What makes a big club?
So I thought I’d have a go at thinking about what makes a big club. What makes a big club club in any case? And has the definition of a big club been clouded by the sudden influx of money into the modern game? I’ve decided to stick to the Premier League for now in an attempt to try and work this out.
Personally I think that money talks so I thought of a few criteria to go along with it. The first one is global brand recognition. This important because it adds to the value of the club, and reflects what it says on the tin. These figures reflect the clubs worldwide fan base. These figures were posted recently and discussed so I’ll keep short and sweet.
Manchester United are in a league of their own with a “brand value” estimated at £853m, and recent signing Kagawa won’t harm that as they look to bolster their reputation in the vast Far Eastern market.
Then there are three clubs between £350m and £400m Chelsea, Arsenal and then Liverpool. I think Liverpool are dropping down and may well have trouble holding onto 4th with Manchester City moving rapidly up to just over £300m. There is then a gap to Spurs at just over £200m
Finally we get down to Aston Villa and Newcastle who apparently have a “brand value” of nearly £90m each.
This sort of explains why pre-season tours are arranged to grow our global presence. Of course the other factor here is recent success.
I’m looking at both the short term and medium term here. The Premier league table aggregated over the last 20 years shows that again Manchester United are in a class of their own with 1663 points. Then we have Arsenal with 1449, Chelsea with 1402, Liverpool with 1334 then a gap to Villa who have 1089 points, Spurs with 1086, Everton with 1034 and Newcastle with 1017. With Blackburn dropping out there is a gap down to City with 784 points.
Looking at the last two years Manchester United have managed 169pts, City 160, Arsenal 138, Chelsea 135, Spurs 131, Then Newcastle on 111. Liverpool and Everton are on 110 with Fulham the only other club managing over 100 points.
Looking at appearances in Europe it is clear how the top of the Premier League has been dominated by a handful of clubs, with only the Europa League providing the rest with a chance to showcase their talents in Europe.
I think it is interesting to look at stadium size and local fanbase. The stadiums were built at a time of relative success for the team otherwise they could not have afforded to do so and the size gives an idea of how much local support is expected. Only three clubs have ground capacity exceeding 50,000 and that is Manchester United (75,811) Arsenal (60,361) and Newcastle (52,387). Then we have clubs with 40k+ in descending order, Sunderland, Manchester City, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Chelsea and Everton.
Lastly I thought I’d have a look at turnover and owners. After all in “soccernomics” there is a correlation between the clubs wage bill and it’s success. There being a much lower correlation between squad cost and success.
Under the new Fair Play rules the idea is to limit the wage bill to ensure that it is controlled by turnover rather than how deep the owners pockets are, but how successful that is going to be is open to debate. Also turnover is again heavily dependant upon success. Champions League football is worth say £40m per year. So gaining success and then planning for it to continue is fatal, ask Leeds or Portsmouth.
It is clear that owners are willing to gamble with success, but not many can afford to do so. American ownership does not look to do so it appears.
So where does that leave us. The Manchester clubs look secure. United, despite their debt, have a massive global brand, and turnover to support their business model, whilst City have very deep pockets and are looking like they will have the prolonged success necessary to avoid the pitfalls of overreaching themselves. Arsenal and Chelsea have the potential to remain big clubs, especially if Chelsea build a new stadium. Spurs and Liverpool are at a crux. Neither have the stadiums, and both would be vulnerable to lack of success. Neither have owners with deep pockets and both could see their global brand falling. Villa have already fallen and unless their new manager can turn them round they will have a long way back up. The two North Eastern clubs both have tremendous potential, but the odd successful season here of there is not enough to break them into the super club level.
Unfortunately it looks as if the Champions League places are Manchester United’s, Manchester City’s, Chelsea’s and Arsenal’s to lose. Much as Spurs and Liverpool would like to see themselves as one of the big four they do not have the resources to shift them and unless their business model is based on Europa League football they are putting themselves in danger. Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland and Everton are all big clubs however none of them have the global brands, the finances or the current success to build on.
A few years of cup runs and maybe the Europa League could provide the momentum to change that and Newcastle have promised much in the last season. But Even a few years of success will not establish you, as Sir Bobby Robson found out to his cost.
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one good season doesnt make newcastle a big club, if Liverpool came in with serious bid for any newcastle player they would sign in an instant
Good read Premandup. It is worrying that even though we seem to be progressing as a team the last couple of seasons, that we are falling behind the rest due to our relegation and championship campaign, with teams like Villa seen as equals in brand value.
We need to have a few pre-season tour’s over to the far east and countries where we are unknown to perhaps gain a lil interest and support and further increase our ‘global image’.
A clubs history is what makes you a big club something which newcastle hasn’t got.all newcastle have is a good ground!
Im struggling to understand this obsession with ‘what is a big club?’….
Liverpool have been on the decine for years and I’m not sure they’ll ever be the classed as a top four side for a long time, Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal all have the resources to stay top four with Spurs, Villa, Liverpool all hoping to gran 4th spot at best, think we’re in the mix with those 3
The only reason history is all that matters to you Karl is that’s the only thing you have to justify Villa’s big club status. And you don’t have much of that…
a big cub is same as any business, its defined by cash turnover and profit, which in turn is gained by success on the pitch – history won’t buy you players or gain you new fans
I’d say Newcastle ate one of the smallest in the prem. Big stadium but very fans outside Newcastle. Never met a Newcastle fan!
richietoon, from previous thread,
I was just pointing out that what he stated has so far bin correct, he did say we were in for a dutch international who was in the 28 man squad,
But yeah demba hasnt gone……. yet anyway.
But he has got more right than any one else for example @cwarr of twitter or the journalists who are apparantly in the know.
What makes a big club is history, world-wide fan base and the media interest the club generates. South of gateshead no one cares about NUFC For exampole when ManU were relegated in the early 70′s nobody in their right mind would say they were a smaller club than Soton or Ipswich just because they were in the division above them. The same is true with NUFC and Lpool. You may have put in a better league performance last year but nobody can assume that makes you as big a club. Dont forget in your best season for a long time you won nothing and qualified for the Europa league. We in our worst season for many a year won the carling Cup, got to the FA Cup final and qualified for the Europa league. Next year we will improve your season is a flash in the pan. Thats how it is! Do you honestly believe that when “bigger” cluibs come knocking for the likes Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa they will stay at NUFC
Great article.
I can only speak from an LFC point of view, but I believe that things are on the up from a financial and Global brand point of view.
FSG bought Liverpool as they realised there’s more money to be made from football than American sports due to its Global appeal. They are making moves in South East Asia and the US to promote Liverpool FC and increase the fan base.
LFC have the 4th higher shirt sales Worldwide and the new kit deal with Warrior Sports is one of the (if not, the) largest shirt deals in football history. On top of that, the sponsorship deal with Standard Chartered is the largest in Premier League history.
