We all know the drill by now. We scout players thoroughly and look for value and potential in any player we sign, whether that be potential for a player to improve or for his value to increase, or both. We value them and won’t go above what we think a player is worth. If the club wants more than that then we move on to the next carefully scouted potential acquisition.
We’ve acquired quite a fearsome reputation in this respect and it earned us many plaudits last season. We basically reinvented a squad with the cash from the sale of one player and spread it across the whole team improving it beyond recognition and beyond expectation. Basically we rewrote the book of how to improve a team and showed that it doesn’t always take Arab oil money to achieve an upturn in league positioning.
Could our reputation be hindering us this time around though? Graham Carr is now a well know scout thanks to all of the publicity he has received, arguably more publicity than any other scout at any other club has been adorned with. He has become symptomatic of our approach in the transfer market and, generally speaking, his judgement hasn’t been far wrong in terms of incoming players.
My worry is that other teams will have twigged this, not only teams we are looking to compete with who will will try and steal in on the back of our hard work, but also teams that we are trying to cut a deal with may suddenly look at their own valuation of a player and question it. Could it be a case of Newcastle being interested so there must be a reason to inflate the price?
At the end of the day it’s still very much early days in the transfer window and I’m nowhere near panicking yet, but the way that FC Twente have acted over Luuk de Jong, with his ever inflating transfer fee, has made me wonder about it all. Granted de Jong is not exactly in the “relatively unknown” bracket we seem to have been operating in, and neither is Mathieu Debuchy after impressing at EURO 2012, but even so the fees being mentioned are higher than what they were.
Time will tell of course, but I worry that the transfer policy that has served us so well could have come to the end of the line as other teams start to wise up to it.
P.S: A bit of an oddity has appeared. ESPN are listing two of our friendlies for live TV coverage, those being the clash with Monaco on Monday July 16th (6pm) and a clash with Fenerbahce on Saturday 21st July (again 6pm). The oddity occurs as these fixtures have yet to be confirmed by Newcastle United. So anyway, we might have some football to watch next week!
sure we got Deal for 1m and amfalintino on a free just think the bigger name like De Jong an Debuchy we will be force to pay based on our track record because clubs can demand a fee they both went to the euro championships, give it time we will unearth another gem this transfer window… a target none of the papers have identified …. so nobody striker for 2.2m anf he get 20goals next season haha i can hope cant i 😛
John Graham(Quote)
geal for 1m ***
John Graham(Quote)
Toonsy ,Good read and I raised this point yesterday .I’m sure we will find it much harder to sign players with our existing remit. We have been found out ,no doubt about it and frankly we were never going to be able to operate in that way for too long given our success with recent signings. If a club knows we are interested in one of their players ,they know we will try top get them on the cheap and make a later profit on them ,so it stands to reason they would want a bit /lot more now. Quite where that leaves us is anyones guess ,do we start looking further afield as in south America as some have suggested ?. Well o.k but then you have permit problems unless they are regular internationals and then they don’t come cheap 🙄 . At some point we will have to start paying a higher price for players ,even if they only show promise .The real answer to this conumdrum is to invest heavily in a top youth set up and bring on our youngsters ,which maybe the club are now trying top do .The immediate problem is that we have to try and maintain parity with the top clubs ,not easy given they are all strengthening with big signings whilst we have to seemingly go bargain hunting again.
kimtoon(Quote)
@3 ,For some reason I put TOP not TO twice 😳
kimtoon(Quote)
Toon friendlies live on ESPN:
16th July v Monaco and 21st July v Fenerbache 6pm start
3hourswasted(Quote)
Possibly, but as soon as we start giving in to other teams ridiculous valuations (e.g. De Jong) it’ll send out the signal for all teams to try it on with us. Far better to stick to our guns imo.
Hopefully in the long run the strategy is to get in lots of promising kids and have them come through the system. We could be seeing the seeds being set now, but it’s a bit early to tell.
Jon R(Quote)
I dont think it makes the policy redundant, its just got a little harder. I think the fact that we still pay transfers fees up front is a big appeal to selling clubs and in the market we are mainly focussing on (France / Holland / Germany etc) there are still a lot of teams that will find it hard to turn down a decent up front offer from us.
Doesnt look like De Jong will happen but you never know if nobody meets their valuation – transfers these days are long drawn out affairs with a lot of brinkmanship involved because of the transfer windows.
If it doesnt happen then I am sure we will move onto another target.
Toon Stew(Quote)
Toonsy I think we have been sussed out a few of us said months ago that we won’t be able to keep living of freebies and bargains because it won’t last forever.
