He used a phrase “You cannot compartmentalise your support”. What he meant by this was that players pick up on atmospheres in the ground and respond to it. It does not matter whether the negativity is anti-Rafa or whatever, the players are affected by it.
Now we don’t have a problem at the moment with bad atmospheres at St James’ Park. Though watch this space. However, I have been reflecting upon that phrase recently. We all support NUFC and this blog is one of the most positive in it’s outlook. That’s why I post here. So I’m not criticising any individuals out there.
I really want to explore the boundary between support and criticism. We all like to think we know best and when things go wrong we all like to express our views on why they have gone wrong and what we should do about it. However, that can tip into dark side negativity which ceases to be helpful.
I know that for me people have to earn my respect before I pay any attention to them. When I used to race motorcycles only those who could ride as well as me, not many, would be listened to. I imagine the players and manager are the same. Now when I said this badly in a post a few weeks back it came across that I was saying that in order to criticise our manager you need to have managed a team in some shape or form. This is nonsense as we have all suffered from bad managers and been helped by good ones so we all know the difference.
So can we compartmentalise our support. We all support NUFC, that’s a given. Do we support the owner. Well probably a lot more now than a few years back. Still a minority want shot of him and many more don’t trust him. On the plus side he has brought financial stability and a vision, or at least a working model, for the business that we all understand.
What about our manager? Despite the respect he gets from his peers, like last years awards, and the respect he has had in working with the new players it seems that he is apparently tactically inept and producing the worst football and results in many a long year. The players also come in for stick, individually and collectively. Williamson has kept the most clean sheets of any defender this season, but he’s still rubbish. etc. There always appears to be a scapegoat in every game. Collectively they don’t have the passion, don’t understand the club etc, however, Yohan Cabaye seems happy to recommend us to Mathieu Debuchy, who was best man at his wedding.
So there must be people out there who support NUFC; but not the owner, manager or players. So what do they support? A concept of what we should be?
Not that I suppose it matters so long as the atmosphere at SJP keeps encouraging the players to perform to their best. And if they don’t, why not? Players, manager, fans? So what is that we support, and whilst in the good times it’s easy to support all aspects of the club, can we do the same when things are not so good. Should we even try to? Does it impact on performances?
So which bits do you support? And does it matter if you don’t support the rest?
I support NUFC, however as a paying fan I reserve the right to voice my annoyance at managers, players, owners who I feel aren’t pulling the club in the right direction or putting the effort in.
Although given that we’ve never won anything in my lifetime I’m no longer sure what the right direction is – maybe midtable mediocrity and 5th round of a cup will make me satisfied, saying that, in our current predicament that sounds like I’m asking a lot
stevep(Quote)
It’s really the idea that it’s our club that we support. Since I was about eight NUFC became and has remained MY club. That’s right – it’s mine. I even worry what will happen to it when I die!
georgio(Quote)
Tough one. I think it depends on how deep the strength of feeling is. Like when Ashley out was at its strongest you couldn’t fail to notice it but the team still got support.
I think you can compartmentalise your support so long as the support you show for one thing isn’t balanced out by hatred of another.
toonsy(Quote)
Agree you can’t compartmentalise (which makes my a hypocrite as I can’t stand Saylor being anywhere near the team)
I always said the biggest factor that took us down during Keegangate was the fans negativity. I said at the time they smashed the thing they lived then claimed to be supporters .
Stardust(Quote)
Thing they ‘loved’ not lived **** predictive text
Stardust(Quote)
Prem interesting read, I do think fans have a right to express their opinion on what they see and think. Afterall they get great pludits for doing well so if they’re poor then they have to expect a bit of stick, but there is a line that we shouldn’t cross when showing our dis approval.
As for who I support I support the footballing side ie Players, Manager, Coach’s etc.
Big Dave(Quote)
Nice one Prem, I guess its like anything you love, it can bring joy as well as bitter disapointment. You can’t change how you feel or react to both the good and bad… it’s a ****** up relationship at times 🙂 🙂 🙂
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
I agree that booing manager, owner and players on the pitch has a hugely negative effect and I don’t do it myself
All the groaning at Williamson, Simpson etc has a detrimental side where they just want to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible resulting in hoofball to no one, this makes the crowd get on their backs which makes them release the ball even quicker which makes the fans groan which …. well you get the idea
stevep(Quote)
Supporters pay their money so are entitled to criticise the team, manager or owner. It doesn’t help the team if they do it during the match but they’re still entitled to voice their frustration or anger.