On the pitch however is a different story. I think finishing 5th or 6th and having a decent head-to-head record with other big clubs (which we always tend to do) would suffice as far as the manager keeping his job and getting more cash in the coffers for the following season is concerned
But in the long scheme of it the Champions League has to be the Holy Grail for increasing the fan base Worldwide and attracting the calibre of player and the ‘big name’ signings.
Spurs seem to be struggling financially at the moment and with Man City paying half of Adebeyor’s wages last season, would have probably struggled without him.
FSG have shown they are not afraid to splash the cash, although I think they will be a lot more cautious about it now, and I think that in Brendan Rodgers they have opted for a manager that can deliver a style of football (Tiki Taka) that will appeal Globally (like Barcelona), but I believe serious squad restructuring is needed over the next couple of years to do so.
Don’t worry about the mighty reds boys still remain the most successful club in British footballing history
Witters, I think that’s why I wrote this piece.
Great read at the start but then you seem to fall short when you start to realise that you are backing the idea that a club such as liverpool is actually a bigger club than most despite their recent downfalls. Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Good look at what makes a big club with alot of interesting lines of thought . As a sixty years old Villa supporter I would just like to add that although all the criteria above are relevant and important, circumstances also play a part. What I mean by that is I have seen lots of clubs that are ‘big clubs’ at certain times for instance; I can remember when Man U and Liverpool were not big at all winning nothing between them prior to the sixties and Wolves and Leeds were viewed as big teams. Prior to that (even before my time) Huddersfield and Charlton were ‘big teams’. It just goes to show that ‘big teams’ come and go and even Man U and Chelsea will not always be ‘big teams’.
GP… i think you are just trying to fool yourself. You had a shocker of a season and everyone knows it.. hence your manager sacked and ours won LMA managers award. We may have over acheived but my god you lot failed in spectacular fashion.
I dont see any newcastle player wanting to go to liverpool, unless Simpson etc who is being sold off anyway. Our main guys would prob go to any of the only big top four in UK, man utd, man city, arse or chelsea. All other teams are way below these. I think that we are neck and neck with the spuds, i think that liverpool are slightly behind us along with everton. The rest make up the remaining slots in some order.
The only question is if we can maintain a steady ship and aim for top 6 next season. It would be good but as with all things newcastle, we are only ever one sale awat from a disaster and all rats jumping ship!
my prediction for vnext season..
Chelski
man utd
man city
arse
spuds
newcastle
liverpool
everton
fulham
villa
and the rest….
king kenny.. you said the right word there at the end.. HISTORY. zzzzzzzzz.. get over it, its as bad as england fans banging on about 1966 ffs.
chris @8 i see you dont get out of the house much then
LFC have 4th highest shirt sales Worldwide (behind Man U, Barca and Real Madrid).
Sponsorship deal with Standard Chartered is the joint biggest (with Man U) sponsorship deal EVER! (£20m p/yr)
LFCs shirt deal with Warrior Sports (£25m p/yr) is bigger than Man U’s deal with Nike (£23.5m p/yr) and set to double after Adidas restrictions on non-branded merchandise are lifted!
14m fans in Thailand, biggest fan base on Weibo (China’s equivalent to Facebook – the only way to estimate who they support) and the biggest fan base in Malaysia!
That’s why Liverpool are referred to as a ‘big club’.
moocher agree
First of all I think that all our premier league clubs are big clubs and should be shown respect. But what is an important factor is the demographics of a club, fair enough Newcastle and Sunderland do have a large fan base but these are both one club cities. They also attract fans from Durham and Northumberland, imagine if Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham were only one club cities the fan base would equally be as large if not bigger due the size of population of these cities.
There needs to be some balance between history, present day success, global positioning, fan base and stadia
Newcastle have a great team, fan base (in England) and a manager who worked miracles but they are a long way from being considered a big club, although the delusion of their fans would have you think they have always been a big club since they once challenged Man Utd and Keegan flipped out.
Leeds, Shef Wed, Notts Forest have all been considered big clubs at one stage or another and yet……
But it’s no longer about big small and medium sized clubs, it’s practically Super Clubs such as Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea (in the Prem) and everyone else!
Im down in Kent right now for a family do this weekend, vast majority here and some from Southampton are all fans and never lived up our way. Yes one of the family played for us, but that’s not why, they are just fans and always have been. Point I’m making is that we are about all over the country, think this blog proves it, fans from all over post on here. May not be able to get to the games, but love the club and not glory hunters
ONE good season does not make one “a big club”
LFC has not won the league for over 20 years, BUT still LFC is recognized one of the big clubs in europe(let alone england)
its history and world based support that makes you BIG
still a long way to go for NUFC
red john@18.. yeah but you also play crap footy, are now also rans as far as trying to compete in the prem is concerned and are living on past glorys. There are maybe two sides of the coin here.. yes ok, you have alot of global appeal (which will soon fade off as most away supporters are fickle and follow the winners), but on the flip side, your on field performances are only as good as your last season. There is no point in pointing to what you did several years ago in trying to beef up what happned last season. It like some bloke being in loads of debt and having no money but trying to say he was rich as five years previous he had a wedge of cash, even though its now all gone. I can never ever see liverpool pushing for anything higher than 4th spot as a maximum these days.
@23.. there is that word again used by all liverpool fans these days.. history.. thats all you lot are going to be for a fair while i think. always in the mix for europa and maybe 4th spot champ but that is it and we all know it. The main difference between our fans is we are not blinkered like you lot and we are not living in the past. We all know that nufc could be anything from 5th to 17th as that is the nature of our club. You lot cant yet grasp that what was once a great club is now just a bit part player in a bigger picture, a side show to the main event.
I think the problem for some clubs, like Liverpool this season and maybe Arsenal next season is this… These clubs are built on being a ‘top 4′ finishing club. They sign players and pay them wages on the basis that they will finish there every season. So what happens to these clubs when a Man City rolls up in town and they all have 3 spots to fight for instead of 4. Or next season if City and Chelsea finish 1 and 2. It means Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool are fighting over 2 positions. Someone has to lose out. Thats why we (and Villa, Spurs) arn’t a ‘big club’ in the premier league sense IMO, we havn’t got the extra revenue that these guys built up when they were successful and use to dig themselves out after a poor season.
off topic for a mo,talk about weddings going with a bang
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/9322530/Police-called-to-wedding-of-Newcastle-Utds-Danny-Guthrie-after-stately-home-braw
Excellent points Moocher, post 14. If were on about history, then Man Utd and Liverpool both had periods where they weren’t considered the biggest clubs even in their respective cities.Busby and Shankly changed that, but they weren’t always top of the tree.In fact Liverpool pre 1959 hadn’t achieved that much in terms of trophies and were probably behind Newcastle.!! Football now is about money and with the clout that Man City and Chelsea have, then it is difficult to compete, but not impossible. Everton have always managed to have a go and Newcastle last season were very competitive.”Financial Fair Play” may help to create a level playing field, time will tell!!
