We have all debated the lack of strength in depth in defence and up front. We all have our own thoughts on why we are weak in certain positions and why we have not spent as much as some would have liked. We seem to fall into two trains of thought. This is not a rigid definition, but loosely described the two camps…
1) The owner is gambling with our future by penny pinching and trying to keep costs as low as possible in order to make his money back as soon as possible and sell the club for as much profit as possible. He refuses to take a chance on investing in the squad, even though it could take us to the next level.
2) The club is falling nicely within the Financial Fair Play guidelines and stands to benefit in the long run. The owners will not be held to ransom for players in cases where clubs ask above and beyond what our club feels is fair value for a player. We have adopted a methodical, patient approach to out transfer dealings that has seen the club grow in stature and be better equipped to compete in the future without the risk of administration or even liquidation biting us in the ***.
I recently published an article pointing out that although we could have more quality in depth and could have spent more during the summer window, we actually have enough existing depth to be able to compete at a similar level to last season. We have kept all of our big hitters and even signed a few. Meanwhile players like Steven Taylor and Sylvain Marveaux will feel like new signings – plus we have a number of youth players that finally appear ready for some regular action. We can cope.
That said, just 2 or 3 more quality signings could have ensured that we were strong on all fronts this season. Squad morale would have been better than it is now (possibly), genuine competition for places in the team will have been created (of which there is little of) and the crowd will have been a tad more bullish and full of voice during games – giving us that 12th man factor.
There is never any guarantee that a few semi-expensive signings will be a success, but maybe it would appease the fans and show a more substantive signal of intent. Perhaps our current approach to success for the club is a good one, but is not sexy enough for some fans?
We all know that throwing money around does not guarantee success, but there is the argument that if we can obtain quality players on the cheap via fantastic scouting, then why cant we apply the same approach at the same time as actually spending a few bob on one or two faces that will undoubtedly propel us to the next level? There are many very good arguments to be had from both sides of the coin, but nobody can dispute that we currently have the best squad we have seen in probably a good decade or so – having spent relatively little.
The Freddy Shepherd days may have been all glamour and big name signings – sexy on the outside, but riddled with debt and risky management on the inside – whereas the Mike Ashley Ashley days are all about being well oiled on the inside, albeit not a lot to get the heart pumping on the face of it. Feel free to go into depth on the subject on the comments section, but just out of interest I’d like you to cast your vote on one simple question – take your time to really think about this before registering your reply.
[poll id=”71″]
3hrs why is it you lay all the blame on FFS do you think he run the club all by himsel and took all the decisions by himsel, had SJH etc nowt to do with it ❓
Big Dave(Quote)
You are right Big Dave it was his mistake – the good news is he had the means to cover his mistake with his own money and he has done it interest free (the last overdraft we had under Shepherd and the increase in debt would be costing £11 million a year just in interest).
I’ve no doubt Ashley is doing this to protect his own interests but nevertheless the club is benefiting from it at the moment – I think it’s better the money is owed to him rather than some banks that would be stiffing us for millions in interest. All Ashley is stiffing us for is some free advertising 😆
3hourswasted(Quote)
@Pardiola
Well looks like Newkie @57 has done it for me. Cheers mate 😉
I expect this years finances to show improvement also, obviously not the huge profit as that was an anomaly but an improvement nonetheless.
So he has reduced wages by 6 Million a year but we have a better team than the one he inherited? Pretty good going if you ask me.
And due to Ashley taking the the debt on himself we are saving 6 Million a year in interest.
Commercial has taken a massive hit, but I can imagine as glory supporters return that’ll improve.
Notice that media has doubled, obviously I can’t say for sure, but that could feasibly include SD sponsorship ❓
Basically Freddie’s last year saw a loss of £34M, Ashley has slowly decreased the amount we were shitting away, even our relegation season didn’t come near that figure.
In addition to this it’s hard to analyse just how much Freddie’s NUFC was losing each year due to him taking out loans on our clubs behalf, whereas Ashley is now bearing the brunt of both those player expenses, and ones we buy now.
I eagerly await your response Pardiola. I can imagine you will woop and claim that overall debts increased each year rather than seeing the actual picture of the club turning the tide of it’s rotten apple phase.
If so, I’m done debating.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Newkie @ 68 – well we do need a winger but who do you drop Ba or Cisse? I think we can cope with Marv/Jonas and I wasn’t too arsed about debuchy because we needed a left back (then switch santon to right, but debuchy seemed to be who we wanted so I got behind it), a centre half as back up, preferably a one for a replacement for taylor (too injury prone, clanger prone) but if not still a back up centre half and a back up striker. Those to me were the three crucial signings, anywhere other than that we could cope I believe. Those three I believe could have cemented us in the top 6 this year.