Personally I have never once booed, or chanted negatively in the stadium while the game was on – i prefer to voice my anger on this blog. I think this is the best place to do it and whilst I totally disagree with supporters doing it at the match they are entitled to do it.
Stuart79(Quote)
Interesting read Prem. A lot of the time there is an aspect of the club worthy of criticism, the same can be said of any club. But really, unless your side wins week in week out there will always be criticism (even then, if you get used to it, you will criticise it)
I know what you mean about people who seemingly aren’t happy with anything, at any point, but fans will be fans. We just need to keep the atmostphere as strong as possible, hopefully we can limp on for this season.
Newkie(Quote)
Interesting comments but hard to keep the comments sustained on the subject. Just watch for the first comment that starts on about the game tomorrow. That’s just what we’re like. We boo, we cheer, we laugh, we cry.
All so human.
I was thinking about it earlier and it turns out just about all my friends are Toon fans. Most people I’ve done business with turned out the same. We attract each other like invisible magnets and it’s why we all gravitated to this site.
georgio(Quote)
I share the sentiments of negger booing/leaving early. I will vent and swear which is normal, but I would never “actively protest” in those manners as it doesnt help the side.
Newkie(Quote)
I say the team can count themselves lucky we don’t do this to them 😀
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/argentina/10005231/Argentine-football-fans-beat-and-rob-Huracan-players-in-their-changing-room-after-Cup-exit.html
Santii(Quote)
Santii that’s a great idea. Scare the **** out of the players and they will magically play at their best.
Premandup(Quote)
Interesting to see Aussie & I both addressing similar ideas at the same time.
Premandup(Quote)
off topic but thought how sick some twats will stoop too
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/thieves-steal-signed-newcastle-united-2821028?
icedog(Quote)
Ice-that’s shocking, hope they catch the scum
Newkie(Quote)
The aim is to find the magic formula that will grow the club financially and provide a team with the style of KK’s “entertainers”. I support anyone or anything that will help to achieve that, and criticise anyone or anything that won’t.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Georgio – I’m forgetting it’s Friday, man. What’s the mood going to be like on here tomorrow if we get gubbed?
Who and what will get blamed? The Europa Cup, the referee, injuries, suspensions, the “other guy”, the Makem defeat, players trying too hard to make amends, the fans’ violence, Anita the tea lady, ramadan …?
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
The weather?
Newkie(Quote)
Mike Williamson of course B&B have you learnt nothing! 😀
Santii(Quote)
Well if we get beaten tomorrow they can expect some of this !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22211549
stevep(Quote)
Stardust
Our defence was at its strongest with Saylor and Colo together in the team.
Since Yanga Mbiwa has come in, it has leaked more goals, we have looked nervy at the back and he has made far more individual errors than Saylor.
I’m not going to judge Mbiwa. He shows signs of ability and I think he’ll be much better next season. But at the moment Saylor is our best fit defender. 😯
JJ(Quote)
JJ-Really? Blatent handballs, tugging shirts + lucky not to give away pen and falling over himself after getting skinned by Sess? Taylor is in shocking form lately. I gave him credit as he was great in Jan but he looks the same old kamikaze lad now. Mbiwa has made his own mistakes. Debuchy is probably our only solid defender, but is often at risk of being skinned
Newkie(Quote)
I have no problem with supporters voicing disapproval on a blog, to each other, over a pint. But anyone who can boo their own team at the stadium and shout abuse at a player anywhere else other than a television screen, needs to hang their head in shame.
My sentiment about Shola are the same as Stardust seems to feel about Saylor, however, as much as I ***** about him on here. I’d probably be singing his name if I got the chance to at St James.
And he’d probably be one of the first names I ask to sign my shirt if I had to meet him in person.
For me, the ground, the club is a place for passion and unconditional support through thick and thin.
Blogs are a place for both support and for releasing frustraton.
JJ(Quote)
Prem ,interesting question. I think it is possible to compartmentalise your support ,for instance I support all aspects of NUFC but at times over the years I have supported the owner and players but not the manager or the players and manager but not the owner. As far as the players go I think it’s fair to have the odd moan about individuals as often they deserve it. It’s no different to how I treat my own kids .I love them dearly and would die for them but if they step out of line or didn’t put effort in at school I let them know in no uncertain terms . End of the day it doesn’t matter how much we moan it’s all done out of affection and a desire to see great things happen to the club. By the way I don’t see the point in booing players or manager as it’s pretty counter productive imo.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Santii – Willo is the “other guy”
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Newkie,
I agree Taylor was our worst defender in the derby game. Although as you say. Debuchy was the only one who looked ok in comparison (and even he was average).