What a great read…lol But sadly more for it’s comedy value!
The trouble with modern day premier league fans is they think it’s a day by day thing!
Because Manchester City won the league do you think that’s it! Instant global sales? Do you think they’re anywhere near as big as Liverpool?
In this country whether you like it or not (regardless of you wanting or hoping for it to be any different) there is only 2 genuine global teams with huge support. Liverpool and Manchester United.
How Newcastle a team that constantly flirts with relegation and has not won a thing for 60 years feel they have a right to chair such a debate is beyond me!
This article and thinking is laughable.
Liverpool’s support in Asia ect. will start to fade. Don’t think for one second that these fans are’nt as fickle as they come. They just want to support the winners and champs league clubs like Man City. As pointed out here…
‘Then there are three clubs between £350m and £400m Chelsea, Arsenal and then Liverpool. I think Liverpool are dropping down and may well have trouble holding onto 4th with Manchester City moving rapidly up to just over £300m. There is then a gap to Spurs at just over £200m’
these clubs are losing so much money….its a joke nobody will buy these clubs at that price..so 2 value something that high and lose that amount of money will come back and bite them…and clubs like us if ran right will then be laughing…man u who the hell is going 2 pay over a billion pounds..
SuaRed @ 29 There’s a bite on the line.. reel ‘em in boys!
United, City and Chelsea are going to be the biggest going forward. United because they’re United and City & Chelsea because of their owners. Then, for me, it’s Arsenal and Liverpool. Arsenal have the ground and the matchday income and Liverpool still have their massive global support. Considering how low Liverpools matchday revenue is, their turnover is huge. Once they sort their ground out, if the FFP rules are adhered to then I think Liverpool and Arsenal could prosper and get a lot closer to that top 3 group of clubs. Then come Spurs and Newcastle. It’s going to be very hard for these clubs to continue to make the push into the top 4 but both have proved it can be done. However, for me, City United and Chelsea willbe the top 3 for the next 2 or 3 seasons at least.
Liverpool have a rotten cor, a terrible team and have been sh!t for three years now.
BUT they are still undoubtedly the second biggest club in England.
Their worldwide appeal means that it just a fact.
It’s takes decades to rid yourself of a great reputation. I’m sure most of us would still class Leeds as bigger than half the prem teams.
Afraid most the scousers commenting are right. Luckily we generate a lot of interest so despite never winning anything generate more interest than teams like everton. We are light years away from liverpools level of support, no matter how awful they become. We know more than anyone that lack of success doesnt fade passion.
DJG@32
SuaRed@29
Comedy Value, that’ll be £35 million then!!
Alex sorry to disappoint you mate but Anita isn’t the lad I was talking about.
We won’t hear anything on that chap until after euros
We will see mate its all speculation and journo talk nothing concrete and can always change but will stick to my guns on this.
We shall see
On topic nice article prem!
Sunderland swoop for new twin strike force……
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2009/08/03/newcastle-cat-and-dog-shelter-in-donkey-row-72703-24303020/
Really good read btw prem. well balanced and realistic
not actually sure why there’s scousers complaining, you’ve said where we arrive and the huge task we have trying to grow worldwide
looks like danny guthrie had a good knees up at his wedding.. ah there is some nice scouser class for you! i would loved to have been a fly on the wall there.
LFC fans living in the past? Champions League winners in 2005, runners up two years later, FA Cup winners 2006 finalists 2012, League cup winners last year.Second in the league before Benitez got the chop. Not a run of success to match the Mancs or Chelsea but better by half than the rest and still fresh enough in my memories thank you – Honest truth – if thats a decline how many fans would settle for that – Point is even at our lowest ebb we still are a big club even
Strange that like, Guthrie seemed like one of the better behaved in the squad, maybe it was his trashy scouser wife and her side.
MalachyJAC@41….so from what i can make out …..you are saying that other than the league cup that no-one cares about out of the big teams (not you by the way – I mean current big teams and not historical ones like yours as if they had fielded any team other than the kids you would not have won that either), that your last win was in 2006 with the FA cup.. so thats like six years ago… yep…. sounds like history to me. Its all past glory isnt it.. your clubs trend is one of going backwards and that coupled with your dire losses and massive debt, small stadium that is crap, means that you can never realisically compete with the top four any time in the near to middle future. I quite liked liverpool when it had a heart and soul but now, its now just a crap club owned by people that pronounce football as soccer.
Canny read Preman, but I hate big club arguements , however…
Karl-Villa….read up on history before commenting, it’ll avoid you looking stupid
Chris@8…so small you bothered to come onto one of their blogs, makes you a bit of a cock really!
GP…”We in our worst season for many a year won the carling Cup”….learn your own history before making arsehole comments, 2010/11 was a worse season overall for you ffs
Suared…acting the arsehole that he is every time he comes on here or other teams blogs so no surprise there
Moocher….good comment fella.
It always depends on what criteria you use but imo in England I’d say as global names you have Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, after that you’ll have Spurs, Citeh(they’ll move up) NUFC, Villa, Everton. I live in Spain and have lived in Germany and the English tops I’ve seen on sale most are obviously the first 4 along with Celtic, after that I’ve seen NUFC and Spurs, I can’t remember ever seeing any of the others I’m afraid.
Prem good read mate
I agree with my honourable friend @ 44
Alex…from previos thread, what I was saying is that other than Drogba leaving(his contract had run down so was nailed on) nowt else is right, even if we sign someone from the Dutch league it has to be a “mega” signing to be claimed as correct, we’re very likely to sign someone from there and the French leagues as that’s where we do most of our scouting, I don’t think anyone can clainm that as being “ITK”…..even Demba leaving can hardly be claimed as it’s been mentioned by every robber and his dog.
The global support that LFC currently has will fade in a few years. The new owners are still willing to put money into the club, so the overseas support will hold on for a bit longer. Bit there is no way they can pull ahead of thr Manchester clubs and Chelsea for a while. Arsenal will stay ahead of you guys because Wenger has them in a great financial model. Admit that your club is no longer one of thr elite. None of our players would leave for u guys. Fact.
*previous & claim
Dave
DAVE “every robber and his dog,”batty never said a word mate
Well fat rich @ 44 knows his stuff spot on mate
thanks for the support lads, at least it proves the Newcastle fans can read, others seem to either be a bit selective or just spouting rubbish.
