Not only have a lot of people become football finance analysts keen to know the details of the money side of things, but more recently a lot of people have turned into tactical masters and insist their way is the best way.
Now what is blatantly obvious is we, as a team, aren’t playing well at the moment and it’s tactics, or Alan Pardew and his implementation of them, that are getting the blame for the bulk of it. My own personal opinion is that they do have an impact on how we’ve been laying, but I also think it is a bit blinkered to think that it is only tactics that have been our downfall recently.
There are more factors behind it as Jonas Gutierrez has mentioned today in the local press. Long story short he basically said that tactics are one part of a winning team and that United have a number of systems that they train with and use depending on opposition. The big thing for me though is his insistence that the most important factor in any formation is the players giving 100%, which is strange really as I don’t think Jonas, uncharacteristically, can be tagged in that bracket right now.
Many factors combine to win a football match. Tactics are one part of it, but also individual player performance, morale, and luck all also play a part. I’m not saying that a 4-3-3 or a 4-1-3-2 or whatever wouldn’t have worked better, all I’m saying is that none of those formations could negate some of the poor individual performances that have contributed far more to our defeats in recent weeks. Name me one tactic that will stop our goalkeeper spooning clearances straight to the opposition or another which allows our players to actually make a pass to a player five yards away?
Much has been made of the 4-3-3 system that we used effectively last season. It was great to watch and we really opened teams with it, but we also had players playing in that formation who were bang in form. We had Papiss Cisse scoring from anywhere and everywhere, Hatem Ben Arfa showing that he can destroy teams on his own, Yohan Cabaye spraying the ball about, Jonas Gutierrez working his socks off, Fabricio Coloccini being some form of colossus and Tim Krul showing that he is one of the best young goalkeepers in Europe.
Is it any coincidence our performances have dipped along with the form of so may of our players? And is that down to tactics or is it down to other factors?
Troy see my post @ 137 there is 5 different referrals on different occasions as I said I don’t think there is owt bad meant I just don’t think it’s needed 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave-what period were they over? Some of them can’t be too recent, I don’t remember any other than today
Newkie(Quote)
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@BD
Aye. There’s a quite a few references to Jews there but they are all in the same context.
I just think M12 is too thick to see it 😛
That might get the racist ******* to respond and defend himself! 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Perhaps M12 is Jewish and has a chip on his shoulder or something ie the Jews get blamed for everything.
Like Big Dave says, absolutley no need for it
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Newkie over the last month and more, at 1st I just breezed past them and never thought owt about them but I noticed another one a couple of days ago on the Game on post and it made me think about it then when I seen it today again it struck me but I thought it was better not to draw any attention until Griff noticed 😉
As I said I don’t think theres any harm meant
Big Dave(Quote)
Troy 😆 😆 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
Troy meant to ask what do you think this Jan window will bring us ?
Does anyone know the dates for the window
Big Dave(Quote)
I see. Good work Inspector Dave 😉
Newkie(Quote)
Dave-1st of Jan to 31 st isn’t it? With a 10pm finish I assume.
Newkie(Quote)
Neewkie I was trying to find out how many times you’ve threw your toys outta the pram but I gave up in the end 😆 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
Newkie @ 159 I didn’t realise it was the whole month 😕 I knew it opened on the 1st but thought it closed around the 20th
Big Dave(Quote)
Just met Kevin Nolan and Andy Carroll in Dublin city.
Johno Toon(Quote)
Dave 😆
Gave up cause you couldn’t find any I suppose? No worries though mate
Maybe it is? I just think January window means all of Jan, it’s only the summer one that cuts out before the end of the month
Newkie(Quote)
Johno 😯
Not tweedle dum and tweedle dee?
Newkie(Quote)
Honest Newkie. Thanked nolan for his hatrick and called Carroll a *****.
