestionably, in my opinion, both good business and has made us a better side. If nothing else the results speak for themselves. Individual ability in comparison can maybe be debated but as unit we are better off.
As for how this applies to Ashley, well he is the man signing off on deals and I don`t see any of these decisions to be bad ones. Even if some seen them as such in the immediate aftermath time has shown that maybe fans don`t know best sometimes and more faith should be shown in the project at hand. I couldn’t care less if we spent £35 million or £35 on players once the squad is going in the right direction.
The last resort in this argument is obviously the failure to get a striker in the summer and maybe another defender. I was as annoyed as anyone given I showed faith that we would and it is hard to argue a defence for it other than this. Of the players we were linked with, would it have been a good decision to spend the money being asked for them? Would we have been getting quality and value for money?
As frustrating as it may have been would anybody complain if January or next summer comes and we got the likes of Maiga for a couple of million less than what was asked? If we got EriK Pieters at cut price or even free in the summer? If we unearthed another gem like Tiote or Cabaye for next to nothing?
It requires a lot of faith after a let down at the end of an otherwise great transfer window in the summer but I think our squad and start has surprised everyone including Newcastle fans and maybe afforded us that luxury, and maybe warrants the benefit of the doubt on Mike Ashley’s part.
I think the only other decision made which has not endeared Ashley to the fans is the recent stadium name change. There is not a lot I can say on this one, it’s too soon to tell whether it will benefit us or not but with deals running out soon and a statement of intent to secure deals for both shirts and stadium sponsorship revenue by the new year more can be said at that point.
What I will say is as much as it is not nice to see happen, such is the way of the footballing world these days. Many a club have done it in the past and many more are looking to do it in the future. Sources of revenue are depleting fast these days and clubs have to make money with the new rules coming into effect and like it or not there are very few ways aside form selling big players to make that sort of money.
The way I have chosen to look at it for now is if a deal is struck which guarantees us an extra £10 million per year and in turn means we do not have to sell one of our best players ever summer then I can get over the fact it won`t be officially called St James’ Park any more. After all it will always be known as such by the fans. It has been the Sports Direct @ St James’ Park Stadium for a while now and not once have I heard someone refer to it as that.
Apologies for the length of the post and cheers anyone and everyone who got through it. All of the above is obviously my own opinion and all arguments in opposition are welcome to what I have said. I’m not one to blindly think what I see as true to be indisputable fact but it’s just how I see things and really think Ashley gets it in the neck a bit too much. It’s that little git Llambias I don`t like.
Anyway, as far as any mistakes that have been made in the past go, the way I look at it is the past cannot be taken back and I have no interest in hearing an apology from Ashley or Llambias now. In an ideal world we would all like to wind the clock back and not have made those mistakes, I’m sure Ashley would too, but all animosity aside for anyone who does not like him, fact is he owns the club and probably will do for the foreseeable future.
Is it not time we let events of the past go and give some level of support and benefit of the doubt to Mike Ashley? Trust with caution maybe but trust nonetheless.
Is it not better to have an owner who will make the tough an unpopular decisions rather than someone who will shy away just to keep in the good books of the fans when maybe it might not be what’s best for the club?
Has he in fact, as some say, actually done more harm than good? Or is he an evil genius leading the way in terms of how a club should be run?
As always, all comments and insight appreciated.
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87 Comments
Good article and difficult to argue against, Lets face it the proof of the pudding is the league position, the style of play and the obvious team spirit . Maybe not enough recognition for the manager in the article but it’s definatley happy days at the moment
we spent a net 600K in last window when all the inns and outs are added and subtracted. Not that i am complaining, its great business.
i cant really see much we are doing wrong at the minute but i am sure it will change, most probably in Janaury when we will sell on a top name for top money. And now Puma have signed on for another 2 years it makes me wonder if we will just stay with the sports direct arena?? If we do, that must have been the plan all along as the Puma deal was clearly in the process of being wrapped up at the same time they stripped the name st james from our club. This would then beg the question…….if it is going to stay as sports direct arena……….why change the name at all??? A tax right off from his main income company perhaps? Just to piss off some fans because he can? i dont know and no-one else does i guess. Cum the end of january though we will have a better idea.
For all i do not like ashley it is hard to argue with zero investment in players but still playing great football and at the right end of the table. I hope the still waters last thats all.
Some good points made, most of which I agree with, but there is a lot of revisionism in here, and no genuine attempt to understand the views of those who are anti-Ashley. Instead we have extremely flimsy straw men which are somewhat glibly put down.
It’s clear that the author has his personal views on this, as of course we all do, but it’s a bit disingenuous claiming you’ve genuinely outlined the views of those who are anti-Ashley and addressed them. As I said, we have easily dismissed characatures in their place.
Outstanding article. Probably the most intelligent, forthwrite summary of events over the last few years I`ve read.
No vitriolic rubbish for or against, just clear interpretation of events which I for one completely agree with. Well Done!
Thats some article Keith. Are your fingers raw after typing it out?
One of the things I find is that running this place and listening to others helps me reamain balanced.. I mean I neither love or hate Ashley in general but I do love or hate some of the things he does. Some stuff leaves me fizzing whilst I applaud others kind of thing.
I think the pro and con argument will roll on and will only be sorted when people can look back with the benefit of hindsight to be honest.
Excellent article and pretty much sums up my views. No doubt we will sell players in future either because they want to go or because we get an offer that is too good to turn down (Ronaldo at Man U?). We clearly have a very good scouting team in place and I trust we will continue to buy well to replace them if that happens.
Once the club is making money and climbing the league there comes a point when we must try and hang onto our better players and build on that – the next couple of seasons will show whether Ashley is prepared to do that as we are approaching that position now. That’s not to say we will manage to keep all of them but we are certainly in a much better position to that now than we were.
