Another defeat it may be, but I actually feel better about this one than I have about previous losses. The result will take the headlines but it was the performance that heartens me as we saw a much improved showing from United.
With not much action to really write about in the first-half,aside from Peter Crouch having some teeth knocked out, the game kind of came alive in the second when Papiss Cisse reacted first to a parried Demba Ba shot and fired past Asmir Begovic via the post to give the away side a 47thminute lead.
Further chances followed for Demba Ba and Cisse once more but Begovic was equal to their efforts and kept his side in the game. Indeed the away side may have been unlucky not to have been awarded a penalty after what looked to be a handball by Ryan Shawcross but Howard Webb was unconvinced and waved the claims away. Maybe because we weren’t playing in Manchester United red perhaps?
However Stoke are a tough nut to crack at the Britannia and they pushed for an equaliser only to find blind alleys and blocked paths. Indeed Tim Krul hadn’t really had much to do on the night having just one effort to comfortably contend with.
That changed nine minutes from time however when Stoke equalised. Jonas Gutierrez allowed Cameron Jerome to cross for Jonathan Walters to head the hosts level.
Parity didn’t last long however and the home side were soon 2-1 up after Cameron Jerome got on the end of a knock-down from Kenwyne Jones to give Stoke an 85th minute lead which United couldn’t recover from.
The game against Wigan on Monday now is huge. We need a win at any cost although I can’t help wondering just how hard the defeat last night will have hit the players. They actually did enough to get something from the game in my eyes, perhaps not the win some may say, but almost certainly enough for a point and to have that taken away from them at the death could hit confidence further.
Howay the lads!
Stoke: Asmir Begovic, Geoff Cameron, Robert Huth, Ryan Shawcross, Ryan Shotton, Glenn Whelan, Steven Nzonzi, Charlie Adam, Matthew Etherington, Jonathan Walters, Peter Crouch
Subs: Thomas Sorensen, Matthew Upson, Wilson Palacios, Dean Whitehead, Michael Kightly, Cameron Jerome, Kenwyne Jones
Newcastle: Tim Krul, Danny Simpson, Fabricio Coloccini, Mike Williamson, Davide Santon, James Perch, Vurnon Anita, Jonas Gutierrez, Cheik Tiote, Demba Ba, Papiss Cisse
Subs: Rob Elliot, Shane Ferguson, James Tavernier, Gael Bigirimana, Sylvain Marveaux, Sammy Ameobi, Gael Bigirimana
Attendance: 26,793
Toonsy – I agree, much better last night. Although Jonas couldn’t stop the cross going in, Mr Liability certainly left Walters alone for a free header. We will continue to be in trouble with Simpson and Williamson playing.
georgio(Quote)
Certainly an improved performance and for 80mins I’d say we were the better side. Now we’ll have to see which aspect of the game will affect our players-the loss/capitulation that will deplete morale and annoy them as it’s a game they should have and would usually see out, or the fact that they were the better side for 80mins and a change or two should be able to grab us that important win against wigan.
Newkie(Quote)
best performance of the season by a mile much better team should get a win on monday think the players will have a bit more fire in there bellys
chris(Quote)
1 pleasing news. 😆 😆
http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20121129/ranger-hungry-for-more_2281670_2995173
“It’s a start and the gaffer is showing me what can happen if I keep making progress with my behaviour off the field and getting into training on time,” Ranger said.
“He’s given me a few minutes and hopefully there are more to come. I’ve just got to take any chance I get.
“People say that I’ve got potential and that I’m wasting it, so I’ve sat myself down and thought ‘listen, I need to get myself together here and graft.’
AngelOfDeath(Quote)
Well we’ll see soon enough whether he’s sincere or just being a lying c*nt again.
Newkie(Quote)
anyone know what formation we played last night
Instructatoon(Quote)
Gutted again. Was in the pub celebrating at 80 mins, doh!
Re: Ranger, the fact he is saying this now instead of a year ago is daft, the boy is obviously an idiot if he is just getting that message now so I can’t see it lasting
Moreno(Quote)
Instructatoon-It seemed a straight up 4-4-2 with everyone in the normal positions and Anita on the right wing. But I did wonder during the match, Anita was often advanced, playing behind Cisse and Ba and often chased their keeper down. Not really sure if it was a switch to 4-3-1-2 or whether that just happened. Tiote also robbed the ball off the stoke defender well up the pitch and got into the box, so maybe they were just rotating the running duties.
