Stifling our own transfer market

Getting things right?

Tough talk falling on deaf ears?
I haven’t penned (typed) an article for a month or so now simply because the other chaps on here have done a sterling job of reporting rumour and fact alike about possible transfers at NUFC, and also I’ve had nothing to say.

What has spurred me into action today was a conversation with @BillQuayDad last night. Basically se were talking about how worried he is that we will lose out on players we want because of our hard line negotiations.

Over the last few weeks it seems that we have two players on the radar who are almost certainly targets in the imminent future. Double D is who I’m talking about. Not Andy “Pies” Reid’s double D’s…. I mean Debuchy and Douglas. Both of these chaps have been linked with us for months now but we are yet to see much movement. For me this is now getting to the point where it is causing concern.

Last season our transfer activity was over in a flurry at the start of the summer window (apart from Davide Santon’s late arrival) and I am sure that many people will agree it worked well for the squad who had time to get to know each other and settle into some sort of unit a lot quicker. It seems now, however, that as clubs have become aware of our transfer success and, from what we can gather from the outside, they seem to be placing larger/different type of price tags onto players. This is something which I doubt comes as a surprise to our hierarchy who no doubt have planned meticulously for this, and can find a way round it.

Because of this I do think we are in danger of losing transfer targets to other clubs who are willing to put their hands slightly deeper in their pockets. I wholeheartedly agree with the way we now deal with transfers but with last season’s success it has made negotiations tougher with clubs and then players and agents. This will mean that our men in the know should make sure that they adapt to our success by offering realistic terms.

The other issue I currently have is the amount of youth players we peddled earlier in the summer. I agree that if people aren’t good enough they should be peddled and granted, there are now new players promoted from the academy BUT I would like to see more players on our books who are 18 and under. I have seen many articles in the past about raiding South America, amongst other places, for talent and it is something I feel really strongly about. I do see massive benefit in doing it and love the thought of us going to Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia to pick up talent. For all I know we might be in these countries, doing deals now but alongside this must be the right youth coaching set up to nurture talent as they do outside of this country.

Anyway…rant (ish) over. Sign Douglas, sign Debuchy, and sign some kids for the “development team”.

Onwards, Upwards.

60 thoughts on “Stifling our own transfer market

  1. its always good to get them in early and used to playing with one another. Though I don’t think it’s as big a deal this year since we already have our starting 11 and perhaps even a top 14 or so already settled.


  2. dont think it helps our cause when our officals have previoulsy gloated about ‘stinging’ clubs for top players and getting them at knock down prices.. Twente, Lille are probbaly not going to accept it a second time, time to pay up. in the end £10m for tiote and douglas and £10m for cabaye and debuchy is still good business..


  3. Without being a board basher, and acknowledging the smart stuff they have done, i think a thread runs through their dealings which doesnt always work.
    You see, if a player represents a good deal, then we are keen, even if the player would still have represented fair value for a higher sum. Thus, we seem to stall on Debuchy whom I guess is worth 7-8 million, even though that represents fair and reasonable value. Put it this way, if he was worth 10mill, and his contract was nearly up and price dropped to £7, we would be all over him!! At times you just have to pay up……and for fans to keep saying “in carr we trust” doesnt make sense ….because Carr will have recommended him! So if we trust Carr, get Debuchy. We have the money to do it. And dont offer derisory sums like 4mill for a player who is obviously worth more – it just makes NUFC look silly. If Spurs did it we’d accuse them of unsettling our player. In other words, would we have got Cabaye if he had more left on his contract , and therefore cost more ? Probably not. And this approach , whilst financially prudent, does not always mean you make the most of the trasfer possibilities out there. We cant keep stinging clubs and getting away with it – we’re not the only negotiators out there, as Borussia so skillfully showed us….


  4. Munster…Agree, no ones asking the club to pay more than a players worth as we have done in the past, sometimes you get players for a lot less than they are worth which is great but other times you have to pay the going rate… that’s life in the real world.


  5. I see Ashley is wanting us to push for Champions League.

    While last season proved its not impossible, he needs to put his money where his mouth is.

    We haven’t made one first team signing yet.

