Tactic talk: Can we really accommodate two strikers?

A second striker, of sorts?
I was at work last night so unfortunately had to miss the game against QPR. I’ve made up for it since however and have watched it twice, right from start to finish.

Being honest it didn’t make for good viewing. We were lucky to get a point, but in all honesty I’d take it.

Over the years we’ve had more than our fair share of games which should have yielded better results thanks to the ‘on the night’ performances so forgive me for snatching an undeserved point when one comes along. I’d rather that than play well and have nothing to show for our efforts, which has been and will be the case again at some point.

It should have been the QPR show, the Joey Barton show, but it wasn’t. They may have deserved more from the game but ultimately the party was pooped by us. Call it poor finishing, poor play from us or anything you like, but the fact remains that we came away with a point and without conceding a goal.

On the other hand I feel that the game was there for the taking. QPR were always going to be up for it, and why shouldn’t they be? They’ve just got a new owner who has slashed ticket prices, sorted sponsorship deals and pandered to the fans since his arrival. They’ve signed an awful lot of players in a short space of time and I dare say that if we were in their shoes I dare say that we’d be riding the crest of a wave also.

It was never going to be easy but the fact that we were woeful from many perspectives made it even easier for Neil Warnock’s R’s.

The one area of concern was our attacking threat, or lack of it I should say. Leon Best and Shola Ameobi started up front for us and once again it was Best who came out on top. One striker tried whilst the other floundered. It’s the playing of two strikers that I’m questioning at the moment.

You see, in my opinion, our strength is in midfield. We have a lot of options in there, good options, that we can call upon. I don’t think many people dispute that. What also can’t be disputed is the fact that we are light in defence and light, in terms of quality and not numbers in this case, in attack.

To play two strikers you need to have a pair that will work together and feed off each other as well as bring others into play. I don’t think we have two strikers capable of doing that together at the moment. The closest I would say is Leon Best and Demba Ba in fairness which is the pair that I’d have started with last night given the brief glimpses of good work that we saw from the pair against Fulham.

We then have a problem when you start to think about including Hatem Ben Arfa. There is a lot of expectation on his shoulders, although I’m sure that he’ll handle it. He will be playing when he is fit though so we need to accommodate him, which brings us back to the having room for two strikers argument.

I just don’t think there is if truth be told. The 4-4-2 has a time and a place, but that time and place is rapidly decreasing. It doesn’t suit our strengths and it doesn’t counter other teams who are also of the same mindset as I am. We need to get more modern!

I suppose to illustrate my point I should you some fancy graphics, so have a look below and see what you think of my general musings.

What it was vs what it could be.

On the left we have what we were faced with last night. Look at the amount of space in front of defence and midfield. It’s not hard at all to exploit it and when you combine that with a few shoddy performances you can see perhaps part of the reason why we were lucky to come away from Loftus Road with a point for our ‘effort’ if that is what you can call it.

QPR had three in their midfield which immediately outnumbers our two. Add to that the fact that neither striker really tracked back to help out and you can see perhaps why they were overrun. It happens. It was a tactical mistake which Alan Pardew has admitted so at least we know that he has seen what we see.

The issue is how to deal with that acknowledgement, which is where I’d like to draw your attention to the image on the right of the two above. In my mind that 4-2-3-1 kind of setup plays to the strengths of our team when everyone is fit. It gives us options not only in terms of personnel but in terms of play aswell.

Let’s look at the way it can work in game first of all. The like of Cheik Tiote and Yohan Cabaye act as the anchor men or deep lying playmakers. That fits their strengths. Tiote is a ball winner who has limitations when it comes to creating stuff whilst Cabaye likes to pop the ball about and they can do so whilst dropping back to help with the defensive side of things and sit in front of the back four if needed. They can advance and retreat depending on which phase of play we are at. Push up in attack and sit deep when defending. Sorted.

Moving onto the more attacking side of things. I’ve put Hatem Ben Arfa as the man “in the hole”. There have been enough caveats dropped to suggest that his role will be behind the striker. It could just as easily be Gabriel Obertan or Jonas Gutierrez however as both of those players have the ability to play in that position. In fact I remember Jonas especially making a good fist of it at Chelsea towards the back end of last season.