Newkie(Quote)
Other great news was Cisse learning the offside rule…can’t remember it happening once? And we were able to get behind their defence, sort of, which led to chances for Cisse and Ba, but begovic is a good keeper..
Really hope those two have put their differences aside…
Newkie(Quote)
SORRY BUT WE’RE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE NATION AGAIN!
I don’t live in the NE anymore and this morning at work my friends were very quick to point at our “idiot” fans (their words not mine) who are demanding the sacking of Pardew etc etc. because we are going through a rough patch. Can someone tell me how much success we have had with all the different managers we have seen? Stability is what’s required but let’s not have the dislike for Pardew cloud that fact eh 🙄 . Someone on another blog said he would love to see Moyes at our club. Well I wouldn’t disagree but as Everton until this season never turned up till after Christmas, would he have lasted that long with our supporters? I doubt it.
ballerfan2(Quote)
Re. Laughing stock – a term I hate by the way – i was referring to our fans and not our team (just in case I wasn’t clear about that). The fans should know better. Following Newcastle United has always been a rollercoaster ride.
ballerfan2(Quote)
Newkie – If Cisse and Ba had just shown a bit more composure we’d have won easily. I guess it’s just not in their nature, Ba especially. It should have been a devastating result, but the performance left me in quite a good mood. If Benny was fit we’d have murdered them. Anita’s finally getting it.
georgio(Quote)
Shocking to lose all 3 points in the last 10 minutes or so. Willo just isn’t good enough to partner Colo. Saw him boot the ball aimlessly again many times. Hopeless lack of poise. Simpson was terrible as well. On the other hand Santon is coming on by leaps and bounds. We still aren’t using the midfield much to attack. We’re definitely a long ball club again now sad to say especially without Cabaye. Overall we were much better for the first 80 minutes but then fell apart. Wigan will be the biggest game of the season so far no doubt. A draw or loss would be a disaster but stranger things have happened with us. Hope toonsy et al are right though and we have now turned a corner of sorts (although is that an out of control bus headed in our direction)?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
G2 – we just ran out of steam in the end.
georgio(Quote)
Aye Georgio but the way we gave up those 2 goals by falling into disarray was alarming to say the least. We have 14 points from 14 games and a -7 goal difference. Shocking stats after a 5th place finish last season. We got a lucky goal as well. Their goalie spilled it and Cisse actually hit the post with it before it went in. Bizarre to see us revert to long ball. The commentators even referred to it (most long balls of any team in the division). With Willo back there it’s hoof it straight to the other team and watch them start another attack all night.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
“Sometimes it’s just about a bit of confidence – we gave him (Cisse) a different role, and some responsibility to score goals. I thought he might come up with a goal without the responsibility of playing him on the side, and he did – he was terrific all night.”
*** RLY PARDS?
Brendan(Quote)
Does that mean he didn’t have a responsibility to score goals in the previous 13 games? What on earth is Pardew on about? This has to be the strangest season in a long while. Now we’re ranking our losses. This apparently was a good loss because some of the players actually showed up to play. So will a 38 point season and a -15 goal difference be acceptable if the players continue to decide to try to earn some of their bloated wages? We lost that game because we didn’t strengthen the side in the summer plain and simple. Saylor has been injury prone since he began playing for us and Willo is considered a reasonable stand-in. I’m going to start actually counting his giveaways in every match now. He can’t turn and run and his average pass is a 50 yard boot straight to the opposition. What team are you watching Llambias you fool?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Georgio-Possibly mate, possibly. But they weren’t exactly the best “one on ones” both were under pressure from defenders and both were pushed out onto the right hand side of goal-basically the difficult side to score from for two right footed strikers. It’s a shame one of them couldn’t score because we’d have probably held then.