Batty…thanks(I think)
Batts he doesn’t get too much right but an odd time he nails it
Ice Batts knows how to keep quiet, but its normally because he’s eating
see Demba Ba is requesting £70kpw to move. to Galatasaray. Seems like he’s on more than the max £25k that newcastles wage cap is set at
Globale suport means nothing to making that club big if they have to borrow to pay off a years interest on their debt like Man U.All it means is that if their creditors were to call in in debt they would go bankrupt.
whoops forgot the link
http://www.turkish-football.com/news_read.php?id=3026
what does that imply for his long term security at SJP
I see a lot of Liverpool fans are having a go at us. To be honest Ive been a Newcastle fan for 10 years now and I live in the US! Ive actually seen many Newcastle fans like myself and people who respect Newcastle over here. Regarding Liverpool I think ive only seen one. Now I know Liverpool have a big fanbase in Asia but do you really think that fanbase will always be there? You said it yourself big clubs come and go and im not saying Liverpool will decline. Im just saying its a possibility. If Liverpool keep having seasons like this one their global fanbase will begin to decline and thats the truth. Liverpool is a big club but so is Newcastle. I wouldnt say Liverpool is bigger than Newcastle honestly. Our fanbase will continue to grow and so will our team. Steven Gerrard wont carry you forever.
Its an interesting debate and agree with moocher than at certain times clubs are regarded as bigger than others. But personally you have to look at success on the pitch for me. You can have a massive fanbase but no trophies doesnt mean a lot. When ever I have discussions with mates the same names crop up all the time a true really greats, Real Madrid Ac Milan Inter Man U Liverpool Ajax Barca Bayern why? because they are all clubs who have constantly won trophies in their respective leagues and the European Cup. ( I say this as I dont recognise any of this chumps league, bit like a division 1 play off now champs finish 35 points head of 4th but they with the cup! pathetic, anyway thats another discussion) in the UK you can add Arsenal cleary by a country mile more successful than Chelsea. Never relegation trophies consistantly throughout their history and arguably bigger than Man U Liverpool because of this. Chelsea pre 2001 could never be classed as a big club and even today they only get 42000 with no waiting list for season tickets. If they are to be included then the Villa have the same amount of fans, same amount of trophies and 1 Eurpean Cup to the Villa and one chumps league to them.
3 Largest for me will still be Man U Liverpool Arsenal and forget how much money they get off sky etc. Until other teams overtake the number of trophies they have won there is nobody else.
Terry that’s not quite the case. the Glaziers have used their borrowing to dramatically increase Utd’s turnover and particularly profit. Yes debt is high, but they are over £50m a year profit higher than before they took over. Utd debt levels are not insurmountable. Global support enables you to do big shirt endorsements as Red John @18 said.
think that says 70euros not £ so hes not greedy
AV64…good comment and agree up to a point, but I think these days you can’t just count trophies won, if you did then Wolves, Sheff Wed, Blackburn, Forest and Leeds would be in the top 15 clubs, would you put them all in that “big club” bracket now? The other thing to consider these days finishing 4th is regarded as more successful than winning a cup, especially the league cup, although personally any fecking cup would do me
man city bought the prem, chelsea bought the prem. If some rich oil tycoon bought villa or nufc we woyld win the league also. Anyone who says man c are a big club are jokers, when you have won 30-40 trophies then come back. Its easy for man city when you pay ridiculous wages, just remember where you were 15 yrs ago, and as for big teams look at the ones who have never been relegated from the premiership, only 7 can boast such a record.
what makes a big club is a club with a fan base creating alot of revenue to keep hold of and retain a premier league team, only luck can keep a club with little money in the prem because sooner or later your luck at nufc of finding cheap players who come good will end and so will your prem posistion. big clubs are clubs with big mooney whether its fans or owners mooney sad but true.
Oi Richie you neggar!
When I claim in a itk?? I posted earlier mate don’t get too worried
I just shared a bit of info with a few chums
Good debate and good article Prem.
Agree with those who say that there are now mega clubs and then everyone else. I would not include Chelsea and ManCity because if their owners leave they’ll go back to being middle of the road.
As the Vila fan said, you only get into that mega group by winning consistently. LPool is probably in that group only because of their huge international fanbase. But those fans won’t be around forever if they stop winning.
I reckon that it’ll depend on the next generation with regards to Liverpool. If they haven’t established themselves as fighting for the title in the next five years then people around the world will lose interest, the children in Asia will stop buying Liverpool shirts which will inevitably be replaced by City shirts. Also one of the main reasons that the likes of America and Asian country’s support these clubs is because football isn’t fully established there so they look to other leagues for the entertainment, now that their leagues are getting bigger and their money is attracting bigger players they’ll be watching their league and won’t pay as michigan attention to the others.
Liam…Soz wasn’t having a go at you(though it seems that way)…it was more Alex saying you’d got a few right, Drogba can’t really be claimed as can’t “any” player signed from the Dutch league, you were excited about it so that’s why I said on the last thread that I didn’t reckon the current ones being linked are the “one” you were talking about and the “ITK” is in reference to your mate not you
…..I’m still hoping the one you were talking about is Narsingh or Bas Dost 
Tez so your saying stoke are a big club
why would i be saying stoke batty lol
also dont confuse succesful with big, man city may have no history but theyve got such a big cheque book they can get nearly any player in the world how many clubs can say that, i’m a liverpool fan and hate man city as much as you’s but they are a club who could come in and take your best player when ever they want that makes them a big club the only question is can the owners keep paying out there pocket untill the fan base can support the club or will they be going down in the next 10 years at the mo theyve got no chance of supporting that wage bill with out digging into his own mooney and dont forget the shakes oil is very nearly run out some say max 5 years.
ICE yr right it was only euros. should never have bothered posting.
Oh and I see Ed has posted a blog to answer my question @56
Off topic
Maybe shit journo stuff but if not it sounds good
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2012/06/10/newcastle-united-close-in-on-dutch-international-pair-signings/
not that he does of course
PREM was only jokeing in regard to greed
Tez >>> as for big teams look at the ones who have never been relegated from the premiership, only 7 can boast such a record.<<<
u could of worded it better 
Will be interested to see how Italy and France do after recent years. I think at least one of them will get quite far.
Batty…that’s very Childish….but I’ll raise you Swansea
Have Stoke seriously never been relegated from the PL?