The benefit of having a player there is that they can link play and also drop back and help out in midfield should the need arise. They can also run the ball out of midfield and link up with a striker meaning that whoever is in attack (Demba Ba in the image, although it could easily be Best in fairness) has support who isn’t, shall we say, static?

You then have the two wingers, or outside forwards, or whatever you wish to call them. I’ve used Gabriel Obertan and Jonas Gutierrez but they could just as easily be occupied by Ben Arfa or Sylvain Marveaux. They too can drop back and advance as and when required. They can even join up with the striker and assist him.

My preferred tactic is a very fluid system which allows for plenty of movement and gives us plenty of options in both attack and defence. It plays to our strengths in terms of the players that we have who are likely to be starting, and it plays to our strengths in terms of players who we have waiting in the wings. Dan Gosling can cover any number of those positions for example, as can Danny Guthrie perhaps, and Haris Vuckic, and Sammy Ameobi. The wingers can switch about and play in different positions depending on the opponent and how a particular game is panning out. It gives us options.

Obviously it doesn’t help out our lack of numbers in defensive areas, but short of playing one at the back I don’t see how we can accrue any decent backup until the next transfer window anyway so we’re always going to be reliant a little bit on luck. It’s not ideal but it is what it is.

What needs to be done is for a way to be found which can utilise the players we know we have at our disposal, and I think my 4-2-3-1 kind of nails that, even if I do say so myself. With it we don’t need to accommodate two strikers and it ensures that we get all of our creative players on the pitch.

I don’t usually take part in this tactical stuff online, but it’s something that I’ve been pondering for a while now so just thought I’d put it ‘out there’. I hope you’ve enjoyed the musings from my virtual tactic board, but what I really want to know is if you can see my point?

What do you reckon?

About toonsy

A lifelong Newcastle fan and current webmaster of this very 'blog who has the sole aim of creating a place by Newcastle United fans, for Newcastle United fans.

88 thoughts on “Tactic talk: Can we really accommodate two strikers?

  1. This was how I thought Pardew intended to set us up this season, but it seems he has no faith in the system without Ben Arfa?

    Given, as you say, Gutierrez’s sterling work against Chelsea last year, I’d play him there with Obertan/Marv on the wings.

    Alternatively, hand injury aside, I think Vuckic could play the ‘Ben Arfa’ role well if given Arfa chance.

    (Sorry).

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  2. Toonsy big fan of the proposed tactics. Definitely should be the way forward. Strength is in the midfield, importance to use Cabaye and Ben Arfa to full potential in proper roles.

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  3. i have been banging on saying we should play one in the hole for months and months. its obvious as we dont suit 4 4 2 at all. As for the strikers… humm… sell all but one of them, then buy one top notch striker on good salary. if you had strollers, lovens, ba’s, rangers salaries all together it will give us 100k + a week, go get a real one, not one of these pretend fellas we have now. Have Best to back him up, play the ‘one in the hole’ formation and we will be stronger everywhere. And we would still have Sammy also smapping at bests heels.
    Just throwing on stroller every week, week in, week out is soul destroying for fans. The man is an enigma.. how the fuk has he survived so long when all others have fell by the side of the road.
    Tiote is **** this season and needs a spell on the bench also.

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  4. I`ve said the same thing on here for a while now, no successful fluid team plays 4:4:2 anymore, I think Tiote should be rested and Gosling playing alongside Cabaye, until Benny is back play Obertan in the hole behind BA/BEST with Jonas on the right and Marveax on the left but essentially it`s the correct formation for me. Seems Kadar played well today for the reserves, so that`s a bonus too.

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  5. With the resources we have it has to to be 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1.
    Best is in the in form striker so he gets the nod for now but I know I am going to get shot down in flames but the lone striker role suits shoala’s game more than in a pair.
    For saturday I would rest Shoala and bring in Marveux for a start but would love to see young Sammy get some game time. Just thought he was more menacing than Obertan who was neat and tidy but never got at his full back all night.
    Another thing wrong with us at the minute is our full backs are not getting forward past the wide men to stretch the opposition defence. Hopefully with Tiote and Cabbaye in the roles you predict they will have more licence to roam forward. But all of this depends on the starting position of Saylor and Colo they must not be defending the 18 yard line or everybody else has to retreat.