But I don’t judge him on one game. And I don’t count two games as “lately”.
Overall this season, Taylor has been our best defender, and he has had a good season, despite going off the boil lately.
I remember for the first 15 or so games Santon was our best defender – best player in fact. Lately he too has gone off the boil.
I also think the more defensively Pardew plays and the more we sit back and invite pressure by playing deep the worse our defenders will get.
With that much pressure, there is bound to be individual errors occuring.
People were telling me that Cisse misses too many easy chances, yet he has one of the best conversion rates in the league. The fact is we expect too much from him because we know if he doesn’t put those couple chances he gets away he won’t get many more opportunities because of our **** negative system. 😆
JJ(Quote)
Ice@16 ,That’s pretty low that ,I don’t know what goes on in some folks heads.:(
Stevep@22 ,Bloody hell ,yikes.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Anyone else have continuous emoticon problems ,or is it just me?
KIMTOON(Quote)
JJ-Guess it depends on how you treat your defenders. Santon was undeniably one of our best performers because of his dribbling and forward play-he got us playing from the back unlike anyone else and was integral. Defensive wise he has always been suspect.
Two games is more than lately-honestly I think since he arrived mbiwa and tayls have both been about the same, one usually better than the other on a match basis. Both have been average, but as I said in Jan, it’s hard to blame either because of the language issue. When you said “at the moment” I assumed you meant recent form..which tends to be the last 3 matches. That’s why I questioned tayls.
Newkie(Quote)
Kim-think we all have it, you’ve just got to type in the letters manually now 😉
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie ,yeah that worked for a bit now even that fails 🙁
KIMTOON(Quote)
Wow ! that time it worked lol
KIMTOON(Quote)
There’s a strong chance I’m on my own here but I think the only way fans continue to support their chosen team is to compartmentalise. I don’t think it’s realistic or ever likely that all fans will agree with or enjoy every aspect of what’s going on at the club – take the rough with the smooth if you like. I think players and managers test your patience but chairmen and owners test your loyalty. I have no problem in critics and have been known to criticise as well but I try to keep it constructive and offer an alternative opinion.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Having had a week that saw the Scum beat us ,Spatacus end and my toilet back up yesterday I’m hopeing for a nicer end to the week .
KIMTOON(Quote)
Kim,
😆 💡 😀 👿 😥 😎 ➡ 😕 ❓ ❗
😉 😐 😡 😈 🙂 😯 🙁 🙄 😛 😳 😮
Jealous?
JJ(Quote)
As the week goes on I’m getting more and more confident we will win on Saturday.
I think the lads are really hurt and will be up for the fight for this one. Certainly more motivated than they have been in a while.
We might well catch West Brom on the back foot.
I just hope Pard’s uses that hurt and focuses it in a positive way and goes out to win, not pick up a point.
JJ(Quote)
Marv out injured 😥
Guess there’s Pard’s excuse ready 😉
JJ(Quote)
JJ @37 Now that’s plain greediness .
KIMTOON(Quote)
Marv injured now ffs it never ends ,it’s the gift that keeps on giving 🙁
KIMTOON(Quote)
I think criticism is always going to be skewed one way or the other.
Players (apart from the usual scapegoats) never receive enough, while always getting the most praise.
Just one of the things.
Pardew is getting the lions share now, a lot of it fairly so, but others are getting away with contributing very little and are just as bad.
Don’t agree with booing during the game at all. Fine at the end, but it is always counterproductive during.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
A point may well keep us in the PL JJ!
georgio(Quote)
Marv out? That’s jonas on the wing then…
Newkie(Quote)
I think when we look at previous managers records we need to understand that they had inherited a CL team, with a top mentality. Pardew inherited a newly promoted team. There’s no excusing how badly we’ve done, but the comparing with people like Souness is just daft imo.
Souness had some genuinely world class players – Shearer/Given/Speed/Solano were all top, top players.
We have a number of extremely talented players, but they all lack consistency, which is why they aren’t world class, and why they aren’t playing for a team competing for the league.
And just to wind up JJ, I had a look at Roeder’s incredible end of season run on Wiki, seems one man had a very big impact 😉
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Georgio,
My point is I don’t want him to sit back and defend (mainly because we can’t)…
If at the end of the day we get a point, I’ll be happy, but I don’t want him to set us up to get “something”. We must go there and push for a win.
JJ(Quote)
ST@45-Agreed. How peep can compare the squads is crazy, esp compared to the rest of the league.