For a team that constantly flirts with the bottom 3 and play shit football that’s amazing.
chris your right they could take our players but would have to pay top dollar
but you havent got that problem being a pool fan as your players are mostey shite 
35 million 
rich
Andy..aye but they’ve only been it it 4 years or so
Richietoon
I see your point mate, yes these clubs would be included and to a cetain degree you would put them in, a couple have a very big following, success breeds a brand and bare in mind there was no global football when these trophies were won. There was no inrenet, easy access to game coverage, global sponsorship etc. If these clubs had the opportunity at the time, would we be saying that the likes of Chelsea would have been bigger than Leeds, no so sure mate. This is the difference now, the likes of Man City and Chelsea have been very fortunate to come on the scene when a ridiculous amount of money has been thrown at them. Dont know how old you are but I remember 48000 at Villa park for a third division game and no doubt gates similar at Newcastle, if this happened now it would be all over the media etc. Therefore growing the brand. Which is why I say it is all about trophies for me as this day and age is all misconstrude. How big do you think some of these teams could have been with success and global branding regardless of how many turn up on a wet wednesday night. Thats why Man U Liverpool & Aresenal are as big as they are regular winners of trophies regardless of importance to you or I. I think Liverpool have been in decline for a number of seasons to be honest however, the difference we went to wembly twice recently, beaten by Man U beaten by Chelsea, Liverpool poor season win the League Cup.
Villa until Chelsea winning there 2 trophies this year were 4th on the number of trophies won, Chelsea with all the money thrown at them have overtaken Villa with success since 2001, with next to nothing befoer that. Bigger than Villa? I dont think so but the medias constant promotion of Chelsea over the years and you can see the effect it has on peoples thinking. But I still retain Man U Arsenal Liverpool are the biggest clubs. Clubs have the potential for bigger stadia etc Spurs, fanbase in uk is a lot more than Chelsea.Spurs have a great history but but until they get back to winning trophies on a consistent basis and surpass Chelsea now they will always be regarded a smaller club by the media. You only have to hear Talks….e now about the Lambert appointment that there is no difference in us and Norwich, this is down to league position, no mention of previous history, trophies,fanbase, because to them its all irrelevent. I was praying you would knock one of them out of the chumps league, the media nad rightly so recognised your success last year, but start slow next year and you will be fogottten as quickly and Liverpool finishing 8th will get more coverage.
Only way to win and not be ignored is win trophies. a distant dream for most of us now mate
4-6-0 Spain vs 3-5-2 italy. WHOAH. #Spain vs #Italy
GO ITALY.
Italian football style is the direct curse of spanish football.
whooo.
I would say Bolton were, if not a ‘big club’, an established prem club. They had been in the prem for a while and had a strong finish the Sturridge season. Just goes to show, even a club like that are one season away from getting flushed down the toilet.
We may not have massive global support but we’re the second team for many across Britain and around the World. Living in Scotland I’ve seen many ‘true’ supporters of many English clubs, usually Man U, Arsenal or Liverpool with a few supporting Chelsea/City, but the club that most people say are their second club is Newcastle United, my boss at work is one of them, a Hearts supporter that also follows the fortunes of Newcastle and has done so for over a decade, and I’ve met many like him both in Scotland and on my frequent trips down south. I have yet to meet anyone who’s second club is Liverpool as most hate them. Also our central European brand name is getting bigger with the Dutch and the French beginning to follow us because we have and our continuing to look at their players.
I forgot to mention the African contingent which is increasingly growing, following us with the Dembas and Tiote. It may not mean much financially but being acknowledged by fans around the world shows we are a big club.
Rich
Oh yeah
In regards to Villa and Newcastle , I think we are both big clubs but there are bigger clubs out there. Simple as that
Liverpool will always be a big club due to their success in the 70′s and 80′s but at present they remind of us before we went down. Fans have too much of a say and they know f**k all , paying well over the odds for players who are not good enough , been over reliant on an aging star who won’t be able to carry the team forever. Looking from the outside in Liverpool have a lot of problems and Im not sure rodgers is the man to solve them.
Johno
Interesting look at it, we went through a few managers as well which is what I can see happening at Liverpool, Rodgers can’t last he’s their Allerdyce.
batty
yeah we may of paid 35 mill for carrol and hadnt started to pay off till end of the season but we can afford to make theese mistakes you cant, are you saying buying a flop stops you being a big club look at our past 10 years weve had loads of flops morientes, keane and aqualani to name a few but so have man u, chelsea and man city its the fact we can continue to make theese mistakes that makes us a big club
AV64…Agree with that mate, short term I’d rather win the league cup than 4th place and UCL qualifiers….long term maybe UCL helps attract better players, more money etc which helps you compete with the “big boys”, that said though we’ve had CL footy fairly recently and still have feck all to show for it, great memories apart.
I’m knocking on a bit but don’t think I’m as old as you
Reet, time to watch wor lass’s team in the Euros
Chris
Not when the majority of your signings are flops, that’s why you finished so low, the fact that you ARE a big club kept you from dropping any lower than you did.
ANDYMAG
dont get me wrong i like newcastle i think they are the only team who should be really proud of last season man city bought the title man u got beat by their rivals chelsea still underperformed in the league and as for my team liverpool worst season possible finishing below everton, but that dont make you a big club people may like newcastle but they wouldnt miss their own team to watch newcastle or buy any merchindise really so it unfortunatly doesnt make you a big club just because your liked by many it doesnt help pay the high wages required to stay in topflight long term,
Chris
That’s what I’m saying, being people’s second club may not get us the money to buy Ronaldo but being acknowledged world-wide when many teams don’t makes us a big club.
Wow Balotelli is shit!
If villa had aright foot he’d have 2 goals already. Good match this. Up the Irish later on
ANDYMAG
yeah but we ended up spending less than 70 mill after the sale of torres and getting three quality additions in suarez, ENRIQUE, downing (will play much better under rodgers style guarateed) and we finished so low due to suarez’s suspesion and lack of a pre season training due to south america cup, andy’s lack of fitness because your medical and physio staff let him go to pot then we got him recovered but not match fit in any way, and our previous player of the year lucas being injured so early on in the season an being out ofr the rest and dalglish must take some blame for lack of attacking formation or foward planed plays, defensively we did miles better than nufc but we were miles of your attacking which as a fan i’d rather see the all out attack play newcastle play, but its a dangerous set up as if your strikers start misfiring as happens to all your left with nothing we still scraped 7th without any sort of real counter attacking threat most of the season, were would newcastle of been?
Chris
If you remember that we had the best defensive record in the PL until November when one of our main CBs (S.Taylor) was out injured (whole season), after that we had real defensive troubles and at one point had two very small fullbacks playing at CB. Come next season we’ll have our defence sorted and will have replacements for anyone who leaves, you’ll be relying on your expensive buys to come good and your other new signings (who will also cost a lot) to settle which they seem to have trouble doing at your club. Carroll seemed to be scoring fine when at us, you can’t blame us for him being shit as he wasn’t as fond of the drink as he was when he went to the pool where he drowned out his misery at leaving his home club. Enrique was not good last season he was unbelievably average and as we NU fans know was because he didn’t have gutierrez to cover him. Downing was shit last season and will be only margainly better this season.
Rodgers will not be able to amend Downing’s total shitness. He may actually get an assist for you in the league next season, but not much else.