    For me, if we got a quality full back (Debuchy) and and winger/forward (Remy) plus a quality centre back (Mbiwa) we would have a squad capable of pushing for a top four position.

    It would cost around 30million pounds. More or less half of what Chelsea have forked out. Man City will improve if that’s possible. Man United will improve, as will the Spuds and Arsenal have improved already.

    We remain stagnant so far. And Liverpool and Sunderland start the season with better mangers. Even if I still don’t think they are great.

    We are fighting for top six as it is. It just feels like we are so close, yet so far…


  6. Still over a month left of the window 🙄

    Lille stated they wouldn’t sell Debuchy until they had a replacement signed…only just happened 🙄

    Douglas wants to remain in Holland until the very back-end of August due to citizenship 🙄

    Liverpool and Sunderland have better managers? In what way exactly?

    Been far too much of the transfer waffle on here recently, fucking chill out.


  7. Not really as concerned about our younger playing squad as you are Billquay.

    Under 17 squad won again last night, against CSKA Moscow, to get to semi-final of the milk cup
    Adam Campbell scored twice to take his tally to 5 goals in 3 games
    Our goal ratio now stands at for 16 against 1.

    When you consider that the goalkeeper , Freddie Woodman , is only 15 years old and already included in the England under 18 squad ,we really have a very good young squad coming along.


  8. Agree with Kev @ 2. Really don’t think Llambias gloating about stuff was a smart move and it kind of says a bit when the two clubs who are playing hardball with us right now are also two clubs that we’ve plundered to great effect recently.

    Having said that I’m not panicking yet. Yes it would have been ideal to get players in early doors to get them integrated and so on, but we don;t live in an ideal world and sometimes things just have to wait a bit before they come off. I still feel confident that come the end of the window we’ll have strengthened although I also understand why people are becoming a bit concerned.


  9. Good read Bill and I share your Dads concerns .I have said befor that everyone knows how we operate and are now wise to us.To assume we can still get signings on the cheap is daft,it ain’t gonna be that easy anymore. If Ashley is wanting CL then he may have to dig a little deeper on one or two 1st teamers. If you want a top range car you ain’t gonna get it for the price of a Micra 🙄 😉


  10. Toonsy @9 Spot on about the two clubs .I said that on a previous thread and stand by it still. If you rip people off they don’t forget ,I know I wouldn’t.


  11. G-wiz we are hard on our management… can any of you actually remember how many times we were ripped off in player deals ?? Year after year we paid over the odds for shit players so as far as I am concerned, fuck the other clubs, take them for what we can. Good on Dekka and Co, go out there and sqeeze the other clubs dry.. its our turn to be the f*cker instead of the f*ckee 🙂 🙂


  12. I have no expectations for next season to be honest, were involved in a lot of games and we’ve no idea how were going to handle them.

    It’s all about consistency for me, the best teams are there or there about all the time, not just for one season. So all I would like us to do is have canny runs in the cups but most importantly, finish in 5th at least! We only need 2/3 high quality signings and I honestly believe we’ll be around the top.

    However, I wouldn’t want us to change our policy regarding transfers, right player, right attitude, right deal. Look where it’s got us so thus far, the club deserve our patience.


  13. If we worked on the theory of not doing deals with teams that had ripped us in the past, we wouldn’t have a big pool of clubs to choose players from 🙂 🙂


  14. Just seen this on a forum elsewhere. Think it kind of makes a pertinent point 😉

    3 years ago today…
    We lost 6-1 in a friendly to Leyton Orient in an embarrassing display.

    Apparently this was the game that turned everything round, as we had the infamous meeting when Smith,Nolan and Harper sat everyone down afterwards and asked who wanted to stay and said they wouldnt have any hard feelings against anyone who wanted to go but to go as quickly as possible.

    This led to the exits of Beye,Bassong,Duff and Martins and left the remaining squad united and ready to launch our championship challenge.

    Hard to believe this was just 3 years ago.

    Now we have just come off the back of our best season in years and hopefully looking forward to a european campaign next season!!


  15. Talksport are saying we are close to a deal for some Aussie defender ( not a wind up). Can’t think of his name as it caught me by surprise.