Last year I wanted a 433 of cabaye tiote and guthers/jonas, ba cisse benny. We got rid of guthrie because we couldn’t give him first team opportunities yet we bring in 6 million pounds worth of anita and he’s going to get his game? It’s not adding up, even Luke Edwards in his last telegraph piece said Pardew wanted 3-4 senior players, but we ended up with one senior player. Something is not right. He said on the radio phone in he did that he wanted at least a goal scoring centre back, and we were negotiating/wanting a current players good friend (debuchy).
Is the squad stronger, I’m not sure yet I’ll know once we’ve been through January. I like the look of young Bigi, he was a colossus against Villa showed no fear was great to see him trying to play the ball quickly and smartly. A goal saving tackle against darren bent obviously didn’t do him any harm!
Pardiola(Quote)
Have to agree Newkie @75. We just haven’t yet found a way to really increase our penetration of other markets. It will take years to do but also we would have to be consistent winners playing eye pleasing football every season. We would also have to win several pieces of silverware. Will we do that under Ashley? I’m not sure but don’t see any reasonable alternative to Ashley on the horizon or right now. To me his best move would be to sack the odious Llambias but I consider that highly unlikely as well. Still thank god we aren’t Villa or Sunderland or quite a few other teams for that matter.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Well its no worse run than under the one eyed pirate westwood , mckeag or Sheppard they milked the cow untill it could not produce anymore . Sir John Hall pumped money in and built SJP up too what it is now , he gave the fans some wonderful seasons and bought players that lit the place up Shearer , Ginola ,Tino ,Sir Les where does the list end ? the thing is their was no long term plan , only money thrown about in the hope it would bring a trophy . Say what you want about Ashley but he has invested for the long haul ,so for me yes we are being run well , yes he wants a return on his investment but he is also putting something in place that could serve us well in years to come and thats investment in the youth .
Axel(Quote)
Pardiola. You seem to think we’re a massive club that should be challenging for the title. We’re not in that league. Our owner is not nearly as wealthy. I reckon if we had spent £25M wisely in the summer, we would still not be favourites to break into a CL place, where the big rewards lie.
I get weary of fans saying we just need one quality player here, another quality player there and one more up front, and we want them yesterday. All fans at all clubs want the same, but some are more realistic than others. In the transfer window some fans are like kids in a toy shop at Christmas. Trouble is they spit the dummy out when their expectations are raised and they don’t get half of what they want. They sulk and bad mouth their parents for ages afterwards.
I was pleased with 5th last season, and I’ll be pleased if we’re challenging for fifth again this season. I think we’ll have done very well if we get 5th because I can’t see it happening.
Whether things change in terms of winning the league when the FFP rules come in, I don’t know, but I doubt it. I think the real test will be whether we’re in a champions league spot or win a cup within the next three years.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
SJH handed the club over to Shepherd SJH was still a major shareholder through Shepherd’s reign but the day to day running of the club was down to him and Douglas Hall from about 1996 onwards. That’s why I am laying the blame at Shepherd’s door – the financial mis-management of the club was primarily down to him
3hourswasted(Quote)
The Swiss Rambler basically states that those that believe Ashley isn’t running the club well are bonkers.
Like many others that think it is run well, I would like him to show a bit more assertion in taking us forward. However to claim he isn’t taking us forward in a football and financial sense is ridiculous.
65 points!! Even Sir Bobby only bettered that twice.
Even the season following promotion our points tally was our second highest since 03/04
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
@Big Dave
I’ve asked you just two questions:
1) “we were playing Jonas centre mid. does that not suggest anita’s signing was with this in mind?”
2) “Would you be happy playing Jonas centre mid all season?”
And all you keep saying is that you don’t remember me in the past saying we needed a centre mid 🙄
I don’t know whether I did or didn’t! Why does it even matter?
I now think that we can’t function in a 4-4-2 so I believe Anita was a vital signing.
Jesus.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Overall I would have to give grudging approval to Ashley. However I don’t think the supporters will be as happy at the end of this season because I think there is a strong likelihood that we will finish somewhere between 6th and 8th, which means probably back out of Europa and with fewer points. If we suffer a large rash of injuries especially in those 6 Europa games to come things could rapidly get worse but I hope this will not be the case because I believe some of the youngsters are ready to step up this season. Time will tell but look at the CB situation every couple of months and think about how much better we could have been!
GeordieTwo(Quote)
I’ve no doubt the club is being run better on and off the field under Ashley than it was under Shepherd. Yes the bloke made some catastrophic ****-ups at the start but he is running the club well financially and we have made some great signings in the last 2 seasons. I would have liked a CB and a striker in during the summer but I think the club deserves to be cut some slack given how well things have gone in the last 3 seasons.