Newkie(Quote)
Four points from 7 away games including some very poor teams (Southampton, mackems, Reading). Now we’re happy with a last 10 minute collapse? I know I’m being a bit unfair but how much have our expectations dropped from last season? We have some passengers in the side now including Jonas, Willo, and Simpson. If we don’t strengthen in January we will be a bottom 6 side this season sad to say. I hope we enjoyed Europe because it will be the last we see of it for a long while.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
I think we need to continue sounding the alarm. Llambias needs to go now. Keeping him in there for the January window could be a disaster (if Ashley actually releases any money). To me Pardew looks like a deer in the headlights. Those late subs including Ranger stank of desperation whereas Pulis’s subs earlier on had real effect. If Martinez out-manages Pardew and his players execute on Monday we could see another home disaster. Please plan it out carefully Pardew and forget about the next Europa game. That is the last of our worries right now.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
I was somewhat heartened by our performance last night ,it was much better save for the last 10 mins when lack of composure and confidence set in. But for Pards to say we were the better side is wholly wrong imo. We were on top for around 20mins of the second half after we went ahead .You could see the heads go up and they played with less fear but the minute they equalised we went into panic mode. It was like do we attack and get another or try and contain it ,in the end we capitulated thanks to not closing down enough ,same old same old but slightly better 😉 Oh and it was a pen for me but Webb is a @*@* and was quick to jump on us all night whilst letting Adam foul with inpunity eventually carding him after his 5/6th foul. I feckin hate Stoke by the way. 👿
KIMTOON(Quote)
When will we rid ourselves of that sickening piece of bat dung Llambias? What is he actually good for? He wouldn’t know a good player from a telephone pole (in fact I often confuse Willo with one when he tries to run). Can we sell Llambias to some deserving team in the 3rd division for some head cheese and a butter knife (I realise that’s probably a big ask)? Sack Llambias or watch us go down the tubes Ashley.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Pulis’ subs only really had an effect because we let them. Any player can knock on/score if we just let them. Those subs were a last throw of the dice and I would have replaced Jonas earlier, but to be fair I don’t remember many people asking for substitutions before we conceded….
Newkie(Quote)
And I couldn’t give a monkey what Ranger has to say the t@*t ,unless he starts scoring shitloads of goals I don’t wanna hear a peep out of him .
KIMTOON(Quote)
Ballerfan, what are your thoughts on the following;
1- alan Pardew quotes;
December 2011 – ‘Mike Ashley has been asking me when am I goingbyo sign a defender.’
August 2012 – ‘I’m happy with the squad I’ve got.’
Numerous times since he was hired – I want to get this side set up attacking teams. My sides will always be looking to win.
August 2012 – It’s realistic that we can push for the Top 4 this season.
November 2012 – ‘It’s unfair to talk about transfers in January, I have 10 great players out there on the treatment table.’
2 – tactics;
We have some very good technical players such as Cabaye, Ben Arfa and even Anita. Ba and Cisse are predatory strikers that love the ball to feet so why the following?;
– a 4-4-2 formation with wingers that cannot cross?
– The constant long balls bypassing our creative midfielders and giving possession away?
– The awful set pieces resulting in no more than 1 goal in the last 18 months.
Do we have a manager that is tactically inept?
Do we have a board that is failing those fans who scrape together the money to bring their children to watch their team during economic hard times? Do they not owe the fans the decency to at least address the areas of ghe team that are desparately short in numbers and quality, i.e defence and the wings? This is now 2 windows we have failed to sign a defender.
Is Pardew raising expectations and then failing spectacularly?
Cant Pardew and his staff even get the basics right such as set pieces?
Why do we constantly rely on Cisse or Ba to score our goals? Cant our midfield help out?
Is it fsir to question the board and manager? Bloody right it is.
Shamrock(Quote)
Newkie, I can’t see why he chose to make subs in the 85th minute ,pointless really the damage was done by then. 🙄
KIMTOON(Quote)
Kim-Pards probably meant we were better as we did the classic away performance well. I agree with him. Stoke cut us down several times when we broke and Adam is a dirty c*nt. Re- the decision, it’s one of those where if we were on form and 2-0 up we’d probably have had it given (as we didn’t need it) but as we are, stuff goes against us and I expect it. Also because webb is a blind c*nt.
Newkie(Quote)
Kim-You never know, our players were knackered and anything can happen. Even Ranger has changed a game before 😉
Newkie(Quote)
Was a lot of “too little too late” by then though
Newkie(Quote)
Shamrock @25 ,Yep that pretty much sums it up mate .Nuts ,makes no sense at all to be playing the long ball, especially after last season we proved we’d moved on from that .