I’m optimistic about the way the club is being run in general and as the article says Ashley’s mistakes must be recognised and he must learn from them (I think he is showing that he has though the bloke is a maverick so you can never be sure). All in all there is not much I can criticise Ashley for over the last 2 and a half seasons though and he clearly has a plan which he is sticking to (and which appears to be working)
On Llambias he is clearly not a likeable bloke (OK he is a horrible tw*t) but he has been put there to make the difficult financial decisions needed to get the club on a sound footing. He is not however a football man and I think there is a need to balance his hard nosed business approach with someone with a football background. That would give a better balance.
Overall we are in much better shape than we would have been had Shepherd remained in charge and only time will tell whether the 5 year plan will end up being successful. I think it is on track and I am happy to give the benefit of the doubt on that.
@CC #2.. Glad you brought that up because I was a bit vague as to how I came to that figure… difficult to debate money spent when a lot of fees these days are undisclosed but the figure of £600K is definitely not right. Just to show where I got the £12m figure from…
Transfers in that had fees…. Davide Santon – £5m… Gabriel Obertan – £3m… Yohan Cabaye – £5m… So £13million
Transfers out with fees… Jose Enrique – £5.5m… Kevin Nolan – £4.5m… So £10millon recouped.. All in all net spend of £3 million.
Include increased signing fees for free transfers of Sylvain Marveaux, Demba Ba and Mehdi Abeid… A guess but probably another £3m. I know Demba Ba`s signing fee was supposed to be big enough and I presume Marveaux got a good signing fee to take him out of the clutches of Liverpool at the last minute, both were never disclosed though.
Then if the Carroll money, in other words sales from January is to be included then any purchases shoud be also included from that time… Hatem Ben Arfa cost £6m… There`s the £12million net spend after money recouped from Nolan and Enrique has been accounted for.
As I said though, almost impossible to know the real figures when the books are balanced with signing fees, money saved on wages from sales, actual transfer fees etc. I would guess the figure would land nearer £12m than £600K though
I`m with you on the stadium name change, could well be left as Sports Direct Arena or it could be sold for revenue so Ashley does not have to invest any of his own money, too early to tell but by January we should know a lot more.
@JohnT #4 True mate, I can`t accurately express the views of those who are anti-Ashley, quite simply because I have a completely different view on a lot of issues that are held against him as you can see. All I can do is address what I know to be the decisions highlighted as supposed mistakes and give a different view. No intention to belittle or offend, I just don`t understand or agree and if nothing else like to play devils advocate in an attempt to gain some insight into what they genuinely think. Hopefully a couple on the other side of the fence with good insight can counter argue the points. Never know, I might even come to agree!
Cheers for the comments and getting through it lads, ended up much longer than first expected
Haha @5 Yeah mate, blisters and all
must have notched up 10K plus words in the few i`ve put into drafts since last night. Missus isn`t happy and the laptop is close to being chucked out the window, some serious family time needed if i`m to avoid kipping on the couch! 
John @ 3 You are free to put forward any views you like but please don’t make criticisms which have no facts to back up what you say. I am sure you may have some but lets hear them.
Slightly a side issue but I always thought that Keegan was selfish when he walked because it was inevitably going to lead to the sacking of his mate Terry McDermott.
Excellent article and I think it basically puts the major points into perspective about how this club has fared and is faring.
In answer to your question of ,has Ashley done more harm than good, or is an evil genius…I have to say……GENIUS without the evil.
I believe and have always believed that he is here to make this club a success but doing it “his” way and working from a plan of action instead of our pre Ashley usual of, we will deal with that when it happens scenario.
This club is thinking ahead and doing it carefully and sensibly which invariably benefits us as fans and Ashley as owner and businessman.
It can be a marriage made in heaven for those who take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture..
It can also be a marriage in hell for those who refuse to see any good he is doing, or attributing any good to be in spite of him and not because of him.
I got banned from forums for my Pro Ashley stance and also for my views on Keegan, who went down in my estimation for trying to milk the club he professed to dearly love for umpteen millions.
I know I won’t be flavour of the moth in saying that but that’s my honest views as I care about the club..
Messiah’s are great because they only become Messiah’s when they bring a club to life…Keegan did that first time…
Second time round, he was no Messiah, he was out of his depth .
Just my opinion ok lads.
Excellent article.Nobody is being compelled to like Ashley/Lambias but who can deny that we are in a better place than we were, and we are making progress on all fronts – the team,the squad, the manager, facilities, finances, footballing, style. I was anti-Ashley but have been prepared to eat humble pie and accept what he is doing and what he will continue to do. Anyone who persists in Ashley hatred is simply being perverse for the sake of it
Great article and spot on. I wish all fans would take the blinkers off and acknowledge the facts.
totally agree with everything in the article and very good read,im convinced this club of ours ,would have been in SERIOUS financial trouble if ashley had not come in,mistakes have been made along the way,but to turn the club around in such a short time is one hell of an achievment,another point that never gets mentioned, is if ashley was only in it for the money,why does he turn up at the games to watch us? surely a selfish,greedy,robbing billionaire,with no interest in nufc but to make money,could find much better things to do on a saturday afternoon
There is no question we would be in a Portsmouth FC situation if we carried on down the same path Shepherd era took us down…
Say what you want about the current set up, we are currently 4th in the League and almost debt free. Ashley may have aweful interpersonal skills, but his cost cutting has probably ensured the long term survival and success of this club. The relationship between him and the fans is a bit like a parent and child one. Tough love…..
Good article ,agree with most of it – Ashleys made some big mistakes ( he prob thinks buying the club was the main one ) but ultimately we need to be self sufficient given there doesn’t seem to be enough billionaire owners out there who’ll actually throw money at a club
End of the day Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea are still racking up a ton of debt which will eventually catch up with them
In my opinion Ashley wouldn’t be under so much scrutiny and hatred if Keegan wasn’t appointed and left under a cloud.
A lot of fans naturally loved Keegan which is understandable and most were absolutely delighted when he was appointed second time round because it was a classic case of “walking in a Keegan wonderland” or so we all thought.
The reality as we know was far different but regardless of lies told to him or things done that he didn’t approve of, he was still employed to manage the club but chose to basically take a hissy fit and hoy his toys out of the pram.
Two to tango is what springs to mind but the employer takes precedence over the employee in my book.