3hourswasted(Quote)
Solano-As much as I’d like to take the credit for anything, 57 was Shamrock! 😆 You are welcome of course… 😎
Pardiola-Yeah, its a tough one. Personally I think a 4-3-3 with Ben Arfa playing behind both Cisse and Ba would be, on paper, our best 11. If we switched to 4-3-3 with wingers either side of Ba/Cisse then you’d have to think Cisse would be the better option-his finishing is that bit superior and he’s less likely to come back to the midfield. However on current form Ba would be my choice. Strangely enough I actually feel more comfortable about Ba scoring the “easy” goals as well…meh 😕
Geordietwo-Exactly 😕 Still, Ashley is a good businessman whatever you say about the quality of his person/wares. Hopefully he can think something up. He would be helped if he got in a real director of football though rather than that **** llambias..We will be getting more TV money in future, but again that’s something which will benefit all clubs and presumably those we’re competing with even more 😕
Newkie(Quote)
@Newkie, I meant you at 59!
Fully agree with Sham’s point as well though.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Pardiola – Williamson has started 49 Premier League games over the past 2 seasons amassing 2230 minutes per season on average. That’s more than Perch and Saylor combined. During that time he has played a big part in where we are now. I agree that we could do with more cover in that area, as it’s the one place you cant trust youth – but I disagree that he is a liabilty. If he was, we would not be where we are now.
How much have you seen of Douglas to know that he would do a better job in the Prem than Willo would for example?
Dave I completely see your point too and understand your thinking. It’s not simple. As for Sports Direct, we got nothing out of it for however long it was actually up last season – before that our stadium was still SJP. Personally, I’d rather take the bloody naming rights and shove them up Llambias’ ****. I’d take the tradition of St. James’ Park over any naming rights any day.
As for not spending on strikers etc, that has given our kids an opportunity. No reason we cannot compete around 6th place with a few youth players in and around the squad. Arsenal manage to spend relatively little (most) seasons, rely on youth and still manage to break the Top 4 year on year.
Out of interest:
Arsenal are missing Wilshere, Fabianski, Rosicky, Diaby & possibly Walcott.
Villa missing Albrighton, Dunne, Petrov & Gardner.
In fact look through the injuries club by club – They are almost all missing 1 if not 2 first team players for a few games at least, just like us.
Injuries happen…
Shamrock(Quote)
Troyer @ 24 I could have sworn you apologised to Toonsy when he countered your accusation and put you right. Unfortunately, in the next line, you tried to save face by accusing him of something else, a perverse hatred of scousers or something. (Can’t be bothered to check.)
I can’t explain why I hate scousers, the same as I can’t explain why I hate mayo on a Greggs sandwich; I just do. Yeah, some are okay, but too many are chippy rogues – and with the worst accent in England.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
I still find it astonishing that a shrewd business man like MA failed to carry out dd. 😯 Makes you wonder if his hand was forced to act quickly somehow. 😕
KIMTOON(Quote)
Shamrock I think the prospect of Willo with Saylor instead of Collo for the next few weeks is quite worrisome. Collo tended to cover most of Williamson’s mistakes (at least when the ball was on the ground) but not so sure Saylor will do the same. Few have the vision of Collocini for the defensive game. We will badly miss him and it will no doubt cost us a few points. No depth at CB could kill us this season more than anything else in my mind.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Solanostrumpet. You still have no proof of what I asked so you’re doing what you said you wouldn’t do, and still ignoring most of my points now someone has posted the information for you. I have admitted we are going in the right direction, but my point what you’re trying so hard to prove wrong that debt has increased under ashley. Am I wrong?
I shouldn’t have even bothered replying to you if you think that commercial sponsorship falls under the ‘media’ category. 😳 🙄 and clearly ignored the piece put up about or finances, but I’ll entertain you with a little bit.
We were 77 million in debt. We’ll use your wrong numbers though because you know it all. ‘6 mil’ x 5 years he’s been here = 30 add that to 77 maybe we should have left the debt as it was?!
I said we are going in the right direction but if it’s such a good run club why aren’t we kicking on from last season, a signing here and there and we’ll be cemented in the top 6? We could make even more profit
❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓
Were we waiting for the “We’ll be losing one or two names this summer” (llambias quote) and it didn’t happen so we didn’t spend more? Now was the kick to really kick on, but it’s passed us by.
Is it success in the books what matters to you? Well I go to games and it’s on the pitch what matters. I have said I can see we’re heading in the right direction, of that there is no debate, even on to a profit. It’s just last year was a fluke, and this window we’ve effectively stood still while all our rivals improved. Not a good recipe for success!