KIMTOON(Quote)
24 – Agreed. Little **** should have been booted out long ago. He has probably had an agent tell him his contract is beginning to wind down and if he wants a big fat new one somewhere then he should at least pretend to care about his career. If he is that thick thst he did not realise how lucky he was when he got signed up then he will always be avticking time bomb, just like the ‘too intelligent to be a footballer’ Joey Barton and his stupid Scouse/French accent.
Shamrock(Quote)
Newkie ,He’s got to be one of the worst refs ever ,can’t stand him.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Well said Shamrock @25. I’ve stopped listening to Pardew’s bollocks. He can see the jig is up now I believe. His plans if he ever had any have gone out the window. I’ve been shocked at the lack of tactical changes this season with the struggle we are going through. There was some sign last night that he is finding a way to use Cisse (who now seems to know what offside is) but we are still woeful at building up an attack from the back. With Willo and Simpson in there I can see why. Jonas seems to have decided to retire early. I saw him make a couple of decent defensive interecptions in the first half but that was about it. I agree with Kimtoon @21 that we definitely weren’t the better side last night except for about 25 minutes of the second half. They were all over us for large parts of the first half and most of the last 20 minutes. We couldn’t score on a set piece to save our lives. Stop pushing Willo up for corners as he is useless and he takes forever to get back into position. The number of problems we are faceing is almost endless.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Shamrock ,Yeah Joey is well cosmopolitan 😆
KIMTOON(Quote)
KIM i feared for us before the game but seeing Webb i knew we had little hope he hates the toon for some reason always has,he would have disallowed it if we had scored again 👿 surprised he didnt send one of our players off
icedog(Quote)
Kim 😆
Re; Llambastad, been thinking about him. Does it matter who the chairman is whilst Ashley is at the helm? I’m not so sure. The principles will always be the same whilst Ashley is around…
I would not say the fans should turn up in full support on Monday, but instead pack the stadium out and sing of their disgust at the lack of investment during the summer and the discontent at the direction we are heading in as well as the **** footy we are playing. Placards and everything. Keep the stadium full so Ashley has no excuses not to spend, but really hammer the owner and manager – in the right way.
If you dont speak up you dont get heard.
We will never beca laughing stock when Chelsea are making a complete *** of themselves!
Shamrock(Quote)
Well if the negativity starts up I’m not sure we’ll ever get out of this rut. We need a win soon and see where we go from there. Ashley won’t leave, probably won’t sack llambo and if he sacks pardew he’ll please some fans and we’ll get someone just the same and we’ll still be ******.
Newkie(Quote)
Ok, obviously our ***** run of form is clearly due to my lack of involvement in the blog. I will now take a more active approach so that we may win against Wigan.
Sorry lads- the blame should fall to me. Now that I’m back, I predict a winning streak of at least 5 games. We will also be signing Wayne Rooney and Gareth Bale in January. lol 😉
OHurley(Quote)
Fair enough Newkie, I’m hoing to hold off fully blown calls for ‘Ashley Out’ and ‘Pardew Out’ until after the Wigan and Fulham games. I think it’s fair to expect 100% effort from the players for the full 90 minutes, a different approach from Pardew and 4 points minimum…. if they can do that then we will be Ok. If they dont then itvteally will be ‘Squeeky ***
time!’
Shamrock(Quote)
Hurley you should be ashamed of what you have done to us. Rooney though? Messi or Ronaldo if you please. Bale is a splendid choice though 🙂
Shamrock(Quote)
OHurley-Good lad. I was saying the other day we could do with a motivational speaker from the U.S to help the team out, maybe you can help the blog first and see where you go from there 😆
Shamrock-Yeah that’s fair enough. If we have benny back for both of them and perform to the same level I think we can win them both. If we lose them well the wheels will well and truly be off and I doubt i’ll be spending much time on here either. I’ll just watch our matches, go to work and then get pissed and cry about it in some corner of town
Newkie(Quote)
Shamrock,
I know! *hangs head in disgrace* I will be around much more now! We WILL win the league hahahaha!
How you’s been doing? Miss you guys!
OHurley(Quote)
Even if we start picking some points up, will the backfired gamble of running the club on a shoestring whilst expecting continual miracles to happen, make an impression on the powers that be?
I know Ashley likes a gamble, but he must be squirming now knowing he has shot himself in the foot by not adding more than the one player in the summer and freeing 4 or more senior players and the evidence is there for all to see, a shattered, injury ravaged shadow of last seasons team/squad.