Big Dave(Quote)
Jon@6 That’s the point though , given the fact that the club won’t give way in the price war as it were and I tend to agree with that stance, where does that leave us right now. The future could be bright with our youth policy strategy in place ,but that will take time to come good. In the meantime we need to keep pace with those around us last season and we are still short on numbers and quality and that is most evident at the back . Quite what the answer is I’m not sure ,hopefully Carr has a couple of aces up his sleeve this season.
kimtoon(Quote)
I often come on here to read posts-through “newsnow” and I have to say Toonsy is one of my favs! This is the very point I’ve been at pains to make on my forum “Teamtalk” yoursay! I think I’m finally breaking through. I think Mike will adjust his transfer strategy accordingly-but we can’t take anything for granted!! Great post mate! Unfortunately I’m not a regular reader-as the turnaround is so fast-but I like the way you lot respond to each other’s posts!
David-Barber’s Toon(Quote)
Problem is I don’t have ESPN so will prob rely on someone with a decent link, the only time I did that previously was Chelsea (a) and we know how that turned out 😎
Andymag(Quote)
You win some you lose some, we lost a few in previous windows before all this “being sussed” talk started.
Generally you have to pay for quality, that’s true in all walks off life, picking up a bargain feels great to but there has to be a balance. Yep look for the bargains but also be prepared to pay quality money at times for a quality player……it works, just look at Cisse.
As long as the club gets the balance right, we’ll hopefully do ok this window.
Ref De Jong, I think the clubs offer was good enough and glad they didn’t go any higher, hopefully that indicates that the club will spend “decent” money…..time will tell, still early days yet…as usual I won’t be holding my breath though 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Nothing wrong with our policy at all…. there are shed loads of clubs in finacial strife… so that would tell me that it is still a buyers market.. clubs in this position will ask for big coin for their best players up front but at the end of the day, they will take the best offer. We pay up front which will excite the poorer clubs.. keep up the good work Dekka an Carr 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
I think it is way way too early to even suggest that, I think with the likes of De Jong and Debouchy we are now looking at players in the higher bracket of prices but I dont think that will have any impact on us bringing in players. I think I remember Pardew saying he wanted to bring in 5 new players and a few players for the development squad. No reason why that has or will change in my mind.
Johno Toon(Quote)
Good article Toonsy, great point to raise.
I understand we have to be careful in the transfer market, we don’t have the kind of money that the likes of City, Chelsea and other clubs can pay for fees and wages – I get that.
But here’s my problem/concern … and I’m sure people will pick the bones out of this and point out our financial restraints but here it is anyway:
We have set up a brilliant scouting system, which rates players not just on footballing ability but also things like how the player would fit into the team personality wise and other aspects which work well and have ensured we have brought in some really good players. Players that young Geordies can look up to and respect (which I know doesn’t win trophies, but is important to me as a fan & dad).
Having scouted these players so thoroughly and identifying players who are young and fit our wage structure. We should then be then signing these players!!!
We ask Graham Carr to find these players and tick all the boxes – one of the boxes being players that could be acquired within a certain price bracket. Lets be right, we are not asking him to scout Messi or Ronaldo here.
So having a list of players that we have spent time and money on identifying these players, we should then be hell bent on getting them in. I know we have to negotiate with the selling club, who generally value these players higher. But more often than not we are talking the difference of a couple of million or less.
We need to get the deal done, otherwise, really what the point in such restrict scouting or refusing to sign players under a certain age?!
Sharpy17(Quote)
@Kim – yeah it’s difficult to know what to do. I guess we have to play it smart and look for people on frees or one year left on their contract, people with clauses, and people who’ve made it clear they want to leave their current club. We only need about 3 signings I reckon, and we seem to have a budget of about £20m, so there should still be plenty out there for us!
Jon R(Quote)
I hope no one panics yet because the transfermarket only JUST opened and you haven’t seen clubs getting more than 2-3 players in yet.
I think we should focuse the cash on youth players and only bring 1-2 top signings.
Let the youngsters get some PRL experience and take some chances that may benefit us next season.
our goal this season is not trying to challenge for a 4th place it is building stabilty hopefully get into europe again and maybe even get a good solid cup run.
I am not excited about De Jong or Debuchy, i am excited by youngsters and the possibility of seeing Vuckic, Sameobi, and Ferguson this year taking the step up and prove their talent.
Our transfer policy shouldnt change just because some clubs wants more.. we should just stick to it and wait for the rough diamond again (Tiote, Cisse, Cabaye, Barfa)
we got the right players because we were patient..