If we were in such good shape why couldn’t we buy the players Pardew wanted?
Pardiola(Quote)
Solano-that’s alright then 😛
Newkie(Quote)
If the young uns get plenty of game time this season, and do well, we’ll have a great squad next season without spending any money. One step back, two steps forward.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Newkie, 3HW – So far you are the only people from what I can see that have actually added factual figures to support your argument. That tends to make me lean even more to the ‘yes’ side. Everything else is just opinion so far, nothing substantive to back it all up…
Shamrock(Quote)
The fact that Ashley acted quickly and didn’t have time to do the DD was a necessity for him to get the club. Getting the club may well turn out to be a masterstroke on his part so what’s the problem?
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Great discussion lads. Finally some footie tomorrow! Best score for Liverpool v Sunderland on the weekend? I’m thinking 0-0.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
G2 @ 93 – You could well be right. On the flipside, Colo is not a natural leader. Saylor is. They both have their advantages, albeit I agree Colo is a better footballer. Colo is no Mr Perfect though, he’s made plenty of schoolboy errors himself over the past 2 seasons.
BTW – We have had no confirmation that Colo will be out long term?!
Also, Douglas is known as a hot headed tough tackling no nonsense ban attracting defender – would he have been a good fit next to Saylor whilst Colo was out? I’m not so sure…
Shamrock(Quote)
ST @ 85 I can talk and debate with most on here but see when you start throwing your toys outta the pram and accuse me of trying to catch you out and get personal, well tbh I just couldn’t be fuking bothered with that childish **** on here. As I have said to you several times I tend to treat other regulars on here with a bit of respect, I don’t speak down to them and don’t get personal, so I epext to be treated the same way.
As for Jonas playing CMF I guess that might be to do with the fact Tiote is out of the side. I would much rather play our back 4 – 3 consisting of Jonas/Marv – Tiote – Cabaye and 3 Ba – Cisse – Benny, which would allow basically Tiote to sit infront of the back 4 with Cabaye and Jonas or Marv infront of Tiote, I don’t think we needed Anita and I never heard any Fans saying before that another MF was a priority, but it seems now that Tiote is out some are saying that he is Vital well I don’t think he was and considering all we have seen of him I don’t know how anyone can say he is vital.
Big Dave(Quote)
B&B@98 ,It’s not a problem but don’t you find it odd that he didn’t make time for DD ,why did he have to act quickly ? was there other parties in for the club .I only ask as when he tried to sell it he couldn’t get a buyer as I recall.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Shamroc-Aye. I actually hadn’t voted until 5 mins ago as I was on the middling to yes scale, but I think when I hear what other people have to say from both sides again it tends to sway me to “yes”.
Newkie(Quote)
Kim – Sorry, I wasn’t getting at you.
Mikey had to act quickly because Freddie was ill in hospital, and Mikey saw the chance to take advantage of it by agreeing a deal with the Halls.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
@Pardiola
My error on the media.
Honestly though. Read the article. Don’t be stubborn. Read the article.
If you read and and still feel the club isn’t going in the right direction then nothing I can say will change that as the Swiss Rambler post is backed to the hilt with substance, so I might as well not bother trying to convince you..
Couple of questions though.
1) Would you have sold a big player to fund transfers? As that is what our rivals Arsenal/Tottenham/Everton did ❓
2) Would a couple of signings cemented top 6?! I feel like adding another striker would’ve been just as much of a gamble as not adding one if we didn’t make top 6. Europa doesn’t even bring in much money (http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/uefas-ffp-regulations-play-to-win.html)
I don’t understand what questions you are wanting to answer to be honest.It feels like you are attempting to construe and twist everything I say rather than debating.
Why is my response not valid because it used what someone else posted? It’s an incredibly informative blog post. What a ridiculous point..
The debt rate of increasing slowed – down to Ashley.
Your initial point blamed Ashley for the increase in debt and that was all I was trying to dispute.
Bullet point what you actually want me to answer.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
At least we won’t be troubled by long balls with Staylor/Willo, and luckily Jelavic isn’t that rapid as to cause us problems…as for Osman and Pienaar though…hopefully the full backs keep em quiet…
Newkie(Quote)
@97- I agree.
With the finances sorted PLUS the club in Europe it really isn’t possible to say the isn’t well run anymore. The club was absolutely hemorrhaging money on many levels with no plan or end in sight, with scary consequences looming.
Many will never forgive Ashley for Keegan or the stadium naming issuing which is completely understandable. Now I won’t go so far as to say he saved the club, but he certainly made the inevitable restructuring of the club a lot less painful than it could have been.