Anyway, what transpired from all this was an immediate total and utter vile hatred of Ashley, and the total root cause of it was this debacle with our Messiah, who many would have no bad word said against based on what he did for us in the past.
Well, thanks for the past the memories are marvelous but walking out started a hatred that spiralled out of control and very nearly made Ashley up sticks over it all.
I suppose we were all shocked at Keegans departure soon soon into the job, me included and I was also asking WHY?..
After a week or so I stood back and tried to make sense of the situation and as time went on I came to my own conclusion that Keegan had done the classic walk out that had become his trademark, whatever differences he cited, because he always had a reason to leave every job and trying to come out of it smelling of roses.
The fact is, the man is weak when having to deal with the rigors of management and prefers the easy way of buying his way through rather than conditioning the players that he has inherited.
I recall a few players saying that Keegan was out of his depth or something along these lines when he came second time as manager…maybe someone can elaborate on it for me.
I’d like a bit of honesty here from you if you all if you don’t mind…
If Sam Allardyce had walked out of the club citing the same differences as what Keegan done , then Keegan was immediately made new manager, do you think the fans would have been calling Ashley a liar, a cheat, saying they will never trust him again, abusing him at every game?
My personal opinion would be, I very very much doubt a word would be whispered…..WHY?
Because he’s been replaced by the messiah who will bring exciting football to the club in fans eyes….those who dined on his past tenure.
Answer this question as well and do it honestly , total honesty.
If Keegan had went in the same way as he did but Ashley immediately intalled Jose Mourhino in his place with a transfer kitty of £100 million , do you think the fans would have been out in force with banners, or spouting vile hatred at ashley, calling him a liar e.t.c.
My opinion…..I highly doubt it and maybe just a handful would but most of us would be shouting, ahhh well it’s for the good, Keegan would have just bought anyone or whatever…but an excuse would be made and Ashley would be in the clear.
It’s like when you’re a kid and your goldfish snuffs it, you go “awww” sniff sniff “my goldfish is dead, mam, mam, Toby is dead”… Sorry toby I just used you as a name for the goldfish, no offence lol.
Naturally, you are devastated , but if she tells you, she bought you a hamster, it’s “bollocks to Toby, hello Hammy”.
When Hammy dies, it’s ‘oh mam, mam, Hammys died’ …’ah don’t worry son, I’ve bought you a puppy… Wow mam, bollocks to Hammy, hello Wolfie.
Oi you lot, Wolfie doesn’t die in this story , alright hahahaha.
Basically that’s how it went with managers right and all was well.
The opposite of the story is Hammy dying and the mam buying a goldfish as a replacement…….NO NO NO MAMMY you don’t get it do you, naughty mammy, I will tantrum and tantrum until I get a Wolfie…
Ok all I’m saying is, we can be a fickle lot but we can be soothed if we get our own way and god help someone that decides to go against that grain.
By the way, the kid didn’t get his Wolfie, because his dad came home and told him to accept what he’s given as his own choices just made him more bitter when he wasn’t allowed bigger and better.
Can anyone relate to what I’m saying or should I give Eric Cantona a lengthy call.
Don’t call eric he makes even less sense. More or less agree with the article, and Wolfie.
Seems to me most of his mistakes came when he made popularist decisions as opposed to business ones. I think the Dennis Wise appointment came about because he knew him. Personally as a wimbledon man meself I have no problem with him, but aas the article says he was out of his depth.
Your all picking on me ha
Keith this is hands down one of the best articles I have ever read. Being someone who wants to get into sports journalism, this article was fantastic imo. Found it hard to find a counter argument and despite the very lengthy article, I couldn’t just give up on it. Fantasic post and thanks for sharing your opinion
Groucho @ 9
Well, I didn’t want to get in to a point by point rebuttal, because who would want to read that?
For example, obviously bringing Keegan back was a mistake, but I think it’s unfair to criticise him for walking away from a job that was completely different to the one that he was promised; also, as Mike Ashley is a billionaire I don’t think it’s fair to say any money Keegan was awarded would have to be taken from “the club he loves” and to imply that he was lining his pockets at our expense. Also, he was awarded £2M, not £20M
I also think that it’s unfair to characterise a section of supporters as demanding maquee signings at great expense. Obviously it’s great if we can build a team of Bas, Tiotes and Cabayes but it is, in general, true that quality investment costs money. If it was always possible to get amazing players for under £5M then every team would be doing it. Nobody genuinely thinks that NONE of the Carroll money has been spent. What they think is that if the board had shown a little more ambiton, we’d be genuine contenders for a top 6 finish, rather than now having 7th as our highest achievable aim.
Further, I think people worry that even after the debt has been paid off and the club is run at a profit that money will go straight to Ashley, rather than in to the team as investment. Ditto the stadium money.
I think the above feelings are genuine, and not something that can be brushed off in a few lines.
I’ll repeat again that I agree with most of what Ashley’s doing (though not the method), but I think some people are confusing luck with judgement.
There is no way Ashley was certain that our, what, 3rd choice right midfielder would be able to perform as premier league quality left back. Nor could he have known that there would be enough goals in the team without the quality replacement for Carroll that Llambias exressely stated we needed.
He simply gambled, and for now the gamble is paying off. If I sell everything I own, go down to the casino and put it all on red, and win, I’m not suddenly a genius – I’m just a very lucky gambler.
Sorry lads but Keegan was screwed by the fat man and chums, and took him to court to prove that he was a liar. And won. It’s official. KK is a man of principles and no matter what you think of him his love for NUFC is boundless. Some people forget he saved us from a far more perilous position than Fat Mike ever has, and it shames me to see such comments treating him with disdain. Club legend? In my eyes he always will be, but obviously some people forget just what he did for us.
I don’t deny the good Ashley has done for the club, and I’m certainly not disappointed in our progress on the pitch apart from relegation which was totally avoidable. Financially the man is as good a businessman you will find anywhere, and I respect the way he has balanced the books.