  16. Your not even slightly subtle any more Troyster, pick up your game son 🙂 🙂


  17. @aussie

    Your point a couple of posts back about the club being the f–kers and not the f–kees was probably lost on most of us.

    Everyone understands that we have to drive a hard bargain and not get ripped off but to put offers in nowhere near the asking price and clearly under their market value can result in Graham Carrs best targets going elsewhere.
    We then end up with Carrs second or third best choices which maybe cheaper but the difference in quality maybe huge.


  18. Im not jokin about the Aussie defender. I was travelling to the gym at 1pm listening to Talksport and it was on their sport bulletin.
    It’s got to be advertised somewhere else.


  19. It seems that it was lost on you Troy. My post was in response to people being concerned that we are considered a club that rips others off and how easily forgotten the many times we have been done over are. Look I agree that we should be doing our utmost to get Carrs first choices. But we are doing nothing less than what has been done to us over and over again in the past..


  20. I’ve been on nightshift so missed a lot of the craic but on newsnow states Curtis Good from Melbourne Hearts is to sign for £400k.

    Wow!!! 😯

    Why do we get all the shit from Australia! We even get Begas and Faussie! 😛


  21. First we reportedly bid £4mil for Debuchy but laughed off as they wanted closer to £6mil
    We have a £6mil bid in but now they want £8mil
    Who is to stay we bid £8mil price wont goto £10 mil with Lille knowing Inter and Chelsea sniffing added to fact they still probably that little bit pissed at how much they lost with Cabaye 😆

    Maybe we wont get many in this close season with every club we try to deal with trying to inflate any prices

    But as soon as the club say well we have this transfer policy in place but we will break it just this once or twice , we end up back on the road of Shepherd etc

    Ive said previous the most important thing was keeping the big guns from last year intact , so far so good

    Barring a large number of injuries – we have cover for most areas along with youngsters banging on the door of the 1st team

    But we have got to stick to ” we buy at the price we think a player is worth ” and not what their club demand


  22. Agree with @MDS
    It would be nice to have them in early, not the end of the world though. Think perhaps we were blessed last season so now everyone expects signings early. Season before both Tiote and Ben Arfa joined with like a week left of the window. OBVIOUSLY we would all prefer them here earlier, but the club just can’t click it’s finger and magic the deals if the players’ clubs want a replacement first.

    Don’t know why people are still mentioning De Jong. We could’ve offered 100 Mill. he didn’t want to come here!

    Comparing us to other clubs is ridiculous! Spurs: replaced King with Vertonghen, signed Sigurdsson in a position they already have VDV in, they don’t have a striker except Defoe! So they are having a worse window than us.
    Sunderland… Have they even signed anyone? And they’ve lost Bendtner.
    Neither have had better windows than us.

    Also, as MDS says, it’s just squad filler we need really.

    Do people still want Debuchy if Simpson signs on? I can’t see it happening myself, and would probably prefer the money spent elsewhere..


  23. Agree with the Llaambias smarm that toonsy and kev commented on. You don’t shit where you eat and right now that’s what we’re doing, there’s only so long we can piss these clubs off for and I’m starting to get the impression we’ll start getting a very bad press in france-encouraging Benny, Maiga and Debachy to rebel? Sometmes scuppering a deal? Mhm 😕

    In fact Derrick also acted very smarmy and claimed that we’ve spent all the Carroll transfer money, as the club said they would and intended to. Well apart from the obvious maths error which even a four year old could solve, that also leaves us with the Nolan/Enrique/Routledge and now Best money.

    Don’t take the piss lads, just pay for what the players are worth and stop acting like bellends, its really not endearng.


  24. @Gary

    So we initially bid £4m and the club demand £6m.
    We then bid £6m and they want £8m.

    So clearly we rate him at £6m or we wouldn’t bid.

    Why don’t the Toon make one sensible bid and stick to one bid based on the value of the player.

    That way clubs will know what we think he’s worth and know we won’t bid any higher.

    Now they think we were pulling a fast one by bidding £4m and then £6m. No wonder the selling clubs play cat and mouse.

    One bid only based on what we believe the player is worth and over a period of time the selling clubs will know exactly what our limit is instead of testing us and it drags on for weeks.