MDS(Quote)
@Big Dave
😯
How can you take issue with me saying I think Anita was a vital signing ❗
I think even with Tiote fit he is going to be crucial to our team. He would slot perfectly into a 4-2-3-1.
As for “you haven’t seen him play so how can you say he is vital”, okay as opposed to everyone clamouring over people like Douglas?
Get a life man.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Shamrock I don’t disagree in how many games or how long he’s played. If everyone was fit how many games would he have got?
Bet that doesn’t include the silly flying kick tackle he injured himself with against scunthorpe in the cup after they gave him the run around. Which badly affected us because coming back he was more unfit than he usually is when Taylor and Colo were out and we got battered.
He’s played out of necessity to me, his only competition was Tamas Kadar for god sake! Frigging hell, Perch has started to look more accomplished, and I’ll admit after his fifth booking I thought there was no future for Perch. Perch has turned it around where as williamson hasn’t improved since the championship. I don’t know one person round me at SJP who rates him, seriously. I’ve never thought wow williamson’s had a good game, never mind an excellent game. I just think with someone better we could do better and could have done better last year. And it’s not hard to get someone better, even though this regime make out it is. Adrian Mariappa would have been an improvement! If he was so good, why didn’t he start the season? An unfit steven taylor who loves a gaffe is ahead of him in the pecking order, and he’s another player I don’t think is up to much. But I’d rather taylor over williamson.
RE douglas not live, but about 10 times full matches on the internet and television when not been at work, maybe a few more times but not the full matches. But I’ve seen enough glimpses to show he would give more effort and run faster than williamson. How did the scouts know Anita would cut it? Same as Douglas I expect?
Pardiola(Quote)
Solanostrumpet how many times do I have to put that we’re on the right track financially, it’s just a bit more could be done on the football side. I’m not answering your daft questions any more I’ve been doing it and you’ve been ignoring what I’m asking you because you’ve been wrong, and keep scuttling in new questions and viewpoints.
For the last time we’re on the right path towards turning a profit but the footballing side still leaves a little to be desired.
Have you got that yet or will I type it again?
Pardiola(Quote)
Dave@101
Thing is though, Jonas played in the centre last year alongside Tiote, both as DMs allowing Cabaye to push up. What’s telling is that even when Guthrie was fit, Jonas was chosen ahead. To me that’s because Jonas was a better DM than Guthrie simply because of his style i.e higher work rate, better hassling ability. By bringing in Guthrie we have a committed DM unlike Perch and Jonas who can not only cover for Tiote but also, IMO improve our first team, as I’ve said I think that allows all our best players in their best positions.
It suggests that Pards noted that position as requiring a first team player. Perhaps nobody on hear mentioned it because none of us are football managers and Pards is..
Newkie(Quote)
Pardiola, I’m not saying Willo played ahead of Saylor. I’m saying he played in a successful team, in an integral position. That team finished 5th. He cant be that bad… Mariappa better than him? Ok then… Same way they decided on Anita? Yes, but they actually signed Anita. Maybe they decided Douglas was not worth it? Willo did not start this season because Saylor is better. He ight be prone to the odd gaffe, but so is Colo. Saylor is a warhorse and the perfect foil for Colo – look at how well they played together last season before his injury.
My point is Willo is perfectly able back up – capable of stepping in for long periods if required. It’s not a question of opinion – he’s done it. Twice!
Anyway. Again I state that I agree we should have signed a central defender, but disagree that Willo is incompetent. History would suggest otherwise.
Shamrock(Quote)
B&b > Ah yes I had forgotten that about Freddie being ill. Must confess never paid much attention at the time ,I’m more concerned with what goes on on the pitch than all the money stuff . 😉 Still I suppose he well and truly lived up to that old saying act in haste repent at leisure 🙄 .
Shamrock@100 ,Well I for one am glad we didn’t get Douglas ,never felt we needed a hot head in the ranks tbh . Yes he can do one and take his half dozen agents with him.
KIMTOON(Quote)
ST @ 108 does telling me to get a life because I don’t agree with you make you feel like some sort of a big man ? I could give you all sorts of personal abuse on here as any muppet can mouth of on a blog, but as I said I try to treat people with a bit of respect, so you just crack away there because your making yourself look like a real fool that can’t debate without trying to get personal, and its really starting to fuking **** me off 😉
Kim @ 102 Jabba had to rush into the deal because there was a Malaysian ? consortium that was interested in buying the club but they needed time to do DD
Big Dave(Quote)
Solanostrumpet, last one
I’ve read all the swiss rambles blogs, especially on us you condescending **** I wasn’t being stubborn just laughing as if you taken your own advice and read them properly you would realise that it mentioned sponsorship is under commercial AND our interest would have risen to 11m a year!