One thing I will say is that I will never forgive him for all the lies him and Owlheed have told, and also the way they have treated several club legends like crap. They’ve even made Pardew look a twat on more than one occasion. Even if we won the Champions League or something crazy like that, I will never ever walk in an Ashley wonderland.
If they had just been honest at the start, and not resorted to outright lies and spin I would support them, but after being burned so many times I can’t honestly say I trust them.
I’ve given them their dues for turning the finances around, and now that we have almost balanced the books I sincerely hope Ashley sells and walks out of Toon never to return. Sort of like handshake with no love lost but a grudging respect. I’m delighted with the league position etc, but for me that doesn’t mean I have to like the owner. Which is lucky because I can’t stand him one little bit.
Thanks for the good work Mike, don’t let the Tyne Bridge hit you on your fat arse on the way out.
John T, I disagree with a lot of what you say there mate. don;t get me wrong, not in the having a go at you way, it’s just I have an opinion that differs from what you are basically saying.
I do however agree that a gamble has been took to certain extent but not in a way of gamble everything you own on a 50/50 chance.
Ashley’s a gambler in business and in leisure and the reason he can gamble heavily in leisure is because he gambles very very astutely in business.
To some outsiders, it appears that things have just happened at the club without much thought but I think that’s so wide of the mark that people would probably be shocked to hell if they were given a tour and a summary of everything that has been put into place to get us where we are at “now”.
You mention us being genuine top 6 contenders if we splashed the cash that we didn’t have to splash at the time.
Splashing the cash guarantees you nothing unless you continually splash it until it comes right in the end…..By that time we would probably be in so much debt that we would never become sustainable, which is the key issue here.
You mention that Ashley didn’t know that our third choice midfielder wuld step up, I agree, I suppose no one knew ..but then again, we have to remember that the goal this season was Prem survival, first and foremost and the aim of higher was the bonus upon achieving that….so is it luck, of fantastic ownership and top management…..???
My view is it’s just that.
NorthernPaul, you are entitled to your opinion and if that’s how you feel about Ashley, then I doubt anyone will change your stance on it no matter what.
I will say one thing though..
Regardless of the hate you have for him, it’s better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.
If Ashley sold up and said “ah I’ve had enough, I’ve tried my best and would have succeeded but I’m flogging a dead horse with some fans” and then we get sold on the cheap for his quick exit, only for the new owner to spin us a portsmouth yarn and we go down the swanny…..you can then sit back with a nice wry smile on your face and say….so what I’m just glad Ashley’s gone because I hated him.
On the bright side, you will get cheaper tickets for the future home games against Yoevil town.
Ok let’s be honest, he could give every season ticket holder £1,000 cash back and the majority of us would be waiting for him to do something stupid.
Everytime I think he’s starting to learn he hoes and does something stupid.
Personally I’m delighted with the way things are going but I’m almost convinced that come January or the summer we will sell one or two of our best players and the bad feeling will be back.
I personally think he’s taking his money back and the only way he can do this is by selling players for good money. He’s looking at this as acway of getting out without losing too much money or face. He’s entitled to do it by the way, I just wish he’d tell us he’s doing it and tell us it’s going to have a huge influence on how our ambition in the transfer market and how the club is ran, thAt way everyone could make an educated decision as to how they spend their money.
i agree with every thing northern paul says @ 21
Well we all have many differing opinions about what has happened since Ashley took over.
None of us tho knows the whole truth about all the shenanigans that have gone on, be it lies, transfers, managers, wages, etc.
It has made a lot of us very bitter and distrusting of the owner and his side kick. The lack of communication with the fan base hasn’t helped his cause one jot either.
But there has to come a point at some time where you just have to let it all go. Put it on the back burner and move on.
Seems pointless to keep judging the fella with the past, over and over again. If lessons have been learned from past mistakes, then the proof will come in January,the end of which will be a good time to have another look at the situation at the club.
Can we fend off other clubs from poaching our better players, or are we open to any and all offers???
Will the owner back his manager, who despite all the turmoil and having one hand tied behind his back, is doing a fantastic job with the lads that he has. Can we get our senior pro’s signed up to better/longer contracts. Will we strengthen the squad we have with a few more players in key positions.
This is what I will be judging ashley on. Do we have some ambition to progress or is it just abut making money??
The proof is in the pudding, and the upcoming window will leave us all in no doubt the way the future lies.
DO THE RIGHT THING FOR ONCE MR ASHLEY.
Your all picking on me ha ,
Look iv watched the toon put 5 past manu 3 past barcelona , I have been to marseille milan and many other places watched us in 2 facup finals a uefa semi final and finish 2nd in the league and none of that was under ashley , I find it difficult to deal with peaple focusing on the last 20 games and not the last 3 years ! And telling me toforget and trust time after time , and that’s negative comments .
I am a football fan who supports newcastle united and who understands how important the club is to the whole city and I can honestly say that excluding the last 20 games most of ashleys tome here has been awfull on the pitch .
If this is all ashleys master plan and we are about to reap the rewards then I will come on here and tuck into a huge slice of humble pie in return though if he continues to sell our better players and none of that money is reinvested in players and if the money of the name change is not forthcoming then i will expect you lot to tuck in instead .
I enjoyed the championship a lot but fear we could visit it again if we continue to sell our better players ,
I want to know why football fans started to take so much interest in finances ! If tiote goes is that ok ! And colo ! Its not all about spending money but likewise this form can’t continue if we sell the spine of our team .
Definatly more cons than pros thus far.
Wolfie@23
I know what you’re saying mate, and I did say I respect the way he has turned the clubs finances around.
You could also say that an owner may come in and take down all the SD signs and rename the ground back to something traditional. You could say a lot of things, but please don’t suggest that I would wallow in glory if it all went to crap.
I support NUFC, and unfortunately I feel that the bloke that owns it has no connection to it, and no respect for its tradition or fans. I feel that we will have no more legends, and that any player that we get attached to will be sold within a few seasons if they are valuable enough.
When we break even, will the money the fans put into the club actually be used to invest in the squad? I would say no. They would say yes, but would they be telling lies again?