Johno Toon(Quote)
John 😆
You’ve not just been on the drink? Got to be careful what I’m implying now with all this talk of racism… 😯
But if you’re serious, good on ya 😎
Newkie(Quote)
@Griff: Be still. I harbour no racist views toward anyone. I was simply trying to show how ludicrously silly some of the excuses for Cabaye not playing well. How desperate people are to blame anything and everything else rather than to come to the simple and only logical conclusion, that Cabaye is average at best.
Were you offended by my declaration about Cabaye being average or was it really to do with the fact I mentioned Jews?
If the latter I do apologise if I have caused offence. 🙁 If the former, I stand by my declaration that Cabaye is average is not slightly below. 😆
Michael12(Quote)
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@M12
That was no explanation. Why to you keep referring to Jews?
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Torres has still got to be worth at LEAST 32 million like.
😯
Rodzilla(Quote)
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@ Rodz
Long time nee see! 😎
See nee time long! 😎
Knee sea thyme long. 😯
Troy Stavers(Quote)
No worries Michael. So long as you find other reasons for people to think why Cabaye is pap in future 😉
griff(Quote)
So if Wenger get’s sacked, would people want him and would he come?
Newkie(Quote)
agadda broken fa-ace! 😯
Rodzilla(Quote)
36 pence for Amdy Carrol’s fayre
Rodzilla(Quote)
…bargin in my book 😯 🙂
Rodzilla(Quote)
Hello my name is Sharpy, I love to ***
Rodzilla(Quote)
\I fucking love bummin anarl like 😮
Rodzilla(Quote)
…aye, alreet then.
….kin bunch of gaze
Rodzilla(Quote)
**** flaps
Rodzilla(Quote)
squirty knockers 😯
Rodzilla(Quote)
Michael12
I don’t know how anybody can respect your views when you say that Cabaye is below average, and then you go on to say Williamson has been one of our best performers this season… 😆 🙄
Cabaye, even on his current poor form, has still been our best midfielder. Which unfortunately doesn’t say much for the rest.
I agree with those who say he isn’t a world class attacking midfielder some make him out to be.
But as a tenacious deep lying midfielder he is certainly better than average.
Good shot, good pass, good tackle, good energy. The only thing I believe he lacks is the stamina to get up the pitch in support of the strikers more often.
The team is far better with him in it though. Him and Tiote on form are excellent, but they then need a link player behind the striker to make it work.
When Ba was happy to perform that role, we did well. But ideally Ben Arfa or someone like Swansea’s Michu (a different type of link player) would be excellent in that role.
If you are expecting Cabaye to that player then he is never going to meet those expectations. Its like saying Claude Makalele was **** because he didn’t score or assist enough goals… 🙄
JJ(Quote)
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@JJ
That just about sums up Cabaye. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Bloody hell 😯 looks like a missed a blogging session last night. Pleased that racism rubbish got put to bed fairly quickly.
Johno Toon – 😆 bet that was a surprise meeting last neet. Good to see Carroll is making the most of his time on the side lines :roll:. Also clear to see we he chose WH over the toon – out on the **** with his pal. Think I would have given Nolan grief as well tho to be honest ‘thanks for the hat trick, but ya still a disloyal ******!’.
Newkie – I’d take Wenger in a heartbeat, the mans a genius in my opinion. He’s not too keen on defenders like but attacking wise reckon he’d bring back the ‘entertainers’ style of play. He is proving at Arsenal that he can work with financial restrictions as well. But (1) I don’t think he’d come to the toon, bigger clubs would want him and (2) Ashley wouldn’t pay his wage.
JJ – think your summing up of Cabs is spot on. I think some people thought he was a Nolan, Lampard or Gerrard style player – more offensive and he’s not, he’s more like an Alonso type player – well when he’s playing well he is anyway.
Sharpy17(Quote)
http://www.newcastleunited-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/pardew_cannot_produce_the_injury_card_against_wigan_771167/index.shtml?
icedog(Quote)
Ice – I personally don’t think it’s been a valid argument all season. Pardew said on transfer deadline day – when there was a chance of getting someone due to Raylors long term injury, and knowing it was a risk with others – that he was happy to go forward with the squad of players he has. He can’t then start twisting coz afew more have been crocked.