And my questions had question marks, why should I bullet point them you fucking idiot?
Here’s my question, has our debt increased under ashley since he bought the club? Yes or no, no long winded bullet points or number questions.
My original premise was I said we’re heading in the right direction, just not as well run as you newsnow monkeys believe that mike’s wiped the debt and we’re the best run club since sliced bread as he nearly doubled our debt. You get it yet? Will I draw a picture? (Those last two were rhetorical so they won’t appear on the bullet point list you want)
Pardiola(Quote)
@Pardiola
You clearly haven’t read the blog then.
“The previous ownership had mortgaged Newcastle to the hilt, securing loans on virtually all the club’s assets (training ground) and future income streams (TV, sponsorship), and also left Ashley with deferred transfer payments of £36 million, some of which was owed on players who had left the club.”
Oh dear.
And again, the highest points tally since Sir Bobby. Only bettered by two of his in fact. A 20 point increase in points isn’t progress? We have about 7 potential world class players on our books,nearly that could still improve. No progress? Can’t fathom what your problem is. Blaming the debt increase on Ashley is daft, but accusing us have not shown any footballing progress under his ownership is just lunacy.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Been interesting ladies and gents. Tide is turning towards childish rants now. Alcohol setting in?! If you cant debate sensibly then just call it a day people! Makes us look like knuckle dragging morons. You are better than that and have all made good, vaild points.
This topic is not black and white – like Dave pointed out – and nobody is an authority on the subject either. Both sides considered though, it seems 65% of fans voting so far feel that *overall, both sides taken into account* Ashley and Co. are doing a good job with our club – which he does NOT own – he just has it on loan from it’s loyal fans 😎
Shamrock(Quote)
@Big Dave
To be honest, your posts just came on as a bit of an accusation. As though because in the past I hadn’t thought centre mid was a vital signing that I couldn’t say it was now. I don’t see why saying someone is being arsey is any different then calling them childish but there you go.
I also don’t understand why I can’t say a player is vital because I haven’t seen him play? People say Douglas was a vital signing don’t they? He is vital in the sense that I think central midfield strengthening will be shown to have been vital to our season when we get Tiote back in the 4-2-3-1
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Pardiola – You say that the debts were £75M when Mikey took over but now they’re £140M, which I don’t argue with. However, this club has been run at a loss for years and the debts after a further five years under FFS would have continued to mount, especially as the club was paying substantial amounts of interest on them as well as dividends to the shareholders and fees to the directors.
The biggest hit was relegation, but relegation was a good possibility anyway. At least it helped us get rid of the likes of Owen, Viduka, Duff, Martins etc so relegation was a mixed blessing. If FFS had taken us down, we might still be there now.
All I’m saying is that the club’s debt may be larger than it was, but probably not larger than it would have been had FFS remained.
Moreover, if someone said to you that you no longer had to pay £1,000 a month on your mortgage indefinitely, you’d think it was Christmas. While this continues, it is as if the debt isn’t there. Yes, Mikey could exchange the debt for equity, but this way gives him financial flexibility, and possibly even tax advantages. He’s probably only following good legal and accountancy advice.
Incidentally, did Shepherd Offshore and Cameron Hall pay the club for its advertising?
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Shamrocker – aye but you’re giving me the average minutes more than Taylor and Perch but that was because taylor was out from december, and he’s our only other centre half so he had to play there, it’s not like he was picked over two other back up centre halves, or even one! He can ‘come in and do job’ for two games or so after that he’s a liability, sitting waiting for him to get fitter and sharper but I’m still waiting. Colocinni was in his first season without a doubt a joke but he had plenty of reasons why. And he’s improved massively. Sometimes he gets skinned for pace (west brom) but sometimes it’s attack vs colo and he can’t do it all.
Williamson is a big oaf who isn’t even good in the air. Therefore his purpose is? He is WOEFUL on set pieces when they knock that big diagonal to him. He should be so dominant but he has a heart the size of a pea.
What games have you ever thought hey he’s the best defender on the pitch? None for me, and that’s in defences that include people like danny simpson, and perchinho filling in at centre half. Perch was wiping willo’s nose for him against swansea and liverpool last year whilst outshining him in willo’s natural position. Tells you all you need to know in my opinion.
Aye they maybe decided against Douglas is conjecture the same way you dismiss my conjecture that Mariappa would have been better for us? But I think deep down we both know that it was probably just due to money, the same reason Mariappa wasn’t brought in.