Danishtoon(Quote)
You can hold your breath if you want Richie 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Sharpy – in fairness though we have got the deals done in the past haven’t we? You’re criticizing them for things which they haven’t even done. Seems a bit unfair mate 😉
Jon R(Quote)
Sharpy I agree mate and wouls add that all agents etc talk so before we go in for a player I would be 99% sure that Carr and Co would know how much the players value is, as that would be one of the boxes that needs to be ticked.
So don’t mess about and pay the going rate for players that play in positions that we are weak in.
As for we only need 1or2 quality players, we needed that last season before we lost 4-5 players with prem experience, so I don’t know how that would work.
I as a fan want us to get quality players to improve our team, I don’t need to look after Jabba’s money he already has people that do that for him.
Big Dave(Quote)
Big Dave:
I see where you are going but i would be excited if we could focuse on youth rather than splash the cash.
Arsenal has done this for years and i would be satisfied challenging for top 6 every season without bringing in top dollar names.
I would love to see Newcastle in the top but it is not realistic with the amount of money we have and i would prefer a healthy structure for the the club.
DanishToon “medisterpølse”(Quote)
Big Dave – who are we messing about with? De Jong himself has said of the 20m euro valuation:
“I was amazed to hear this. FC Twente, my agent Louis Laros and Borussia Monchengladbach indicated that a transfer fee of €12m (£9.6m) plus €2m (£1.6m) in bonuses, would do, if I agreed with FC Twente to drop my contracted right to 20 per cent of the transfer fee.”
That was roughly what we offered, and clearly it was the going-rate until Twente decided to start playing silly beggars. It’s them who’s messing about, not us.
Jon R(Quote)
Jon – I’m not criticizing mate, just raising concerns and potential pitfalls to the way we work. It has came off in the past but with a huge element of luck. Think about it, we walked away from Cisse that time last year! … it was only thanks to Freiburg signing a new striker in Jan that we managed to get him in Jan, and yes we got him at a reduced price – but IMO that’s was huge good fortune rather than good judgement, hence why the deal was hurried through.
I just think that with all of the work that goes into identifying the players, we need to then sign them. Other clubs seem to manage it!, having players signed up before the window even opens.
According to De Jong himself, before Twente upped his price to £16m, they had agreed a fee of £9.5m with £1.5m bonuses – that’s from the player himself, whos agent is his dad, so I’d think that would be fairly accurate. If reports are correct, we offered £10m – so we are £1m out?!
I keep reading this money up front being favorable but I’m not sure how often that has been a deal breaker like?!
Sharpy17(Quote)
Dave do you know if they have let dog out of the nick yet ❓
batty(Quote)
Danish I don’t want top dollar names 🙄 I just want quality players that are capable of helping us progress in the top 6-7 of the prem,
Yeah I would like to see the younguns step up but every season we have been saying that this season is the season for Vuckic Sammi etc to step up but they havn’t and I don’t think they will until they get regular footie which means loaning them out.
Big Dave(Quote)
Toonsy this happened to arsenal. henry, viera, bergkamp, pires, overmars, petit, rvp, fabregas, clichy the list goes on; all cost less than 11 million. even if you take inflation into account he still got these players on the cheap
as time goes on and (like u said) other clubs see this policy working they wise up and say, no, we want more money for these players if you want them
wenger and arsenal say no we will not pay more , “we have a policy and stick to it”
now look at the arsenal fans; in uproar as there players are now leaving year in year out because of this policy
that being said, we are not arsenal and i think we should stick to guns as long as possible, but we also MUST realise we cant take the **** with these clubs
de jong and debuchy are first class internationals, and their clubs will only accept over the top offers.
the same as we will for likes of cabaye, ba, tiote etc
do to others as you would like done to yourselves and all that!
doitforsirbobby(Quote)
Big Dave-
it would be nice with some quality signings but i love the way we brought Tiote in and the way he has turned out to be a top PRL player and i would like us to do that more.
take a chance with De Jong and pay 15 mill for him or take a chance with two lesser known names for the same price.. it is the same for me.
DanishToon “medisterpølse”(Quote)
Jon – that’s the point tho, it’s an amount agree with BM – not us!, yes Twente have allegedly changed the valuation, but I still see De Jong leaving Twente this summer … but to BM not us, which means all our scouting has been a waste of time. It also means we are not signing players Pardew has identified as a main target and we end up with 2nd or 3rd choice target because we weren’t prepared to cough up that extra £1-2m to secure the player.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Batts Ice gets out tonight or tomorrow I think it was only 5 days he got but might have been 7 ❓
Big Dave(Quote)
Arsenal fans are ungrateful…
Look at the clubs above them.