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  6. Pardew should have had this **** worked out and tried and tested in the pre season ffs.
    Seriously its not rocket science, just needs practice playing together.
    Preferably on one continent 😈

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  7. Headline on the official website is:

    “Beardley’s Joy of Six”

    This pun wasn’t funny when it was used 20 years ago and the million other times since. Plus, it might bring up visions for wives and girlfriends of actually having sex with Peter the Great.

    It brought up visions for me of that picture where his bollocks are hanging out.

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  8. Bardsley has been charged with violent conduct, great news and fully deserved, after his challenge on Collocini he is out of control.
    What has mystified me is, apart from Kamara on Sunday morning, there has been a virtual media blackout regarding the incident as if it never happened, shameful.
    And by my reckoning, the mackems have escaped 5 certain red cards already in the 4 games they have played this season, Richardson at Liverpool, Larrson Cattermole and Bardsley v Us and Bardsley v Chelsea, just shows how you cant rely on stats as had they been punished correctly they would get the press they deserve instead of the sympathy vote.

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  9. Totally agree Toonsy. I actually think we could be playing this formation with a number of injuries in the side. Plenty of depth and even versatility throughout our midfield to make it work somehow.

    I agree with others in saying Jonas should be handed the role in the hole after doing it wonderfully against Chelsea.

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  10. Thinking about things even more as to why Pardew hasn’t been playing this formation is that I don’t think Marveaux, ferguson, Sameobi, or Guthrie have been fit enough to start a game. Although Gosling has been ready and fired up since preseason, so I’m confused again.

    We better see this formation against Villa, especially without Shola, or I think we will all start dreading things before a ball is kicked

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  11. #3-Craig Chisholm it is a mystery but like I read the other day he must be a world beater in training, only way to explain it. Or has dirt on not this owner or the last but the premier league? It’s baffling how he has stayed this long and got a 2 year contract extension. Toby, Shola is not a hard word to spell mate.

    With the tatics, I hope Ben Arfa can live up to his potential he had a few years ago, back then I would never have thought we could have bought him. I agree we need a top quality striker to play the lone role, you can have all the craft of Ben Arfa but if the strikers move like lamp-posts then he’s just a big waste of money unless he does an everton every game.

    I can’t wait to see him against forest hope Santon plays too. I was at the reserve game today (I know it’s just reserves) and he looked confident and steady, Gosling looked excellent and Fergie looked very bright hope they all play against forest only bodes well for the future I reckon.

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  12. Exactly, we should be making the new formation work ready for HBA to slip into when he is fit again, not waiting for him to come back and then starting with it from scratch.

    Ha ha. Good work agent Bruce 😆
    Keep up the good work and it will be all over by xmas.

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  13. I think a reason the defensive line was so deep is to help Raylor out and his lack of pace and marking ability. With santon in, our defensive line will be much higher, making our attack more potent as well.

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  14. “Just throwing on stroller every week, week in, week out is soul destroying for fans. The man is an enigma.. how the fuk has he survived so long when all others have fell by the side of the road.”

    SOUL DESTROYING…

    I want to cry when I see Sholas name on the team sheet.

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  15. good ideas. i think the reason jonas has been on the left wing this season, after his impressive show against chelsea is more to do with Raylor than with jonas.

    i like the idea of Barfa and Jonas switching from middle to left if required. however the only failing is that a 4-2-3-1 gievs the impression we are matching up with teams who play 3 in the middle. in reality, this is unlikely as Barfa will not drop as deep as suggested.

    perhaps this is why it may be an idea to let Barfa have a free role coming from the left hand side (something zidane, and to a lesser extent mcmanaman used to do) and have the more industrious jonas play off the striker in the middle.

    just throwing it out there. love the blog by the way.