In fact, I don’t think Rodgers will be planning on using Downing very much. Not his style of play. Might even get sold, which I think would be a massive relief to Liverpool fans, even if you will end up selling at a huge loss
Liverpool “scraped” 8th not 7th
Prem, Wow you’ve really stirred up a hornets nest here mate with this article.
Right first up, Chris @8 You don’t get out much do you.
G.p@10 ,I don’t think any Toon fan has said we are a big club .The question posed by Prem was ‘so who are these big clubs’ ,try understanding what you read.
King Kenny @11 The point is ,that history is all you have at the moment .
Red John @18 Global fanbase is down to many things not just success. It’s interesting that both Liverpool and Man utd wear red and share huge followings in the far East ,Red is considered very lucky over there ,a fact not lost on the current owners of Swansea city ,hence the strip change of colour .The owners even pointing out that this was done to appeal to the far East market.I’m not saying it’s the reason they follow you but will play some part.
Malachyjac@41. Alright pal,calm down
Moochere@14- Great post that.
Very interesting that we have so many Villa and Liverpool fans on here today,seems like both their poor seasons have really got to them . Liverpool are in serious decline and I think a lot fans at other clubs dislike them after the problems with Suarez this season ,the whole episode left a nasty taste in the mouth and did great harm to a once proud club.I notice no one else has mentioned the elephant in the room .well now I have so there it is. Wonder what your world wide fan base made of that little episode.
As for Villa ,never really give them a second thought tbh ,just don’t see them as anything special .
fuckin hell and they call us deluded ,
reckon we would of finished 3rd easy if taylor hadnt got injured and didnt lose ba and tiote in jan to acon 
ffs downing quality Green van time
Just a question. I wonder if Bill Shankly had joined Sheffield Wednesday instead of Liverpool we might see their respective fortunes reversed. I wonder if in 20 years people refer to Pardew as the founder of the geordie dynasty. Maybe Rodgers will turn round Liverpools fortunes. Who knows who the next big thing will be. Personally as I said I think that money counts and those that have can throw it at the wall in the hope that some sticks.
That’s right Prem. Clubs with real money can afford mistakes whereas our purchasing mistakes got us relegated. Shame that ffp wont fix that
BATTY@103 a normal daglish signing crap
Prem ,That’s the real issue here, forget history ,fan base and club size ,these once ‘Big Clubs’ are seriously worried that they ain’t got a hope in hell of winning the PL ever cause the financle playing field is no longer level ,if it ever was . Citeh and Chelski hold all the cards ,Man u ,Pool ,Arse and Spurs got no where near the clout of those two, finance wise. There’s a lot of jealousy out there , but most Toon fans are realistic ,in fact we are getting quite proud of our penny wise ways as when it all goes tits up ,and it will one day ,we will be one of the few left standing.
see the usual moaning so and so’s are on here =D
have a good weekend boyz
don’t worry about big clubs, Newcastle fans should just look forward to their 44th consecutive year of not winning a trophy (w3orth winning).
your fairs cup was won before Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon
carry on dreaming you maggie muppets
Just an acknowledgment of Toonsy’s fine work turning my garbled mess into a readable article. Many Thanks as usual.
Ice…LPools mistake was trusting the rebuilding of their club to a dinosaur like daglish who still thinks big money English signings are the forward.
“Way” forward
yawn someone fishing again
MDS his biggest problem is he has nee idea how to “blend”players imo
big dave told me your opinions worth as much as gordon stachens but i’m not one to cause shite like
Premandup – great article mate and really struck up a debate.
It’s good to read fans of other clubs views as well (well the valid ones anyway)
It seems be definition that a ‘big club’ is a rich club. Either financially rich or rich with a history of success. I am Newcastle through and through, whether they were PL or 2nd division I love the club and my history with it, but by definition we are not a ‘big club’.
Liverpool fans bang on about history but that success in the 70′s is what built their worldwide fan base, but the truth is (and you all know my hatred of Liverpool – so I’m pained to say this) they have won more in the 10yrs than we have in our history. Winning things builds your fan base, which in turn increases the money the brand (or club) makes. Larger companies want to be associated with the brand and will pay more money for that, you attract bigger player who contribute to greater shirt sales worldwide.
For example, I work just outside of Newcastle, yet I work with, Newcastle, Sunderland, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd fans. We were all born and grew up in and around Newcastle area so I understand Sunderland fans but the rest have simply followed the teams that were successful as they grew up. The couple who live next door have 2 teenage boys, the older one has Chelsea shirts, the younger Man City shirts and both have Barca shirts, neither have Sunderland or Toon tops. Of their friends there is ONE toon fan and he gets the piss taken. One a recent holiday, I was the only toon fans amongst many Liverpool, Chelsea and City fans.
We have a board at the moment who seem to have a long term plan to raise the profile of the club, but it will take time and some controversy (stadium name) and may still not work. But MA will keep trying as raising the profile of NUFC raises the profile of SD. But without a couple of Billion quid to spend or that 10-20yrs worth of regularly winning trophies and success we will never be seen as a ‘big club’ …. but that’s ok, coz I will always love NUFC forever.
Capitano@109, Wow ,you really must of spent ages on that insult ,well done ,we’ve never heard that one befor .
Newcastle do have the ability to become a big club someday. However, as things stand right now, it could take another decade before that’s realized.
Here’s hoping!
PUP your very poor at fishing,stick to boats
CHRIS June 10, 2012 at 17:20
‘andy’s lack of fitness because your medical and physio staff let him go to pot then we got him recovered but not match fit in any way’
Er… what about your shit team that creates no chances for him. I don’t watch many Liverpool games but I watched the cup final and he was your best player by a country mile. Lets see how he does for England.
It’s wierd…but every time Gerrard gets interviewed on the telly, I feel obliged to go outside and check that the wheels are still on me car!
UTD111 @121
If they are still playing him at 32 and with loads of injuries there must be nobody else. He’s second to every ball these days. Never mind check your car, if he plays it will be ‘three wheels on the wagon’.
Would love to see ROI win and top the group tonight , after that result they gotta go for it.
I don’t, I hope Duff scores an own goal.
I thought Italy’s defense was fantastic as usual.
Djg- agree re: Italy. De Rossi was motm for me.
Disagree re: Ireland. Cmon Ireland!
ANDYMAG @96
enrique had a good season in my opinion, downing also played well to me it seemed them two were constantly countering well up the left but having to hold the ball up for too long waiting for options our tactics of trying to keep posesion over all out goal getting gets in the way of these players thats why your strikers and and carrol get goals at newcastle our play style has been to find a guranteed pass over the chance cross and lobbed through balls leading to most our shots being taken outside the box with the opponents area barracked up leading too us hitting the wood work and there players more than getting goals hopefully rodgers will get rid of this part of our game.