  25. Troy you missed a key word in what Gary said: “reportedly”.
    We don’t know what is going on really.

    Have you ever bartered in a market before?


  26. I still think we will force the Debuchy deal thru but end up paying what he’s worth but we’ve made it drag on and on unnecessarily.


    You have a sense of humour unlike Begas. 😉


  27. Newkie what are they worth? What if they ask for more than they are worth?
    I don’t understand why 4 million for Douglas is a bad offer. Simmo is easily worth more than him yet people value him lower 🙄


  28. @Trumpet

    I haven’t seen Douglas play but you rate him worse than Simmo????? 😯

    What on earth are we trying to sign him for!?? 😯


  29. @Trumpet

    No I haven’t bartered for goods. I’m no expert. However its clear to see what’s happening.

    I’m sure you are going to give me a lecture on your bartering skills.

    You blow your trumpet, I’m all ears. 😛


  30. Talking about value Troy.
    Simmo: (currently) our 1st choice RB, English, proven in the Prem
    Douglas: (would be) 3rd choice CB, only played in the Dutch league.

    Both with the same time to run on the contract.

    Decent CB is a necessity though. Would be so irresponsible not to get another in.


  31. Haha well you certainly don’t go in with what you’d actually be willing to pay for the goods!
    Go in at half, be adamant you have no further funds (spent all the Carroll money we swear!), say you’ll look elsewhere if they don’t accept, and then begrudgedly meet half way when you both realise you’re all talk.

    Hopefully Ashley will fulfill the last step so we aren’t left without players.


  32. @trumpet

    If Douglas is that average what has been all the fuss ?

    Some people on here were desperate for him to sign.


  33. I think because we desperately need a back up centre back better than Willo!
    I’m not saying I don’t rate him. Just that I don’t think our offer was as outrageous as some are making out.


  34. Aussie ,I see your point about being the f**kers and not the f**ked as it were .But once you have done that to a club ,you can’t seriously expect to return to said club again and barter another cheap deal . 😉


  35. I really dont see why a lot of people or worring we havent signed anyone as of yet. I couldnt give a monkeys hole who other teams have signed as I have faith in our starting 11 can give any team a game and will do well next season. Yeah we need a few faces in to help with a long season but they will come in. The club are right to stick to their valuation of players , its very easy to say we should just pay the extra few million for a player , but if the club dont value the player why pay over the odds for them?


  36. I agree with what others have said. Twente and Lille have probably watched as Tiote and Cabaye have gone on to become top premier league players, and in Cabaye’s case he has gone back and become a regular in the France squad. We got these players for peanuts really and I think in the case of these clubs its a case of once bitten twice shy. We maybe should have cast our net a bit further. Plus this summer we are not so under the radar anymore and clubs will look at us and think we have money.


  37. DJG in regards to Tiote , was he not sitting on Twentes bench and couldnt get a game? Im sure he was , I think Mclearn said he was more suited to the english league than the dutch league so I cant see why twente would be in a huff with us. We took a player they didnt rate off their hands


  38. Kim, every team knows the territory when negotiating deals with other teams. They are all competitors in a competitive market place. There are no niave nice guys getting done over, just hard nosed business men grinding out deals. If the money is right, deals will be done, no matter what the history. The thing to remember is that it was a private conversation that was secretly recorded where Dekka spoke those words. Not pleasant stuff but its not as if he was willingly rubbing another clubs nose in it via the media 🙂


  39. munster mag at 3 – fantastic post

    im not too worried as i have low expectations. with our current squad we should finish top 8.

    i guess frustrating thing is that if we pushed boat and spent £20 plus million on carrs targets we could mount a strong challenge for 4th, do well in europa and maybe win the FA cup

    im guessing its the young lads telling eryone to calm down (then again im only 27)

    problem is we havent won owt since the 60’s

    when people smell possible success after so many years of drought, this panick happens if the club doesnt seem to be trying to build on a great season

    all this club wants is a trophy, its what built us in the 50’s..what made Jackie Milburn a hero. and we are sooo close, we just need that little extra push

    i believe we have the manager and coaching staff to do it


  40. But we signed him for £3.5M and now there is talk that clubs like Man U and Chelsea are interested in him and we have put a £20M price tag on him 2 seasons later. Forget about wally with the brolly for a min, if you were the Twente owner/chairman would you be happy with that business and want to lose another of your best players to that club, the said player could go on strike and cause all sorts of problems in the team, now you have to find a replacement as well. This is why these clubs are gonna be as difficult as possible with us IMO. Can you imagine if we lost S.Taylor to PSG and a year later he was a regular in the England squad.