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  16. @19- interesting points there. I’d love to see a three man line of Marvaeux/Ben Arfa/Jonas with the freedon for each to overlap a bit.

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  17. MDS, I honestly haven’t really seen enough of Marveaux this year to say he should overtake obertan. Cabaye and obertan had some good movement and passing together yesterday. Plus, obertan knows this league, unlike Marv.
    Maybe someday though.

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  18. Strola is so frustrating,for 90 minutes we rode our luck, created nothing and came away with a point which ain’t so bad. Who would have thought we’d be fourth in the league after 4 games? I thought Best could do no more than he did, the service to him and Strola was non existent and last night showed they will never be a decent pairing.

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  19. yeah JJ… i could weep at the amount of top strikers we have had in our time and look at that sorry sack of **** ffs… we could have had bellamy back for free ffs. i would rather play with 6 mid fielders.. really, i would, arfa and anyone.

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  20. Omar, that’s a decent thought about HBA, but he is going to want the ball, and to do that, he will have to player closer to the center mids than the striker.

    That’s also a really good point about why Jonas has been on the left. He has been huge for Raylor so far this season. The only player that could have possibly done as well is Shane ferguson, but with his injury in preseason, that wasn’t going to happen for these games

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  21. Fairly off topic, but i thought it very strange to have kadar at right back for the reserves today. But i guess Santon needed the practice at LB and apparently dummet is far less sure on the opposite side.
    The reserves played with 3 fulbacks today, yet the only recognized centerback played right back, when he is left-footed. Seemed to work though

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  22. andyT.. why strange mate.. santon has been brought in for LB to replace jose.. the LB will be his normal position.

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  23. Haha, Craig, I actually sortnof agree about playing 6 midfielders. Gosling seems to love attacking the goal! Sammy can literally do wonders already! 4-2-4 formation against Villa?

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  24. Pardew made a few tactical missteps last year, like playing 3-5-2 against Stoke, and he seemed to learn from his mistakes and move on to other ideas. I trust (or maybe just hope) that he’ll move on from this and play a 4-5-1 with either Best or Ba up top. If he persists with the 4-4-2 and/or Shola up top, we’ll start to turn on him, and with good reason.

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  25. Agree Charlie. No more 4-4-2 against anyone, anywhere. It never worked in preseason, and it hasn’t worked a single time this year. Whenever we have switched to a lone striker with quick and talented midfielders behind him, we have started to control the game.

    I know its ‘only’ the league cup, but we were ***** against Scunny until we switched to 4-5-1. Once the change happened, we bossed the game and Sammy was able to score

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  26. well lets just hope the penny has dropped with Pardew too.
    Cant wait for saturday to find out.

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  27. I’m looking forward to the Champions League tonight, I’ll be watching it with one eye whilst finishing studies 🙂

    Oh and in terms of formation I think the game last night showed that we needed that extra man in midfield. The formation outlined by Toonsy should work very well with the players we currently have.

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  28. It does make sense to use that formation with the team we have.

    I’d use Marveaux instead of Jonas.
    I’m not a huge Jonas fan. Lots of work with no end product.
    I do recognise his importance last season when he was the only player we had with any pace. However this is no longer the case.

    It also means Shola Ameobi is less likely to start.

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  29. Marveaux does seem to track back a bit, and he’s been playing in games for the past few weeks. Marv could start out left with Jonas “in the hole” dribbling around and picking out short passes.

    The defensive line will be much higher now that we’ll have a LB with pace.

    I’m kind of glad we got bossed last night as now Pardew has had a bit of a wake-up call as to how he needs to organize the squad

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  30. As highly as I rate Sameobi, I think he’ll only start in the cup games for now, if at all. Although he is a fantastic impact sub. Such a shame he only got to play for a fee minutes

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  31. Am I the only one who thinks that Pards was actually just trying out different tactics against a weaker team? I’d rather him experiment with easier opposition than with games that we NEED to win like. Idk, maybe I’m just an apologist lol.

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  32. OH- I think Pardew mostly got away from the 5 man MF when Ben Arfa got hurt. But as others have said, I think Gosling can and should be used in that role until Ben Arfa returns. Apparently Golsing played in that role today behind donaldson so maybe Pards is ready to make that switch.