Jez you would easily know jeremy kyle isn’t on at the weekends, so they all decide to come on here with their shite.
Andymag you had Chris in your pocket there lad, but I hope you never had any money in there
Chris what is your honest opinion on having a racist in your team
do you fully support him and what he did 
And there goes Croatia
dave stop teasing chris now he knows his footy ,you can tell that with his downing is quality posts
Batty his team knowledge is top notch for knowing what spot they finished in
aye dave just like we finished 4th
dave we both know we will win 3 cups next season and challenge for the leauge
Good article Premandup. You’ve summarized what makes a big club nicely. I think as far as the Prem is concerned Liverpool have a lot more to prove than we do next season. To me they have not put themselves in position to get back into the top 5 either with players or their new manager. We have a better chance depending on what happens this off season of course. I think we might lose one or 2 good players but we will bring in 4 or 5 of high quality thanks to Carr. And Aston Villa aren’t in position to do anything at all in the league as far as I can see. Lets discuss it again at the half way mark of the coming season!
Anybody think McGeady and Doyle would fit into our squad
Would love to bring in McGeady, not so sure about Doyle although he is a hard worker. Why would McGeady want to play in Moscow? It must be the money so he wouldn’t fit with us probably. I think we will see more coming from the French and German leagues. Would love to get a good hard tackling German at the centre of our defence and leave the pretty foot work to Colo.
GEORDIETWO @136
how can you say that about rodgers he’s a good manager not saying pardew isnt but he was sacked from his last two post the later being a league 1 side, rodgers has better pedigree than pardew, do you think because you finished higher than us that makes you a bigger club you did better tan us but your certainly not bigger, we just have to improve on this dismal season which newcastle have to try retain that possition i think youve got more to prove, my guess newcastle want cope with the extra games because of there fast style and not so good defensively without there pace and energy newcastle have nothing
GeordieTwo we have a hard tackling Geordie at the centre of our defence
.
As for Mcgreedy or Doyle I like Doyle but wouldn’t want Mcgreedy
Not sure about Mcgeady haven’t seen that much of him, Doyle is a grafter but as a goal scorer he’s a steaming pile of horseshit….that’s a no by the way
Chris@139 You really don’t pay attention do you. Newcastle had the best defensive record up until we lost S.Taylor ,then we struggled ,but funnily enough managed to finish above you. You say our ‘weak ‘ defence is our achiles heel but Saylor is now fit again and we will also strengthen at the back and as you rightly point out we have pace in our side and imo much better strikers than you . Bearing these things in mind we should be o.k ,I’m not saying we’ll win the league or even be top 4 as I don’t see it as a divine right to finish top 4 ,I leave that mentality to the likes of you.
Richietoon, reading between the lines, I reckon you’re not that keen on Doyle…..
Agree with you Big Dave but Saylor is injury prone sadly for us. How many games has he missed in the last 3 seasons? Too many by far. We need another excellent CB because Willo just doesn’t cut it. As I said Chris let’s wait to the halfway mark of the season to test our theories out. I can’t see you getting back in the top 5 with that squad. Your best player Gerrard is getting old and injury prone. Suarez is a decent player although generally only an average finisher but a loser as a human being. Probably should be playing alongside Barton. They could spit and poke out each others eyes. Lovely pair of lads.
Kim but don’t forget the dippers have glenda Johnson and he is one of the best defenders in the prem
Well said Kimtoon. I think Chris should be getting the point by now.
Dave
@145
Then again can understand it as very hard to justify his actions. 
Dave@129 Me thinks Chris has selective reading as completely bypassed your question .
MM…he certainly puts in the graft, just a crap goalscorer thats all…..in my humble opinion of course
Dave…but Glenda was picked for the England squad, he must be good
GeordieTwo he has had a few bad seasons injury wise but I think it’s more down to bad luck rather than prone
. but we do need a far better CB than Willo as he’s like a rabbit in the headlights, and then Saylor and the new one can fight it out for 1st choice
@146,lets hope so mate.
ime with DAVE @140
Richie thats why he got picked for England, I heard Italy was trying to find out if he had a likeing for Pizzas they were trying to adopt him.
Kim aye I didn’t expect Chris would have the balls to answer my question @ 129
Spot on Dave. Get some competition going at the CB position. We are so thin there with Kadar being released. Surely there must be a plan going forward. Just can’t see another season with only 3 CB’s and a couple of youngsters who are nowhere near ready. We have enough midfielders for 2 squads yet refuse to bring in any CB’s. Have never been able to make heads nor tails of it.
Haha! I love how Chris says “all we have to do is improve. You have to retain”
How is it easier to improve than to stay where you were? Liverpudlian logic at it’s finest
No offense intended to Saylor Big Dave and Icedog. I just think we need to improve our depth at that key position to stay in the top 6 and battle well in Europe. Come on Graham put your thinking cap on for this position. Make Krul’s life a little easier!
Strangely enough, due to his injury, Saylor’s value to the team seems to have grown. Willo is a tryer but when Saylor is back he will form the central defensive pairing with Collo. Would still like us to sign a big strong no-nonsense ball playing centre half though..
G”2 i think we all know we need depth in defence m8
Cracking diving header by Given there like
Croatia
hell slap it up the Irish 
3-1 Croatia….
Wor Shay hasn’t looked too good on the hearders like 
“headers” even…. can see a 5-1 coming off here…
Meant to say befor my@101 post should of said Cardiff city not Swansea
MM I wanted us to try to get Samba as I think he would have been a good signing for us and IMHO if we had off got him when we lost Saylor we would have finished in the top 3
GeordieTwo @ 155
wow what a header
Johno sorry mate
Doyle off…it’s all Richietoons fault….
Dave…Samba would have been a cracking buy, went off chasing the cash though unfortunately.
Chris – you are a typical Liverpool fan!!
Far too busy trying to run down other clubs and telling the world how ‘big’ a club Liverpool are.
Worry about your own club man, Rodgers WASN’T first choice and no matter how often he, Gerrard or the board keep saying it, everyone knows that Martinez was first choice. Spending stupid money on average players is crazy! There was no other clubs competing to sign Carroll, Henderson or Downing – if they were that good there would have been!!
I agree that our Euro games will be demanding but we will still be top 6 next season. Liverpool HAVE to finish in the top 4 otherwise how can a ‘big’ team not play in the CL 3 seasons in a row.
MM….I just pointed out the obvious
Big D…I know you are a big fan of Samba’s, I agree with you, he would have been good for us for sure. Hopefully we can find a younger big strong centre half somewhere, we need one otherwise we’ll struggle next season..
Sorry Johno Toon, it looks like an unhappy ending coming there. Feel bad for Given as well. Aye Icedog we all know about our thin CB situation but why does it never get corrected? Should have been taken care of last summer. It probably cost us several points in the league after Saylor went down. Feeling frustrated about it for quite some time now!