We will get by, only just, but surely the books are balanced now and I just dont see the point of entering a European competition and not preparing for it properly, suicidal!
Robert(Quote)
Ditto Newkie, not been here much this season already due to heavy schedule combined with **** performances from the team.
Hurley been busy mate. Not been here much myself. Only posting lots today because I’m off work with flu!
What you been up to then?
Shamrock(Quote)
I only saw the highlights on match of the day and heard a bit of radio newcastle commentary. We defended their goals like a **** pub team.
You have to get touch tight to every opposing player within striking distance of our goal. We give the opposition the freedom of the park week in, week out.
A winger is rarely a threat on goal; if the full back gets done, the keeper should be able to deal with the narrow angle. The centre backs should stay disciplined and cut out the threat in the middle. So why does Colo go awol?
When their midfielders break, we’ve got to track them. We either haven’t got the legs or lack the mental discipline?
Why do we continually put ourselves under pressure by giving away needless free kicks that allow the opposition to put the ball in the box? Lack of discipline.
What is Pards doing? I heard on radio newcastle, he’s gone back to the drawing board and come up with a new plan ffs. He hasn’t got a clue what to do. I suggest he sorts out the lack of discipline. We need to work hard for 90 minutes and be tight at all times in the danger areas. We’re simply slovenly, wreckless and ill-disciplined. That’s how you get relegated.
The only saving grace is Sunderland are just as bad, if not worse.
Blackley & Brownlie(Quote)
Newkie,
I’ll do me best, mate
The biggest motivation thing we got is victories though. Wish I could have a sit down with the fringe players. I’d have them thinking they’re on an epic quest to save the world and have them playing like warriors. Alas, I’m just a yank in the US and known by only a handful of good people in the UK lol. Can someone get in touch with Pards? lol
OHurley(Quote)
Shamrock,
Busy as a one-armed paper hanger at the old job. Graftin’ like a dog lol. Making some cash though. Hopefully can make a trip to Newcastle in the next year. Soz to hear you’re down the SARS, mate. Make some colloidal silver. That’ll have ya right as rain in no time.
SO what’s the deal with Cabaye? Anybody got any details on his lingering injury?
OHurley(Quote)
“Now something I have noticed this season, came even more apparent Wednesday night in the shape of Demba Ba’s performance. We know Demba is an out and out goal scorer, but I swear, he is the greediest most selfish player I have ever seen wear a black and white shirt. It’s incredible. He NEVER passes the ball when he is anywhere within 30 yards of the goal or when other players are better placed. The Stoke game was a glorified example of this.”
http://www.toonbano.com/2012/11/is-demba-ba-harming-team-with.html?#.ULe1-qyWbts
Seems I am not alone in this view. This is the second article I have read in the last couple of days that mentions Ba’s greed and how it is to the detriment of the team.
The Kid(Quote)
Personally I think Ba’s “greed” may be down to the fact that there is no other flockers up there with him on the front line apart from Ciss, and he strays offside all the time. 🙁 I cannot remember the last time I saw a Toon midfielder on the front line supporting the strikers. Our four defensive midfielders cannot get up the pitch quick enough… 👿
If Ba puts in more long range shots like the one that brought us yesterdays goal then I’ll be happy.
I think Jonas is now officially finished as an attacking entity… 🙁
I thought Tiote made some really bad decisions yesterday, being caught with the ball, often choosing a suicide pass and putting his team mates under pressure. He’s needing quite a period of time to recapture his form from last season. Probably too much stop-start with this Europa League / suspension mallarcky… We need him back on form pdq.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Munich Mag
Give the article a quick read and you will see why his greed is not a good thing. Out of all of his shots, hardly any of them actually create goals. He would create a lot more if he just played the ball to a team mate in a better position. He goes for glory and this is reflected in his stance regarding playing anywhere other than up top.
Apparently he has been like this throughout his career, so I don’t really apportion any blame to our midfielders. Although I agree we don’t get enough bodies in the box.
I hope and pray Ba is replaced in Jan, or in the summer so that we can return to playing a 433.
The Kid(Quote)
The Kid-Nah you’re not alone mate. Theres a fair few on here that agree with you as well. I just worry that some are clouded by personal opinions of him.