Man United is in debt up to their eyeballs, Man City is a joke club based on Arabs playing fantasy football. Chelsea is the Russian version of Man City.
So only really Spurs and Arsenal have been run well…
Man U will buckle when Fergie leaves…
Liverpool is a joke at the moment too…
We were in the same mould as them not long ago. Now our policy is finally earning us some respect.
JJ(Quote)
Sharpy – I’m afraid I don’t see the point you’re making. You think if we had offered £11m they would have sold him to us? But BMG offer £11m and they won’t sell him to them? I think it’s much more likely that if we’d have offered £11m like BMG we’d have gotten the same response that they did: “actually we’ve changed our minds we want £16m”. And that is my point: people are making out as if WE’RE going in with crazy low offers and pissing about, but in actual fact it is Twente who are changing the goal-posts.
Jon R(Quote)
Dave – get in!! think that’s the first time you’ve agreed with me 😉 😀
Danish – bagging Tiote and even Cabaye the way we did was excellent business and very shrewd. But let’s be right, we aren’t going to sign every player in such a way, think about it Tiote = £3.5m – Best = £3m. We aren’t gonna get that kinda luck every time. Plus, Twente look at Tiote and think, Newcastle aren’t gonna get a bargain like that again.
The truth is that £15m probably could have secured De Jong and Douglas – that would be fair money but we’ve tried to save £1-2m on the deal which delays players coming in or looses players to rival bidders, and when you have a Billionaire owner – that stinks a bit like!
Sharpy17(Quote)
We are also buying high risk players. Hence the discount. Our policy is not to pay the price for established players. It is not simply a case of let’s pay over the odds for the first choice on list. Coz the extra would buy an established player. It’s not only the cash price it’s the overall package.
Premandup(Quote)
I am suprised because we have let two strikers go now and dont see why either of them couldnt have been squad players?
I think pardew must have a striker lined up but I think he is flooding the midfield and will play a lot of 4-5-1 next year with technical pacey players like marveaux, HBA supplying one target man ie ba or cisse.
I would really start to worry if we dont get a striker, CB, and FB.
We have signed two mids so it would appear unlikely that we will buy another winger.
Could see rosales, douglas and still convinced de jong could join
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
Jon – yeah, I think if we had of went over and offered £11m cash up front he’d be a Newcastle player by now – I know there is no way to prove that, but BMG didn’t offer £11m, they offered £9.5m with 1.5m add ons. Twente then say £16m, which I think is just delay tactics til they line up De Jongs replacement, then they will sell him to BMG.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy….who knows who offered what, depending on what link you read we’ve offered between £8m and £12m for De Jong and £5-£7m for Douglas. FC Twente are supposedly asking for €20m 😯 they ain’t going to get it, they’ll come down like you say but even if we offer the same as BM it’s doubtful we’ll get him, he seems to want to go to Deutschland unfortunately 🙁
richietoon(Quote)
Richie – you may be right. But then look at Debuchy, who apparently wants to come to us and were pissing about there aswell. We did it with Mariappa aswell – and regardless how us fans rate him, he was wanted by Pardew, Tomkins was also another one.
Sharpy17(Quote)
We’re pissing about how?……doing the same as every other club, by going in with a lowish offer, come to a mutual agreement and buy, or can’t agree a fee and move on. Every club does it, why should we be different?
richietoon(Quote)
Richie has hit the nail on the head.. everyones assumptions on here are based on what they have read in the papers.. no one knows the truth other than those directly involved.. I base my evaluation on our transfer policy on what we have achieved not what the papers say we are doing….
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Jon@31 ,I think you are spot on about the De Jong situation ,Twente are just being plain greedy now and moving the goal post .But I wouldn’t waste a second more on De Jong as he obviously wants away to Germany and he’s too expensive now ,£10m was about right imo , that’s just my valuation ,nowt to do with saving MA cash. If Spuds can land Adebayor for £8m then why can’t we go in for Guidetti for £6 or 7 or even 8m ,after all he did as well as De Jong last season pretty much. 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
Sharpy, Lille will not sell Debuchy until they have a replacement.. So the deal is more than likely agreed but can’t happen until they get a new defender on board..