MM I don’t really think he went chasing cash I think he just wanted out no matter where it was, I think if we had of bid for him he would have came in a flash.
Ricardo@168 spot on there mate, if the bloke doesn’t wanna come he aint gonna come. We have to perhaps thrown even more cash into the ring to get the players to come to the cold north…
I can remember quite a few on here at the start of the season saying that Willo was a better player than Saylor, but it’s good to see that so many now realise that I was right all along
Big D…I think it was probably an age thing with Samba. Funny like, I watched Samba playing for Hertha Berlin years ago and he looked like a real dud. Just shows how blokes can improve…
aye the luck of the Irish
MM I think the transfer fee might have had something to do with it too
Dave… I think people said that more the season before last as Saylor came into the team last season and did well with his 3 goals in 3 (or whatever it was)
Dave….and the 100k pw wages he’s reportedly on
Richie @ 179 your right but there was still alot saying it at the start of the season
Dave…fickle feckers
richietoon
Wow wow wow, i wasnt saying LST was an ITK, all i stated was from what i vaguely remeber was correct, he said drogba would leave (which was admittedly obvious), and that we were after a player who was in the provisional dutch squad. which Vernun Anita is/was. I diddnt mention any league in which they play there football.
none of this is important however as it would appear Anita isnt the player LST was going on about.
shame for the irish,they were out played imo,that mcgready hasnt changed from is days in scotland,couple of good smacks and gans missing,nee wonder they took him off
Ice
aye Mcgreedy is a walter 
Alex….I didn’t say you said he was “ITK” that was my phrase for Liam’s mate….I was just staing that he hadn’t really got anything right yet, as we haven’t signed any player from the Dutch league(yet) and that judging by how excited Liam was that I didn’t believe that Anita was the one he was talking about, which Liam has confirmed. I wasn’t having a go at you or Liam, just pointing out the facts so far
…….and 3 wows is a little excessive imo 
and Shay looked like he was at a line of something white
Richie stop picking on people you big bully
Dave…I’m just misunderstood
RICHIE been on the “red bull”again i see
Ice…defo not, it’s minging stuff…..and it doesn’t give you wings either
the dont make wings big enough to help you fly mate
I don’t want them to fly, I want them battered and fried to eat
thinking aboot eating again i should have known
Ice Richie needs a good old fashioned Herc when he flies
Ireland got royally f-cked by Croatia.
Take that Duff you A-howwll.
Ice
…whey thats me outta here, early start tomorrow.
Dave…ya can’t beat a bit of economy class Herc travel
reet I’m gone, later lads.
rich… haha may have been excessive. But i am very much anti itk. To be honest i wish lst would stop being a gimp and tell us who it is
. Personally hope its affalay, al though unlikely.
richie laters mate
ALEX aye i like that kid pleased they took him off before he showed owr much
Alex….affalay, Narsingh or Bas Dost would do me…reet I’m defo away
Richie
later lads/lasses
Ice be good lad
Seems like ol Danny boy knows how to throw a party
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2157281/Danny-Guthries-wedding-turns-mass-brawl.html
good article Prem…
From an Australian point of view (Intelligent, concise and always right)
The way I see it, it goes like this… In the 80′s Liverpool won lots of titles & trophy’s blah blah blah. That lead to every so so fan of football in OZ supporting Liverpool because, you guessed it, they were winning things…. Fast forward a few years and guess who the majority of fans in OZ support nowadays… Man U.. I can’t speak for other countries but in Oz the popularity of a club is in direct proportion to the amount of titles they have won. Any fan that is not tied geographically to a team generally looks to the top of the table and picks a team from there. Big is a strong word when it comes to describing a club.. Glamorous is a word that can be used, some teams like Barca and Real could be defined in those words I suppose. So in Australia we see a whole lot of Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal & now Man City.
It doesn’t mean these clubs are big – just more recognizable.
So all that probably contradicts my own situation as I support the Toon
you couldn’t make this shit up
http://www.turkish-football.com/news_read.php?id=3026
Hi Aussie
as well as glamorous I like to distinguish between big and successful. I’d include a lot of clubs as big, but they have become big by being successful at some point in their history. Currently we have about 10 big clubs being successful in the EPL, and another 10 either making their name or remaking it eg Wigan & Bolton. Of these top clubs we have 3 super clubs with mega money, the rest can’t match that. However, that landscape will change over the next 10 to 20 years. City have arrived, Liverpool appear on decline. What next?
Big Timmy looks impressed – Fair effort even for a warm up
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/euro-2012/netherlands-wesley-sneijder-teaches-misfiring-strikers-a-lesson-with-amazing-back-heeled-volley/story-fndz7cg9-1226390950466
Prem, I’m already seeing lots of freshly minted light blue city tops appearing here in Australia on the backs of young fans.. all aboard…..
You forgot to put deluded in your brackets @208
That vid doesn’t play inthis “region”
well well, if it isn’t bloody Richietoon
Rich maybe go to youtube and type in sneijder back heel goal, fair effert even for a feck around.. check Timmy’s reaction…
Canny goal like, can’t really see Timmy’s face as it goes in(not clear enough) and none of the clips show it after
yeah it is not real clear… he’s mainly clapping like an excited kid…
so how much are England gonna lose by tonight?
Chris
What you dont seem to realize is that 70% of the supporters here don’t live anywhere near Newcastle.
How can you state they have no support south of Gatehead.
They may not have the same support worldwide of Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal… And until recently Chelsea and Man City.
They are way above the rest though and without doubt one of the top 25 most recognized in the world.
And trophy success would see them sky rocket into the top ten.
Aussie…are you south of the ‘Heed?
Iwas just thinking last night that on the whole the games have been canny in Euro2012 so far, England will sort that oot later though
A draw I reckon, Commmmme on England!
JJ…ooohhhh look at you starting of with a sensible post
Reet of up North for the day, have a good un and remember…”let’s be careful out there” probs before your time JJ but that auld fecker Strop will remember it
I think England will do well tonight and then fall over in a heap when the pressure gets put on, say in a semi with penalties
Definitely south of the “Heed” mate…
Actually my missus say I do much thinking with the southern heed
JJ
June 11, 2012 at 07:40
Chris
What you dont seem to realize is that 70% of your opinion is bollox
I’ve sorted that for you JJ, though I reckon you’re being a bit generous there
I may be reading too much into this but I am starting to detect a slight disrespectful tone from Richie towards me…
Aussie
….though I’d heard it was on ya ‘Heed 
Rich
who have you been talking to? 
Just the general population
reet the “ball and chain” is ready 
cyas
take it easy Rich…
Richie,
Was that from the Thin Blue Line?
Hill Street Blues – JJ
For the record I am not as auld as Richie (or round)
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