I agree with Munich-at the end of the day if we get some more tasty shots like away we’ll score more goals. Cisse has followed in 3 after Ba’s shots I believe, this was the first one where he wasn’t offside. Clearly it can work.
As for passing to the others, can Tiote, Perch, Anita or Jonas even 1v1? Not on any evidence I’ve seen. I’d rather Ba take the shot.
Newkie(Quote)
can they finish 1v1 that should say*
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie
True, they may not be able to finish, but what’s to say they will end up shooting? Half the time they are just stood/running into a more dangerous area than Ba. After making the pass, Ba could run into space and put himself in a better position to receive the ball back and shoot from a much more dangerous position.
The Kid(Quote)
The Kid, I agree with you to a certain extent, Ba may have a tendency to be selfish sometimes, but it may be his way of trying to want to make things happen.
One thing I really do agree with is both Ba and Cisse’s ability to hold up the ball. They are either muscled off the ball too easily, or the ball pings around all over the place. Our ability to retain the ball within the team has been shocking all season imo, but if we cannot hold the ball up in the front line, then even if our laborious midfielders could support them then they’d be turning back on there heels to defend.
I thought Anita put in a huge amount of effort yesterday, and though I’m still not convinced if he can play the main man role, yesterday was a huge improvement from him in really trying circumstances against a strong and fast robust Stoke side.
Looking back on Pardew’s tactics yesterday he must take part of the blame because Jonas disappeared for the last 30 minutes, and Stoke attacked wholeheartedly down the toon left hand side. Surely young Fergie or another left sided player such as Marveaux would have put in a better shift ? At the end of the day both Stoke goals stemmed from our weak left side.
At the same time a draw would have been a fair result. That Pardew can come out with something as stupid as “the best team lost”, he needs his heeed looking at … 😯
Munich Mag(Quote)
8 goals in 14 tells me all I need to know about his contribution to our cause. Without him we would be boloxed. Nobody complained about his 17 goals last season? Lets save the slagging off for those who cant be bothered or are just *****, like Jonas, Williamson, Tiote to an extent and bar 1 game this season – Cisse.
The reason we are doing poorly is the constant aimless long balls, defenders that cant defend, wingers that cant cross, negative football, lack of effort and midfielders that dont bust a gut to support the forwards.
Absolutely staggering that some are slagging off pretty much the only player who is doing what he’s paid for this season – scoring goals?!
Shamrock(Quote)
OHURLEY taken you a while to get on the “wagon”mind wish i was on the wagon lately the way things are 😉
icedog(Quote)
The Kid-Or he could pass it to them, and the opportunity could be wasted. They may go for goal and miss. They may pass back and it may fail. I just feel if Ba is in a good position-which granted he isn’t always (but sometimes that doesn’t matter, -see Spurs game) and he feels confident he should go for goal. If Cisse knows that then he should be on top of the loose ball before any defenders, if the keeper has a mishap. Ba had several assists last year and often works well with Benny, (who is also guilty of being greedy, yet people want him as a playmaker-I include myself in that…)
Newkie(Quote)
Shamrock
I could easily argue that the reason he has 8 in 14 is because he refuses to pass. Whilst this may make his individual stats look good, it takes away from the rest of the team.
Carlton Cole said it when Ba was at West Ham, players just don’t bother making runs because Ba doesn’t pass.
The Kid(Quote)
Newkie
Ba only had 2 assists last season.
I just don’t think Ba shooting from anywhere and Cisse feeding off of scraps is a real partnership. It is one striker being greedy and the other playing second fiddle. It’s easy to name the times it has worked e.g. Spurs, but the majority of times his shots from 25 yards don’t work and this is my point. It is wasteful.
We can’t just say, “Ba might give another player the ball and they might waste it”. Surely we can’t go on like that?
The Kid(Quote)
He is a striker. The title says it all! I’m not having this debate. Get rid of the only consistent scorer we have had in years and watch us suffer big time. Mental.
Breaking news – Striker is selfish. fook me. Thank Christ he us ir we would be knackered.
Shamrock(Quote)
Shamrock@60, spot on regarding Ba. If he leaves in January we will be well and truly flocked. We do not have enough goals elsewhere in the side to save us from relegation.
We will turn our season round, but it will take a lot of effort.