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Sharpy@35 – I think we’ll have to agree to disagree mate 😉
Jon R(Quote)
Aussie@41 ,that’s the worry though as if there is a better player than him ,then everyones gonna want him too ,which means they have to pay top wack which means they have to ask more for Debuchy ,which means we will most likely walk away , and so we lose out again 🙄 .
kimtoon(Quote)
I got a headache now 😉 time for lunch .
kimtoon(Quote)
Kim, there’s that glass is half empty thing again 🙂 🙂 love the thought process but I think you should have a little faith and Debuchy will be through our doors soon
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Kim…a “replacement” doesn’t necessarily mean better though 😉 …I’d guess they’ll look for a cheaper player who can do a decent job for them or a young, cheap player with potential.
richietoon(Quote)
“I got a headache now”……the phrase Aussie hears more than any other from lasses 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Kim, it is a little like asking a good friend out for lunch and a drink… if they can’t make I you go for the lesser option and invite Richie instead 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
We are on the right track and we should hold firm in our faith
Whoarya(Quote)
Aussie….buying me lunch certainly isn’t the “lesser” option
richietoon(Quote)
‘Was that it’ is another phrase I hear a lot 🙂 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
😆
richietoon(Quote)
On the plus side, if ya still hearing it you’re still getting it 😉 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Yeah mate 🙂 🙂 my wife only said the other night that I was ‘incredibly adequate’ 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
big improvement on the time before then…..you always have to lower the tone 👿 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Sorry mate, I forgot all about your sensitive disposition 🙂 back to the football 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
I would gladly castrate lee ryder with a spoon
CC(Quote)
I would gladly supply you with the aforementioned spoon 😈
richietoon(Quote)
Why is that CC? Lee is only reporting what he has read in other papers and twitter…
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Hmmm ! why does this subject seem familiar, oh yes ! now i remember I wrote similar articles on another blog, on a couple of occasions.
Well not as comprehensive but basically discussing wheather we could sell of our stars for big profits, yet continue to find hidden gems at ridiculess prices.
An assembly line like system, or the perfect retailers dream, buy for nowt , sell for as much as the market will bear.
Seems we have already run into the buffers, worked well in France, but the Dutch appear much more cany, raising their demands everytime we increase our offers.
Ah well nowt lasts forever !
chuck(Quote)
Well done Chuck… your the man… nice to hear you write articles in between being an obnoxious know it all..
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
He is worse than oliver, Tiote to spurs is one of the laziest stories ive seen in ages.
His exclusive of nufc not signing a centre half written a day before the douglas bid, The chronicle “understanding” that the club werent signing a striker in january a few days before Cisse was paraded at SJP with a ball under his arm… 🙄
CC(Quote)
Richie@47 😆
Aussie@48 😆
you two ,really need to form a double act 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
All the UK journalists are terrible.
“Read tomorrow’s (name your paper) for the same regurgitated invented bollocks with am added twist.”
Then they all copy each other on the off chance something happens that actually does come true…
JJ(Quote)
CC ,I will be glad when the window shuts ,so the written press can get back to writing us off at every given opportunity instead of rehashing old lies every bloody day. 👿 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
Kim, one upside from these lazy, shambolic press releases is that fans have become less gullible and in turn more cynical toward the **** being delivered up as stories..
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Aussie@61…I don’t believe you,ve read “How to make friends and influence people” yet have you? 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Other clubs will assign scouts to follow our scouts!
Fans Should Own The Club(Quote)
Aussie ,those that know me have always called me a cynical old bat any way 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
Rich, sounds like it could be a little wordy, does it have pictures in it? ? 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Come on Kim, your not old 🙂 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Aussie…How the **** would I know, I havn’t read it ya drongo….jeez some people 🙄 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Rich 🙂 🙂 silly me…
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Aussie ,I wish 😆 Feel very old at the mo ,not much sleep for 6 days ,lew not so good at mo. 🙁 Bad chest ,hacking away ,may take him back to GP tommorow change his anti b’s I think. Lot’s of colds and coughs at day centre and he picked one up 🙄 Thing is he can’t blow his nose so everything goes to his chest and what lays us low for 3 or 4 days puts him out of action for 2 bloody weeks or more 🙄 Need a good signing to cheer us all up . 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
Richie/AMF – sorry had to go collect the boy from nursery.
Aussie – youre right that I can’t back my argument up with cold hard facts. My argument is based completely on the fact that we still haven’t signed anyone. Spurs haven’t pissed about with Sigurdsson or Vertonghen, Arsenal haven’t with Podolski and Giroud. Teams we want to compete with aren’t fannying about with tester offers and things like that.
Do that with squad players we want, but first choice players who have been scouted and chosen to strengthen positions we are clearly weak in, then we should be getting those deals done, not taking stupid risks to save a couple of million quid. That’s just my opinion.
Jon – alreet then 😉
Sharpy17(Quote)