Would it be a fair trade off if we won the League, but to do it the club had to be renamed Sports Direct United, and play at Sports Direct Arena, in Sports Direct coloured shirts? Is that maybe going to far? I hope Mr Ashley doesn’t read this post, and that tells you my opinion. He would sell his kids to make a few bob.
It’s a conundrum, the team is doing well, but how much is the very identity of the club worth? To me it’s our identity and fans that make us great. We’re losing our identity, and the fans are totally split.
I’m probably talking bollocks, but I really struggle to put into words the emotional side of it. It’s as if the club is being used as an object by someone who doesn’t care about it, and we don’t yet know if they are willing to put as much into it as we have all our lives. I suspect not.
No wry smiles from me mate, just a total lack of trust in our owner and I know he will stop at nothing to get what he wants. I think Ashley is stuck with NUFC and doesn’t want to lose any money from it. Thats all. Nothing more to it, he doesn’t give a crap about it otherwise.
Keith…Equally we cannot live on the past but we can have it as canny memories.
We cannot use the past as a yardstick for the future either because everything about the game has changed in terms of rich owners willing to bankroll without a care in the world (for now).
We cannot follow a Sir John Hall blueprint of messiah’s and money to push this club to the dizzy heights because we are playing against bigger hitters than ourselves.
Not even Man Utd could match Sir John Halls spending power at the time, in-fact no English club could. But his spending nearly crippled him.
Memories are just that and so are idols.
We now create our own memories for the future , starting from the present with our own idols made out of sensible spending.
It’s a blueprint for the future though and not a quick fix for the present that cannot be sustained.
Wolfie , your not for real if ashley walks away or sells that’s the end of nufc and of to youvil town we go no no no nufc will be here and big long after he has left , he’s just a bad owner who doesent understand football he’s not the messiah .
Well said bb
Well said northern
Sanity atlast .
good article Keith.
My view with the managers he brought in is they were cheap and they were amazed to even get an interview. Ashley told them from the off he was the boss and when he barks his orders, the managers chosen must act. Apart from KK who was brought to appeal to foreign investors when Ashley wanted out.
I think we got lucky with Pardew who has come on massively under Ashley, but Pards still knows ‘who’s the boss’.
He has made some huge errors, mainly Wise, relegation and Llambias but without Llambias we mightn’t be where we are now?
I’m willing to give MA some slack and even credit him with some good work because we’re now in a much healthier position than I thought we’d ever be, on and off the field.
My only gripe would be that we continue to sell our best players for huge fees, and ppl will use the ‘u can’t stop a player wanting out’ line. Well ppl like tiote signed a huge contract that was suppossed to be part of the 35mil off Carrolls sale and said he’s content here. Fair enough, maybe Jan or the summer we’ll lose one or two but not every season.
We need to establish a decent team and start challenging for the top spots. thats why I watch football, thats all I’m bothered about.
Broke down in tears watching this about Gary Speed……………….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdXc7oKFMlc&NR=1
If we continue this form or win something or hold on to our better players and continue with car scouting that is progress , if we continue to sell our better players for financial gain to ashley and no concern of replacements and our form plumets and we win nothing then that is bad for the club !
Do you agree !
Cheers for the comments lads. Just in from footie so just going through them now. Apologies on the Keegan figure. I originally had it as £10m based on damages and remaining salary to be paid but Toonsy changed it to £20m. Will have to ask him where he got that figure from. I think it might be based on the following…
Announcing its decision, the panel said in a statement: “We declare that Kevin Keegan was constructively dismissed by Newcastle United Football Club Ltd, for which Newcastle United Football Club Ltd must pay to Kevin Keegan damages in the sum of £2 million plus interest to be assessed if not agreed.”
Despite losing the case, the level of damages will come as a relief to owner Mike Ashley after it was confirmed that Keegan was claiming in excess of £25m. He claimed £8.6m in salary and other benefits to which he would have been entitled had he seen out the remaining years of his contract, which was due to expire in June 2011, and a further £16.5m in “stigma damages” in compensation for the effect of the saga on his future earning capacity.
As for what I said about him taking it out of Ashley and so in turn the club, of course it is. He was employed by Newcastle Utd. He sued the owner of the club so any damages come from that company/business/club whatever tag you want to put on it. If he was employed by Sports Direct he would still be sueing Ashley but also SD. He did not sue Mike Ashley on a personal issue outside employment over something such as defamation of character to use an example, he sued his former employer so in turn Newcastle.
I love Keegan for what he did in his first term as manager and for that he is a legend but it is tainted in my opinion by the return and all that came with it.
Brings up a question though. Not saying what people such as Keegan say is not true but do you not think it is very easy to fashion public opinion or promote your version of the truth when dealing with someone who never speaks publicly? As BB said, I don`t think anyone knows or ever will the real truth behind some issues in the past but I do think it is silly to presume everyone is squeaky clean but Ashley.
exactly wolfie,ashley is planning ahead,no way on gods, earth can we compete with,the citys,man utds, and chelsea’s, of the world at the moment but as i said in a previous thread, these teams, along with tottenham and liverpool are walking a fine line, because champions league money is going to be a neccessity to them,to cover theyr’e running costs,whereas we have taken the arsenal route,and as things currently stand, apart, from man city we aren’t too far off these other teams at the moment,we have successfully tapped into the market in france,[arsenal for the first time in years didnt have a frenchman playing at the weekend],so suffice to say a lot of decent players in that country will be tempted to join us.What other teams have brought players over from france this season?not many,and as for ashley selling carroll for, a ridiculous sum of money,did the previous board not break up, what was probably the best strike force in europe when they sold les ferdinand,the board before them sold,beardsley,waddle,and gascoine,so newcastle being a selling club hasn’t just started under ashley,in fact, when the break even target is reached, i honestly think he will invest a lot more on players.So lets give him a couple of years to see if these plans come to fruition,
“Would it be a fair trade off if we won the League, but to do it the club had to be renamed Sports Direct United, and play at Sports Direct Arena, in Sports Direct coloured shirts? Is that maybe going to far? I hope Mr Ashley doesn’t read this post, and that tells you my opinion. He would sell his kids to make a few bob.”