  41. Icedog Carr 🙂 🙂 our new talent scout 🙂

    Didn’t Lineker score one like that a few/heap of years back. I seem to recall him knocking one in ??


  42. Johno@44 That’s fair comment but if Twente rate Douglas and don’t want to lose him then they will rightly want as much as possible for him .As has been said, if we have a valuation on him and won’t go above it then when we are rebuffed we need to walk away and go to our next target rather than mess around for ages playing silly buggers and ending up without him . By not getting the player in question because the bid is too low it makes Carrs hard work redundent almost. After all any club can go out and put a silly bid in ,but I wouldn’t put much hope on them landing the player.We been very lucky with our signings of late but it won’t always work out that well.


  43. I just cant understand why somany fans are so worried about Jabba’s money, fuk its not as if we want him to blow big money like £20 – 30 mil on a player, we are talking about paying decent money for quality players.
    Do they really think they can stroke lille, fc twenty etc again.
    I 100% agree that Lambastad has made things harder for us as he like to get all cocky about getting bargain buys while screwing others for £35 mil for a player that he said was worth fuk all.
    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.


  44. @29 Troy

    Why don’t the Toon make one sensible bid and stick to one bid based on the value of the player.

    Totally agree but that only works when the selling club are willing to give a fair price and then stick to it and not hike it up continuously


  45. Please explain to me how we ripped twente off in regards to Tiote ?? If was worth more in their estimation, they would have charged it!! Maybe they should be made at Mclaren for sitting him on the bench and not getting the best out of Tiote. And Cabaye, it was his last year of his contact, how much could Lille really ask for.. I think there is some over dramatising going on in regards to the relationship problems we may or may not have with these two clubs!!


  46. Kim at 50 if Twente dont want to sell Douglas there is nothing we can do about it. But none of us here have a clue who we are looking at and who we have bid for. We only go on what is in the papers or other sources of information but does not make any of them true. Prime exaample if this is Cisse , nobody saw that transfer coming in.
    DJG@48 we have lost players over the years who have gone onto better than we thought , Darren Huckerbury ( ok not world class but turned out to be a good player ) Saha ( fair enough he was on loan but Im sure we could of bought him ) just to name two off the top of my head. It happens.


  47. Miner was sold by us for around 12 -14m and he was later sold for over double that amount.. do we hate villa as a result? … no….we already hated them 🙂 🙂


  48. Fact is 4M euros for Debuchy is an insult and the Lille chairman even passed comment to the effect that “They must be thinking of another player” after our bid went in. This is an France 1st team RB for goodness sake with clubs like Chelsea after him too ,he’s got to be worth more than that bid .


  49. Yeah, also agree with Troy. Having sent Carr out to scout these players, and Pardew drawing up his shortlist – all of which will cost the club money – why then go in with a derisory offer?
    Some clubs are skint, as may be flexible with what they are prepared to accept for a player. The likes of Lille and Twente arent clubs that are particularly struggling.
    My understanding re the Debuchy deal was that Lille want a sell on fee which Ashley is not too keen on.
    Douglas has fannied on too long now for me like, I’d knock him on the head!, if he wanted to come he would have said by now, I understand the Dutch citizenship think but with respect to him, we need to think what’s best for NUFC, not Douglas. I’d sack him off and go for Sakho instead.
    I think the board need to be flexible and adapt their negotiating techniques to suit the club they are dealing with. It’s no good assuming a club would prefer cash upfront if your offer is going to be 3-4m less than what a club values their player at – unless you are then going to write in add ons based on ours or the players success.


  50. Solano@33-To be honest, I don’t want douglas and I don’t want to sell Simmo. I just want Debuchy and a better CB


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