Pardiola(Quote)
PARDIOLA @ 110 you’ll tend to find that ST likes to give a politicians answer in that he doesn’t actually answer but just asks you another question, as for him asking you to provide proof that the club isn’t getting paid by SD, and that if he was going to say something simular he would have the proof to support what he’s saying ❓ 😆 😆 😆 That really has made himsel look really foolish there because he misquoted me a while back on here by saying that I stated we would be relegation battlers last season, and I asked him for proof to back up his claim that I said it and it went on for days until he took one almighty childish hissy fit and never came back for a couple of days, but said he might have got it wrong but he didn’t have the bottle to admit he made the quotes up or apologise for it. Thats the type of guy he is 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
@B&B
Exactly.
@Big Dave
Btw, if my “arsey” and “get a life” comments offended you just check out Pardiolas to me 😯 😉
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Haha whatever Dave, I’m going to start noting the mistakes you make..!
I don’t think I could look more foolish than the people claiming our club isn’t well run on both the footballing and financial side ❗ Disheartened with the summer fair enough. Anything more makes me fear for the return of the “deluded mag” tag.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
ST fyi and just to finish it off I simply asked you why if you state he was a vital signing that you never noticed a big gaping hole in our MF before now but you did notice that the defence needed strengthened, but instead of talking about it you tried to make it out as if I was trying to catch you out 😯 or being arsey.
Big Dave(Quote)
Pardiola I’m giving you the average minutes per season to highlight that Willo has, overall, contributed significantly more to our achievements than Saylor – who is better than him. I’m not sure what you are getting at? After two games he’s a liability?! No he’s not. He has proved that for half of the 2010-2011 season and again during half of the 2011-2012 season. Stop trying to force your opinion on me. I dont believe he is as shocking as you make out, deal with it.
I dismiss your ascertation regarding Mariappa because you stated it like it was a fact, based on NOTHING! Williamson has proven himself in the Prem, Mariappa has not.
I’ve never said he’s a world beater, I simply suggest that he is an able squad player who can step up if needed. Again, it’s not even a debate – the bloke has already proven himself. Almost 50 starts over seasons underlines that.
Shamrock(Quote)
@Dave
Just because I thought we could play 4-4-2. We can’t, so I think we need a greater midfield.
I reckon he has strengthened our first team, whereas if we had signed a CB I would have expected them to be back up to Saylor. Same goes for striker.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Pardiola – I’m not a Willo fan by any means, but to be fair, his one (perhaps only) strength is his aerial ability. Colo lost every bloody header against Bent the other day, and I think Colo is fantastic.
I’m not out to get you here, honest; its just that you’ve made a few bold and forthright statements that I don’t necessarily agree with.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
@Shamrock
It’s the age old head scratcher. So many of our players Simpson/Willo/Saylor/Santon/Raylor/Jonas/Guthrie/Cabaye/Shola were questioned last year that sometimes fans lost sight of the fact they can’t ALL be liabilities or playing awful, judging by our league position.
Coloccini is fantastic. But we didn’t keep all the clean sheets solely down to him ❗
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Solanostrumpet,
Why have you quoted that paragraph then wrote ‘oh dear’ ? I never said we had no debt, like Big Dave put you in your place hours ago it wasn’t as bad as made out by dekka (aka doing a leeds) so I don’t see the relevance of your quote? Yet again another classic bit of misdirection ignore what I wrote and my questions!
I never said we haven’t progressed at all on the footballing side, I’ve just said it could have been better, such as this summer we missed a trick, last summer we should have got a centre half etc. You can keep posting your point tallies and all that because it’s going to be difficult to get anywhere near that again. I guess that’s why you’re ignoring the fact I’m saying we could be better. Not we’ve went backwards, not we’ve done nothing. It could be better. Disagree all you like but at the end of the day I said the debt has nearly doubled so we’re not as well run as you think or we’d be cementing our top 6 status if we’re so well run. Finished with your patter will catch up tomorrow.
Blackely and Brownlie. No, I don’t think we should win the title and no I didn’t want 25m spent. I don’t think we’ll get near top 6 again but I’ll gladly be proved wrong on that! My original point was it’s not being as well run on the football side as we’re led to believe and debts went up under ashley. That’s it. You can write all your analysis but I’m not wrong in what I said those two points. It’s my opinion and if you can prove it’s wrong I’ll gladly hear it and accept it, but all the posters have confirmed the debt has gone up, and most fans think we could have done a bit better in the window, so I’m not far off. You can do what solanostrumpet has done and miss the point entirely accusing me of things like not being a fan but the bottom line is I think the money side is on the right track (not as perfect as some make out or we’d have bought more) and we could have made some better decisions on the footballing side, which could have maybe led to more money for the bean counters who are so obsessed with football finance these days.