I’m sorry but this is hysterical hypothetical pointless bullshit. simples.
also
“To me it’s our identity and fans that make us great. We’re losing our identity, ”
No we’re not. But the game is changing, modernising, moving on into the 21st century. If you hadn’t noticed, we no longer play with long baggy shorts, and hob nailed boots, whilst kicking an old leather laced up medicine ball ffs.
Or would you prefer that we still were, for the sake of our history, our herritage. Come on man get a grip.
To all NUFC fans, it will always be St James’ Park. He cant change how we think of it. But if he can raise much needed cash by selling off naming rights, and its to the benefit of the club, then so be it for me.
Do you object so profusely to the shirt sponsor being slapped bang in the middle of the “famous black and white stripes”. No of course you dont. But why’s it there? simple, to raise money. No other reason.
It is clear to me that eventually ALL clubs will end up this way. Perhaps we should embrace it for what it is (or could be).
I dont think it alters our identity one jot.
keegan, for all I loved the man did tarnish his reputation with me because he tried to take Ashley to the cleaners, which effectively is Newcastle.
If its true that Keegan was brought in to appease the Arab would-be-buyers, perhaps when that deal fell thru keegan and Ashley knew it was never gonna work. Keegan is a man of principles, he’s never going to run a club on a shoestring after being promised riches from new-found investors. both were looking for a way out in my eyes, shame it ended up messy.
@Beardsleys Boots
tbh i’m not fussed about the naming rights. 10mil is a lot of money IF invested back into the team or club.
We have 52k fans, a cheap team on low wages. surely we don’t have to keep selling.
I think by Jan 2013 we should know MA’s intensions. we should be an established, tight-knitt team by then ready to challenge for everything.
BB@37
‘I’m sorry but this is hysterical hypothetical pointless bullshit. simples.’
I knew that comment would get a bite. It was actually a question, and I’d be interested to hear your answer.
woo hoo hoo hoo.
“We need to establish a decent team and start challenging for the top spots. thats why I watch football, thats all I’m bothered about.”
exfuckingzactly.
tbh I’m sick to death of all the non football bullshit. Thats why I am enjoying this season so much already. Just love going to the ground for a change, for the original reason I ever went, watching the lads put in a shift on the park, busting their nuts to get a result, whilst singing me heart out.
Hopefully we can have a period of stability at the club for the forseeable future, and only be in the press for the right reasons.
Howay the Lads.
NP – it wont happen.
I may be deluded, but I firmly believe that. Thats my answer.
so chelsea got beat again tonight by the bindippers
Despite Judas missing a pen
Most of their ‘A’ team was rested tho.
Cant wait to stick it up em on saturday. Come on.
Why did we sign Demba Ba? Becasue Derek is Lamb-bias.
BB@42
That was a truly great comeback.
I’ll take that as you don’t care about tradition or history or the way football is all about money these days. After all it’s not played with medicine balls, and baggy shorts and all that. How far does it go?
It’ll be interesting to see what happens now that we’ve broken even where all this sponsorship money actually gets invested.
R@44
when ashley starts investing in the first team then it MIGHT be the time to start backing him,but if he wants to sell all our best players every season to turn a profit then he can go fk himself(unless its judas money) coz we will go nowhere.
theres only so many cheapos that you can uncover
I think we all agree with that Hitman..This January is the litmus test.
Like I sed, we’ll all know where we stand come Jan 31st.
NP – you aren’t making sense to me. Where did I say I dont care about our history or tradition? Everything changes over time, we dont live in the past. Its all about progress, moving with the times. Thats all I’m saying.
Our history is recorded in Black & White. NOTHING Ashley does today will change that.
Great article mate. Good solid points.
What ashley did when he 1st came to the club pumping his own money in was fantastic. We could be the next leeds or bradford or portsmouth without ashley.
By the way i hope a top 5 club win the league cup this season. Means 6th spot and maybe 7th depending on fa cup finalists will be in europa leauge next year
January isint the test for me. Where we end this season is, if we get a top 10 finish then i will be happy. Forget january, if we sign some players then great, if we get a big money offer for our players then sell them. Great, but where we end up in the big test, as a club we want to keep going forward every year and under ashley and pardrew that looks pretty strong.
Keith you make a lot of good points but a few I disagree with,
I can never understand why people claim that we would have done a Portsmouth as if it was a stone cold Fact, I do not believe we would have folded, I would go as far as to say that we would never have had to suffer relegation.
We owed what £110 mil ? or round that figure, what do we owe Jabba £160 mil ? now and for the privledge we have sold our soul. I do believe that on top of selling players , we have sold the SJP name and that to me is the one thing that should not have been sold, I honestly think that some of our Fans wouldn’t care if we changed our colours or stripes.
I am a strong believer in that you can watch a thief but you can’t watch a liar, and I will go out of my way to not deal with Liars because I think trust is a very important quality.
” if we get a big money offer for our players then sell them. Great”
that wouldnt be ideal for me tbh.. G Carr isnt mistic meg, the only scout that knows the hidden gems. These players he’s spotted are known to other clubs, we’ve just been the ones thats took a gamble and bought them.
If other clubs start doing the same then the magic rubs off.
These type of players won’t continue to bankroll MA. we need to start keeping a hold of them and make them into Geordie heros.
I can’t believe ppl would be happy to keep selling for the sake of money, what about success?
mark -”what about success?”
Traditionally we dont have any/much lol. wouldn’t want to mess with tradition now, what would people say???
It’s interesting that you say. ‘what side of the fence’ people are on, regards Ashley. I would say at the moment my stance is largely neutral. I like the shrewd signings and direction the club is going but I dislike some of his tactics. I think the fact that he never says anything doesn’t help his cause. He has a responsiblity to at least say something every now and again in public and I would disagree that only the manager and chairman should ever talk. I have only heard Lambias talk once anyway I think.
@bb lol thats tru.
Keep adding to this team tho m8 and retain a few of the ‘gems’, success could be around the corner.