Thought Collo was gash for both goals yesterday, he seemed to run out of steam towards the end. His positional play and rate of recovery for the second goal was horrendous.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Is Cisse not capable of obtaining the ball then? Can he not get into the right positions to receive it from Williamson or Krul like Ba manages? Get the ball on the ground, get the wingers putting crosses in, get a midfielder pushing up, get the defence disciplined again, get the work ethic re-installed and stop the long punts. That’s how we create more chances for Cisse et al…
Shamrock(Quote)
Think you are both missing the point. We do not have enough goals elsewhere? I would argue that if Ba were replaced by a striker like Remy, we would see Cisse’s form improve as he’ll be playing in tandem with HBA and Remy in a 433. I would also argue that HBA and Remy would both be a goal threat as wing forwards in a 433.
It’s so easy to say “we would be flocked if we sold Ba”, but it doesn’t paint an honest picture. People said the same about Arsenal without RVP. There was a stat and it was something along the lines of, ‘If RVP hadn’t scored his goals Arsenal would have finished in the bottom 5’ etc. These kinds of stats are pointless because they are just far too over simplistic. Yes, if you just subtract the players contribution and change nothing else it applies, but that is not reality.
In reality, we replace a player and alter our approach to games…
The Kid(Quote)
Shamrock, I think that Cisse has to maybe go through a learning period this season to recognise really how demanding the EPL is. Defenders are all over the strikers, not giving them a hint of space, and he is finding out now to his cost. I think ultimately a better player will come out of him at the end of the day, and he put in a great shift defensively in the second half. We all know he can score goals for toffee when the chances arrive, we just need to create the chances for him.
I think we’ll really see the best of Cisse when we get our more offensive minded players back in the team…Ben Arfa, Cabaye, and even to a certain extent Obertan. We really could have done with Obertan’s pace yesterday.
Munich Mag(Quote)
What makes you think the system would change if Remy was in the side as opposed to Ba? We have the same playing staff as last season when we played an effective 433, yet we dont use it? It’s the basics that need working in as well as a new defender. The rest will follow. Ba is the problem, his goals say all that needs to be said. I’m not continuing this argument now. Each tobtheir own but this notion is missing the real problems we have.
Shamrock(Quote)
+not the problem 😳
Shamrock(Quote)
ime starting to think pardew will never change the type of game he likes to play imo he doesnt play benny in a way thats best for the team,i think if we had the best play-maker in europe he would play him in a diff roll
icedog(Quote)
Shamrock
Remy would pay there because he would be willing to. His career so far has seen him play on both wings and up top by himself.
Ba doesn’t want to play there and has made that clear enough.
We played an effective 433 last season yes, but Ba still looked uncomfortable out on the wing. He kept drifting inside and his lack of technical ability limited us.
Also, I don’t agree this notion is missing the real problems we have. I think this is simply one of a number of problems we have.
The Kid(Quote)
The Kid-Ba had 5 assists last season mate. Not bad for a guy playing the poacher role for half a season.
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie
Says he has 2 here:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/99215/demba-ba?cc=5739
The Kid(Quote)
The kid-I’m not so sure his shots have gone that wayward this season. Benny and Cabaye have been the same. As has Cisse, except his have got out the stadium so far. So, maybe we should tell all of them to stop shooting from outside the box because there’s a pass open? They might score but why risk it, pass to someone closer and something better might happen?
I know he can be greedy, but like others say maybe it’s his way of getting things going, and with Cabaye and Benny out-the only other two who can shoot-and Cisse so far in horrific form, I have more confidence in him than anyone..
Newkie(Quote)
The kid-Official site has 5
http://www.nufc.co.uk/page/Assists/0,,10278~201110278,00.html
Take what you will I guess. Can always watch the goals again, I’ll probably resort to that next year if we get relegated 😀
Newkie(Quote)
In fact, according to ESPN stats, Ba has just 7 assists in the last SIX YEARS. Doesn’t sound like much of a team player, but I would have to look at the more granular stats to properly get an idea.
The Kid(Quote)
Ice-Yeah, I don’t get Pards sometimes. A lot of the time I’ve let him off with “too much change too soon” etc but I mean, patience is one thing, same and same again is madness.
Newkie(Quote)
Ba also has 90 more passes than Cisse this year and a higher accuracy. I don’t think he’s played that many more matches?
Newkie(Quote)