Anything else I’ll look at tomorrow good night lads. BTW, I voted yes in the poll 😎
Pardiola(Quote)
Solano – Apparently we do though?! 😆
Shamrock(Quote)
ST @ 126 well if you said that instead of trying to make it out that I was trying to be arsey and catch you out we could have then had a discussion about we shouldn’t be signing a back up CB but one that would fight it out for a 1st team place etc etc.
Big Dave(Quote)
Pardiola @ 129 funny enough I stated in my very 1st post that it wasn’t as black and white as yes and no I said there was things I liked about how the club was run but things I didn’t like but sure we’ll just forget about that 😯
Big Dave(Quote)
Quite frankly, I don’t know how to judge if the club is well run. I know sfa about accounts and I’ve not been to a board meeting. The administration staff seem to get match day right, and it would appear that players and staff get paid on time.
What I do know is that some things happen that I agree with and some things happen that I don’t agree with.
brisvegas(Quote)
Okay, a sort of relevant discussion:
What impact will the Prem 3bn deal have?
1) On the league
Not sure whether it will make the league more competitive or not. With our scouts it could be very, very good as we’d surely be able to fund some heavy investment and really add some quality to the squad depth.
It’s why West Ham/QPR/Southampton/Blackburn splashing to get into or stay in the prem makes sense
2) On our national team
Why buy overpriced English players when with our new gluttonous tv deal we have the funds to snatch players at even greater ease from France etc. Is going to be disastrous imo.
I’m off now but would be interested to see peoples thoughts on Q1 especially. Maybe that’s what we’re holding out for? If we’re sustainable by next year then the extra tv money could be pure transfer and wages pocket money.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
It’s not as simple as yes and no, but if you weigh up the pro’s and con’s of the current set up then you should be able to lean one way or the other.There is no right or wrong on this, it’s all subjective – just a very loose means of trying to get a formal line drawn in the sand and see which side the majority end up on…. Gives a *sense* of persepctive to the ongoing debates, that’s all.
Anyway, been interesting. Good night all 😀
Shamrock(Quote)
Pardz – Nothing wrong with your opinion. I’m just giving my views on the issues you’ve raised.
First, I happened to be agreeing that the debt had gone up as you say, but drew a different conclusion about how it got there and what it meant for the club.
Second, I got the impression that you thought the club should have been more ambitious in the transfer market, whereas I am grateful for what we’ve already got and will measure progress in three or four years’ time.
Third, I’m not sure many fans believe the debt has been wiped off and I don’t know who the newsnow monkeys you’re referring to are? I’ve certainly never seen anyone on here say that.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
I agree with one point, that big Dave is an arsey fecka
heroic tino(Quote)
I’m off before the aussies crack open their fossies.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Too late. Bris is here. Have to disagree about the club being well run on a match day. Mikey could sell twice as much beer at half time if he got the place organised.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Right so, its not that they’re english and it’s probably not that they were only “championship” players before we signed them/still are.
Maybe its the fact they have “son” at the end of their name? Does “son” at the end of the name bring up memories of the Cockney Mafia? AWIGHT SAN? Does it reignite the passions of the Geordie Nation against the hated london southerners?
P’raps i’m onto something guv…
Newkie(Quote)
Shamrock – I haven’t really read any post since my last one – not disrespecting any just I’m pissed and can’t be arsed. Don’t understand how Rod can be on all night – al be asleep before anyone replies to me.
What you did initially was spot on. Asking people to vote yes or no!. We know were not asking alot to spend alittle more money – but the question is ‘overall, are we happy? – the big picture – yes or no?’ – if no fine, I’m not 100% happy, but more happy than not – yes 😉
Sharpy17(Quote)
Bollocks more like.
Rodzilla(Quote)
…use the farce, Sharpy. 😉
Rodzilla(Quote)
I couldn’t be arsed to vote either anyway.
…couldn’t be arsed reading whatever drivel any other **** had to say before I posted this too. 😎
….speaking of voting, is Arthur Scargill still lead singer of Bananarama?
Rodzilla(Quote)
…voting’s for dicks.
Join the Anarcho-Apathy Party.
…every pound per ticket goes to charity. Tickets available for £2.50 from ah whatever 😕
Rodzilla(Quote)
Morning rodz
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
If a PL club is breaking even this day and age then it is a very well run club. The likes of man u, man city, liverpool etc are all running at some tidy losses.. Liverpool had to shift a couple of big earners (carroll) to ease the wage bill.. so I voted yes 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Fucking glad I use this **** instead of Twatter or Faecesbook.
This is my verbal blog spitoon-toon.
(kanwey-taami) 😎
Rodzilla(Quote)
Whooa, are we moving to slo?
Rodzilla(Quote)
….ahh teka drive to, Beverley Hill’s Kebab Emporia 😎
Rodzilla(Quote)