Even if £25mill came in for Krul I’d happily turn it down. He’s probably gave us 12+ pts this season already with his saves.
Interesting article that
Can I throw something into the ring? Does Ashley really want to destroy the club he bought and spent so much money on? Really? Is he that stupid?
Or is he a very clever business man and brings the club to its peak financial position most possible assets within the playing squad and highest number of season tickets holders top class scouting facilities and then sells to the highest bidder?
BB tradition isn’t really a big deal with a lot of the fans.
We have been lucky that the new players have bedded in so quick, but if we have to keep doing the samething every year ie having to sell our better players and replace them somewhere along the line we won’t be as lucky.
I didn’t hear too many people complaining about wor history and tradition when SJP was redeveloped from the piss pit it had become in the 50′s, 60′s and 70′s. into what it is today. I;m sure none of us would like to go back to the way it was.
No, it was seen as progress, even tho we lost the old scoreboard at the top of the gallowgate. Yet we are hung up on a name change, which can also be seen as progress from a financial point of view.
Its just a technicality in the end. When the sponsorship money dries up some time in the future, it will once again revert to St James’ Park, because that is what it is.
Meh ! its no biggy to me, and its going to happen one way or another no matter how much people tick and whinge about it.
shit…. drunk on a school night
Mark – I’m more worried about losing Tim Krul, than any other player.
imo he is that good at the minute that I can see L’pool or even a spanish team coming after him with stoopid money. He isn’t that easy to replace either.
No offence to Rob Elliott, but he’s no where near as good.
If Krul goes I will be soooo gutted, and angry.
all these ifs and buts about who we are selling ,its pure speculation, lets all wait and see what happens.We have a better team now, than we have had for a lot of seasons.Can people not see that the players we have sold / got rid of, in the past couple of years have been replaced by a far better class of player,[apart from enrique who left purely for the money] we are improving every season and becoming financially secure.What more can we as fans ask for?
BB – I remember when we were planning to move to a new stadium. history and tradition didn’t matter then either, aside from one moaning bint who campaigned (and won) against it
I would sell Tiote for £25 Million or more. Nothing less. For sure. To get sucess sometimes you have to sell players to get money to spend on other players.
Krul would be very hard to replace. Its hard to replace your keeper, he has been fantastic for us as well. And goalkeepers never get sold for much either so theres no point. Unless its carroll money again but no team would ever spend £35 million on a goalkeeper, it just doesnt happen.
Good article. A bit revisionist and slanted heavily towards justifying Ashley’s PoV, but a good read. Pity it doesn’t address the underlying problem : lying to the fans, playing tricky word games about 35m notes, disregard for traditional supporters, his awful public relations, those ambiguous press releases.
Until Ashley pulls a shirt on and actually plays some football, I don’t see how the current position in the table has anything at all to do with him.
But I agree he has done some very good things with regard to finances and organisation at the club. I can forgive him mistakes; we all make them.
Nice one Keith – basically agree with you ……. Once Hitman comes round my job will be done and you have assisted in moving us one step closer to that dream ………. We r nearly there.
See Barton has come out complaining about the bonus scheme – just another indication of how spoilt these footballers are …. Said before but MA is revolutionising the way wages + contracts are negotiated + it’s putting the power back in the hands of the boss + the fans who pay their cash. If a player does well + performs he gets his bonuses, if he/the team don’t perform then they ont get the extra cash. Good. Come on Hitman come over to the dark side …..
Brisvegas
November 30, 2011 at 00:04
‘Until Ashley pulls a shirt on and actually plays some football, I don’t see how the current position in the table has anything at all to do with him.’
Surely it has something to do with it being his manager, and therefore coaches and staff. His player signings that he sanctioned, (such as Ba, Cabaye, Collocini, Obertan, Ben Arfa, Tiote) and the fact that he has a much better scouting team and is improving the training ground ect. I’m no Ashley fan but its a tad bias don’t you think to claim that he has f all to do with the current success.
no
[Quote] “It’s the longest podcast ever, but this is what happens when you let Joey Barton get in more than 140 characters. From his opening words of tribute on Gary Speed to his hatred of reality TV there is barely an area that the man misguidedly labelled by the media as football’s bad boy doesn’t cover; evolution, Twitter, judgement, space, abuse, materialism, perceived reality.”
http://soundcloud.com/playbackmedia/the-joey-barton-special
(73 mins)
If you don’t want to listen to the whole thing, the juicy NUFC related stuff begins at 28 mins into the podcast
Ok big dave idont agree about going under but yes I think the lies ans selling players will continue .However no one replied to my post at 34come on wolfie and the rest agree or not ?
hitman 47
brisvegas 65
Spot on,
Liam 56 yes he cares about his asset and wants to make lots of cash from it but that does not mean the team will do well !
We are football fans yeh !
djg@68,
Its not bias our good form is a short run of games and he has been here for 3 years , if our form continues and we stop selling our most talented players for the sole aim of ashley getting ritcher then i will take my hat of to him .
However if he continues to sell our most talented players and none of the money goes back into the first team will you say boo ashley your a bad bad man who doesent care about football or will you just say where not in a position to spend yet or its all part of the master plan or we had to sell at that price blah !!
Keith, in reply to 34.
Naturally if we sold our best players for profit only and replaced with sub standard players then naturally we would plummet like an elevator with a snapped cable and broken brakes from the top of the Eiffel tower. I just thought I’d make it a bit dramatic.
Obviously if we carry on in the vein we are, we can only go from strength to strength, like having a brand new twice as thick cable and double brakes installed into a new elevator in the Eiffel tower that can carry it to the top without a hitch….
I thought I’d make this bit less dramatic.
To be honest though and based on my own opinion, I cannot see Mike Ashley putting all the right foundations in place as he has done with the management/coaching staff, the finances, the scouts and training facilities e.t.c into place just so he can gain what he’s owed and walk away.
The man is not just an astute businessman, I believe he has a love for this club in his own way and wants to see this club become successful for him, the fans and for the greater good of everyone associated with the club.