Oh aye, and Shola is God 😆
Newkie(Quote)
Tiote out again!!
****, I wish we’d sold him last year. I truly believe the reason why we were linked to so many players but didn’t sign is that we were waiting for someone to swoop for a purple to fund it.
A machine on his day, but he’s not going to make 20 games this year 🙁
No point in him being counted as first team if he is always out injured, especially as he takes a few games to get up to speed.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Solano,
Shearer was 34/35 when Souness was here. Still good but far from world class. Speed was 35/36.
I don’t think he had a world class team at all. It was a team that was very good but had peaked and was on the decline.
Also, they main reason I said I think Roeder was one of our best ever managers is that he got Shola scoring goals! I mean, he must have had a magicians touch 😉
JJ(Quote)
I do think Souness was perhaps the worst managers in the transfer market ever though!
OWEN, BOUMSONG, LUQUE, AMDY FAYE, BABAYARO.
😯 😯
JJ(Quote)
JJ-what are you on about? Bobby sold Speed before Sourpuss arrived. Anyway, was still a top squad.
Newkie(Quote)
Prem – it’s a really good thought provoking article mate. One thing I picked up on was the part where you referring to racing your motorcycle and only listening to those who were as good as you.
Alot of the elite managers weren’t elite players and I would necassarily discount an opinion based on solely on ability, knowledge holds merit too IMO.
As for the booing during the match. I agree that no person should attend the ground with the sole intention of booing or chanting negativity during the match itself. Any protests can take place outside of the stadium before or after the game – such as ones that occurred after the renaming of SJP and not the mindless stupidity after the derby game.
However, whilst you go to a match with the intention of fully supporting your team, such is the emotional roller coaster of the game, people find themselves expressing such discontent.
But most fans will find themselves back in their seats the following week cheering the boys out and the hairs on the back of their necks stood to attention as ‘local hero’ booms out around the ground.
Sharpy17(Quote)
My bad on Speed.
He was still knocking them in though, and definitely added something to the mentality, you wouldn’t have got us rolling over against the mackems that’s for sure.
Not a worldclass team – but world class players, we signed Kluivert from Barca! Though he was pretty ***** for us..
@JJ well that surely adds to how you view a manager? Souness left our squad bloated with flops, if and when Pardew leaves our squad will be in a great position (even if it is down to the board)
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Or ST then, you clown! I was absolutely gutted when he left, the saddest thing SBR did (i don’t remember the day we bought bramble 😆 )
Speed at 40 would have been better than Alan Smith or Nicky **** ever were 😆
Newkie(Quote)
JJ @46 – agreed. Especially now I’ve heard Tiote and Marv out. Tiote won’t be greatly missed as he’s been **** poor all season but Marv has looked especially good. Perch and Anita in I guess or maybe Hatem is ready for a start. If he is then HBA for Marv and Perch for Tiote. I have a slight dread of watching it though.
georgio(Quote)
Kluivert wasn’t that bad for us…I mean, compared to some of the boys we’ve had over the years.. 😕
Newkie(Quote)
Sounds like Jonas will be starting again….. Honestly this season just gets worse and worse. I can’t wait for it to be over.
Feel sorry for Marv he hasn’t had a run of games yet in the first team and it looked like he was becoming a first team regular as well.
Santii(Quote)
It’s a really shame for Marv, think he’s been really good this season and was looking forward to seeing him and Benny in that midfield 3 with Sissoko – bet Cisse was as well!!
Sharpy17(Quote)
These are some of the things Pardew said in the press conference.
“The Europa League game definitely had an effect and a lot of clubs would have given right arm to be in the quarter-final of the Europa League and it was consequence of “going for it”.
Yeah for 20 minutes Alan good job mate. He obviously didn’t care that much about it like.
“We have five games and time to do work with the team and time for them to be refreshed. They know they carry a responsibility of this club to get results”.
You carry the same responsibility(No in fact more). You may hope things go right Alan it may well be the thing to save your hide for another season.
“It was a great day for Sunderland and for us a tough day. I would rather play and give it a good go in the quarter finals of the Europa League and they can only dream of that. Next year there is always another game”.
I wonder if that was his team talk? Again he gave it a good go for 20 minutes. We must be better Sunderland aren’t in Europe.
“Man Utd got beat 6-1 once by Man City and they got beat the other day but they have still won the league. For us it is done, it is history and we have to always carry it. We have to carry it like they have to with all the defeats we have inflicted on them”.
Man United have won the league AGAIN. We are looking good for relegation AGAIN. Thanks again Alan.