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  33. MDS, I would be very happy to see Gosling in that role against Villa. He’s not so much a tricky creator as a player that goes for goal whenever he can. I can see a positive result if he plays there.

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  34. John – the problem with playing with an extra defender is that we haven’t got an extra one to call upon.

    That’s the beauty of this formation. It utilizes the resources we have right now.

    Thinking back, everytime we’ve reverted to one up top with one behind we’ve looked a lot better and the performance has improved. I think anyway 😆

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  35. Do you think the Board will realise the size of their incompetence now we are 4th in the Premiership having scored just three goals? Just think how even Talksport might talk of us as a big club if we had a striker and not Shola.

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  36. Exactly Toonsy! Every single time we have switched to the lone striker, we have suddenly started dominating the game. If pardew misses this on Saturday, I’ll be extremely disappointed

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  37. that team what it could be looks canny good like.

    I seriously want sammy to start next game like, having said that everyone would jump on his back if he plays bad, eg. Ranger vs Villa, having said that Ranger is pure ****.

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  38. Cheers Zoe FFS I thought it was going to be one of the bigger players the way they went on 🙂
    Spence did you not even watch the match lastnight Lad

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  39. aye man, went out with a few lads last night to watch the match and have a few games of pool, all good like 🙂

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  40. Big dave 🙂 quality stuff!

    Toonsy its always a funny one this extra mid and it seems strange that pards hasn’t noticed the need for it yet. He has a wealth of options there so would want the 4-5-1 but at home you have got to have two strikers surely as we normally take the game to the opposition

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  41. Zoe as your screen saver 🙂
    Spence thats good have you made any friends yet or are you still borrowing them 🙂
    Liam Pards did say lastnight that he left it too long to revert to 4 5 1, I do agree that at home we should go with 2 up top but just not the 2 we had lastnight

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  42. well since i just said i went to hustlers last night with a few lads I think that might be a yes, they other people say they want them back at some point like. 🙁

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  43. Spence what do you think of the turncoat Batty ? I bet you were surprised to know that he thinks the Fatman is doing the best job he can and deserves more credit

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  44. If we do get another striker – and clearly Pardew feels we need one – it needs to be a different kind of striker to the ones we already have…someone who can link play between mf and the target man, is fast and who can be clever. If the striker we buy IS the target striker, well….okay, so long as the support is Ben Arfa or possibly Gosling or a much improved Ba.

    I feel, though, that even what we have now will do a lot better and get much improved service if we play the right mf/wingers. Even the 6-0 against Norwich reserves hints at possibilties! I honestly think we have the personnel to be exciting now. It’s maybe time to be brave and not pick the “bleedin’ obvious” team each time!

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  45. Spence he was saying the otherday that Fatman is doing a decent job and doesn’t deserve all the stick he gets.

    Adam I think Ba will do ok aslong as he stays injury free, and I think we will be hopeing that Benny can play the No 10 roll well, but I just think it will take him a while to get up and running, and I just hope he gets that time before the Fans start getting on his back which I think they will

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  46. **** off, fat man deserves a stick up his **** when some one is kicking his face in like.

    Word had it the other day that pardew wasn’t in the meetings with any of the strikers.

    so llambese and Ashley were probably offering them like 20k a week.

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  47. Spence Pards said allready that he just tells owlheed and Co who he wants and its then up to them to do the deal. I take by your avatar that you still think Pards is the puppet

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  48. Liam @60, I actually think we should keep the 4-2-3-1 for every game. At home we can push the wingers up more to sort of make it a 4-3-3. We just have so much quality in midfield that it needs to be used over our mediocre strike force

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  49. Totally agree – in fact I posted this myself yesterday, haha

    The ‘wing forwards’ must work hard in this formation and be comfortable cutting in onto their ‘weaker’ foot. It certainly seems that we have the personnel to make it work. With some time to get used to it, I reck it’s the way forward… starting with Villa on Sat hopefully

    2 changes for Villa – Marveaux as the advanced midfielder and Best starting in place of Ba

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