He also will use it as a piggy back to extend his other business ventures as well, which is entirely natural and something that any businessman would do, including yourselves.
Only a Newcastle fan would go against me saying this because they would come out with,” no I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t use the ground as an advertising den for my business, or I wouldn’t change the naming of the stadium.”
The truth of the matter is, for you not to do that, you would be letting your heart rule your head, which in business terms means you would have no forward thinking and would go backwards.
The issue with the club in any way shape of form isn’t about advertising or buying cheap and selling big, or renaming rights…it’s simply the hatred for Ashley that creates all this fuss.
We have to focus on what benefits this club no matter how it’s done or what it takes and the best people to judge that are in and around the club.
We as fans can harp on all day and night over any change that doesn’t fit our own criteria but we are only doing it because we think of history, memories, think with our hearts and so on.
Rational thoughts go out of the window with some fans over Ashley no matter what he does.
People go on about honesty, trust and him finding ways to piss off the fans no matter what he attempts to do.
The fact is most of what he’s done of late has been bang on and no one can really deny this.
The advertising isn’t really a concern is it, as long as the club is ship shape which it is.
Some fans distrust in Ashley goes way beyond rational as far as I’m concerned because they pick out anything no matter how small and turn it into a fiasco.
How many times have we been on the verge of selling Jonas and other players like Tiote only for nothing to happen.
It’s started again and speculation gets the better of some fans believing that, this time ,so and so will go and he will go, then him, oh and he ‘s gone as well and oh we won’t have cover because Ashley won;t spend more than 2 million/3 million or whatever.
It’s absolute pure and utter speculation based on the hatred of Ashley.
I hear fans say “oh I’ll never trust him again” and” Llambias can only run casinos” and “Pardew is only here to pay off his gambling debts.”
The point is, whether you trust him or don’t trust him it doesn’t matter….WHY?
Because the club will run exactly the same way whichever you choose and if you boycott the game or throw your season ticket in the bin for whatever your next excuse is, then you are cutting your own nose off to spite your face and doing nothing to hurt Ashley.
I’ll put this to any fan and see if you can answer this question honestly…
Imagine you went into a coma and this coma started the day Sam Allardyce was sacked and then you woke up this very day and asked about the team and you were told that we are in 4th place after 13 games with some quality french players e.t.c, then you were told that it’s been rocky cos we had Keegan but he walked out over some lies and what not and Pardew is doing fantastic and the ship is steady.
Even if you were told everything that happened, you would be cock a hoop at our position and never quite believing it wouldn’t you….or would you?
By the way, just to clarify this, I’m not having a direct pop at anyone on here I’m basically just generalizing and it’s not meant to spark riots alright.
KrToon – this is the best article I have read on here for months by a country mile. Well done, Sir!
#75 cheers mate, appreciate it
I found it quite harsh tbh
haha lucky you got to the Joseph story before me so
Wolfie @74 ,
That’s a yes then !
I only try to look at the facts, your painting anyone who doesent like ashley for what he has done or Is doing as being a paranoid lunatic fixed on hatred for no other reason than he’s a cockney ! Well that’s just not true and I could say the same about you lot just agree with every thing he does to be “different” its exactly the same !
Ill always support the toon and if that makes me a “negger” he he then so be it .
I hope all goes well for a long time to come on the pitch , but hope and reality are two very different things .
At least you kind of answered the question , but you sure do go on like.
I’m a Toon fan from far, far away where the underlying traditions of NUFC have eluded all but the handful of us who are truly passionate about NUFC. I think that makes many overseas fans focus more on the footy at hand. When we win, we cheer and get rowdy. When we lose, we moan and get rowdy.
As a long suffering fan, I strongly, strongly agree with your article, Keith.
I’m not bashing anyone’s opinion but objectively, MA could easily be the best thing to happen to us in recent times. I’m no MA fan, but as someone who loves United, we’re almost debt-free and riding high so far this season. Method might be questionable but it’s worked so far. Quoting Keith, if I may, “cautious trust, but trust nevertheless”.
I was totally against his selling policy. I threw a tantrum each time when Nolan, Barton & Carroll was sold (Enrique, as good as he is, was a money-grabbing sod), but today I don’t miss them. Instead I’m trying to look forward. Of course, if they sold Tiote, I’ll definitely throw another fit.
I hate Wise, and I still love KK regardless, and I don’t think either of them could have done us any good AT THE TIME.
I’ll never refer to SJP as anything but. I mouthed off a total stranger the other day for calling it some strange name which was not SJP. That being said, I don’t care what they do with the signs if it bring in good good money which benefits the club.
I probably have a little more to say, but I’ve said too much already. Apologies.
Welcome to your opinion dom , that’s what its all about .
My attitude is simple trust is earned not given if he stops selling our better players or we scout good players for nowt every season then great .
If he continues to sell then my opinion won’t change its all about the football for me not business acumen or masterplans or any of that bollocks , just football , but I have a large feeling that if it does get worse and deteriorate more excuses will be made and more goalposts moved and it upsets me that people defend him becaue they think its funny or cool .
+1 mate.
Glad to start participating in this Forum.
Welcome aboard Dom
@Toonsy: Does that mean I’m in your clique?
Dom –
@NUFCLINKS
What a brilliant article, full of in my opinion decent arguments, and i love your new website, it will be one of my regular daily visits
@10 I am with you on the used to be anti-ashley and eating humble pie. Iv’e been anti-ashley since he arrived but over the last 2 seasons ive totally changed my views.
1st relegation broke my heart but now I can see that even if his plan was to get us relegated which i very much doubt it was would have been a good thing. We’ve cleared the deadwood and bought very good players for peanuts. Were sitting in a decent position in the league and the team is together again.
2nd I applaud him for sticking to his guns and not just throwing millions wastefully on has-beens “Owen”.
My only beef is the way he handles things, when ever there is an uproar he just lets us simmer and doesn’t give us an explanation which just fuels the anti-ashley in us.
His decision to AC for £35m even though the fans didn’t want to sell him was an offer that could not be refused, personally I would have took £20 for Carroll.
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