“It rounds off the season for us, with him and Tim Krul. It will be a 12 month injury for Ryan. We have had one after the other of cruel bad luck and he will miss whole of next season. It’s terrible for him”
Yep you are right there Alan. I’m sure you are gutted. At least you have yet another excuse lined up….
**** off Alan Pardew……
Santii(Quote)
Santi, can we not result to another pards bashing thread takeover? **** it i don’t really care, i’m out after work and don’t plan on coming back til 3pm tomorrow. Catch you all then.
Newkie(Quote)
The team needs our support, our whole support so picking out individuals to discriminate does not help the team ethics.
Kim – What did you think of the end of Spartacus?
On the bus home from school wanting to check the computer as I’ve had a reply from Aberdeen, want to see their offer.
Andymag(Quote)
Its new information Newkie so i just had to make fun of his embarrassing press conference 😀
Santii(Quote)
@santii
You have no alternatives to Pardew for manager.
How about some alternative words for what he should have said instead? Again after Europa most pundits and fans were unanimous on Pardew’s game plan.
Stop trolling.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
@ST
I can think of plenty alternatives that are better than Pardew.
Most fans are happy with 20 minutes of effort good for them I’m not. Defending whilst 2 goals down is embarrassing end of.
Santii(Quote)
Unsuccessful to Aberdeen and Dundee 🙁 , Stirling it is then 😀 .
Andymag(Quote)
Newkie don’t let it grind you down 😉 although it does get pretty boring hearing it day in day out and seeing endless parts of his comments pasted and regurgitated on here, especially when anyone can go and read the whole interview if they want.
Big Dave(Quote)
Santii vs the rest of the footballing world. My mind has changed. If you have a go at Pardew for the Benfica result – CL team, 2 individual mistakes, second game plan that almost took us to the semis – then you are just blinkered in your dislike. No point going any further.
Not going to go over the alternatives to Pardew again, people have yet to name a single name. They’ll bandy the whole “we aren’t the board, why should we find someone” thing about when it comes to managers, but are all experts on team transfers, madness.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Andy @61 , Brilliant and very moving . Ofcourse we know how it all ends ,well if you know roman history that is . All the same I wanted them (the rebels ) to all be ok such was my emotional attachment to the characters. I shall really miss it though ,best thing on t.v in yonks imo. Andy did you watch every season? if not you should as they were all good and so sad that Andy Whitfield passed away who played Spartacus in the first series. I did think Liam Mckintyre did a good job as his replacement though and what a class touch by the production team to show Andy shouting I am Spatacus at the end of the credits . 😎 .
Tell you what Andy I would love to see them make a series based around what happens with Ceaser and Pompey next and I noticed they alluded to future possible events in the last episode. Oh yes and in real life Gatticus didn’t die on the cross like that he had left Spartacus group of rebels by then but Crixus did lose his head . 😉 Sorry I’m hijacking this thread now and probably looking like a nerd too 😆
KIMTOON(Quote)
Andy ,What did Aberdeen say?
KIMTOON(Quote)
Andy,just seen your post re Aberdeen ,matters not where you go so long as you get the right result from it 🙂
KIMTOON(Quote)
Dont know whats the worst, the backlash from our fans or the gloating from the mackems, all of a sudden we are ***** and their future is rosy, after one game?
Pardew is right, we have had a long hard season and it has taken its toll on the squad, the same happened to Everton when they were in the Europa so we need to take a reality check here, we knew our squad wasnt big or good enough to do anything this season so why chew on when it turns out that way?
It could all change again at 5 o clock tomorrow, post mortems should be postponed until the end of the season and until then the team needs our support ( including Simpson and the rest of the camels)!
Robert(Quote)
Kim re Spartacus
Watched it from series 1. Thought the end credits was a nice touch too, someone I talked to said the ending was **** but I think they did well because it would be difficult to kill off the characters you’ve spent three/four years attached to and yet keep to the history of it. Hearing he died made me upset as he was brilliant as the part and seemed a nice guy.
Re Uni
Cheers, was hoping to get Aberdeen but will have to settle for Stirling which should be nice.
Andymag(Quote)
Kim/Andy – Re Spartacus, also a big fan and watched it from the start, preferred the original actor and sad he died so young. Been away this week so have the last one on Sky plus but know once I’ve watched it will be gutted its finished.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy ,you won’t be dissapointed mate it’s brilliant 🙂 enjoy.
KIMTOON(Quote)
**** ,sorry Sharpy ,just realised my post @68 is a massive spoiler for you 🙁 .
KIMTOON(Quote)