Sharpy17(Quote)
SHARPY agree 100%,to me sumit not right in camp could it be this 90grand ba says he wants or hes off,is that why hes being selfish on the pitch to keep himself as a goal-scorer and in the window of other clubs,its just a thought like
icedog(Quote)
Ice – yeah you may have a point there like, and the problem Pardew has at the is that he can hardly drop him, coz thanks to lack of form and not recruiting in summer, he has nee ****** else who will score goals!.
What’s your thoughts on Ba?, is he worth a 90k contract – or at least equal to Colo who I believe is the highest earner at the club?
Sharpy17(Quote)
SHARPY my thoughts are its a team game and hate it when a player tends to hold the club to ransom in some way,i know he has scored some great goals for us,but cissie and him dont work because of ba imo,senagal proved they dont work,in cissie defence he also scored some great goals even before he came to toon top scorer in germany twice i think in a poor team maybe cissie was hinting in the week when he said if he gets the service he will score,so imo let ba go and get his 90grand somewhere else and keep player who want to play for the toon and not money,need a little nippy forward in to play with cissie,antway thats my view mate 😉
icedog(Quote)
Anyone who thinks “we should be beating clubs like Wigan” needs to give there heeds a shake. There are NO easy games in the EPL, the least you need is 100% effort coupled with talent, the both go hand in hand. I fancy a really tough game on Monday night, but have a good feeling. We seem to have realised that we aint gonna get anywhere without putting in the effort, and we need to cut out the fatal poor personal errors of the like which costs us a point at Stoke.
We need BIG performances from Krul, Collo, Tiote and Ba to help the club build up some momentum.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Strikers can win games “alone” with a piece of brilliance, that’s why they can demand higher salaries, and rightly so I suppose at the end of the day.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Ice – I tend to agree with you mate, the only obvious concern is how much would it cost to replace Ba, and how little we sell him for.
I still can’t believe such a clause would be written into any players contract – absolutely absurd.
Munich – whilst I agree that there are no easy games, I do believe there are games we could expect to get points from. Games like Wigan would be one of those games. Don’t get me wrong mate, they should absolutely be respected but our squad of players are better than theirs and if they are all playing to form, then yeah, I’d expect to win this one.
Pardew has not had the distraction of Europa for a while now and would have had time to work on afew things like passing and set plays – so I’d expect to see a marked improvement from the players tomorrow night.
Sharpy17(Quote)
MM @ 190 I agree striker can and do demand higher money, but they should never be able to dictate and IMO thats what Ba has done, and because Pards is afraid to lose him for a pittance they ( the regime ) has caved into him, and I have said all along it will cause disharmony in the team.
Big Dave(Quote)
Brighton away again in the cup
Robert(Quote)
Brighton away in the cup again 🙄
Sharpy17(Quote)
Dave – do you think they will cave in or will they left him go do you think?. They held form with Barton, Nolan and Enrique – but then they didn’t have this stupid clause written into their contracts.
I think he needs another CF as it is (along with a FB, CB and RW) so to have to folk out for another is gonna get pretty bloody expensive like.
Sharpy17(Quote)
It’s ok, I’ve just noticed that the cup tie is the weekend of the 5th &6th Jan – so well have a couple of new signings available for that one 😯
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy I don’t think they will cave into the reported £90k a week, but maybe they thought by letting him decide where and when he would play would keep him happy. I know the talk is supposed to be coming from his agents and not Ba himself but as I said before the last time the stories coming out about Ba not being happy etc etc that his agents work for him so if he’s not happy with what his agents are saying or doing then he has the power to stop it.
I am just pissed of with the Ba circus and his lip trailing the ground when he didn’t get what he wanted, and for me Cisse is a better striker and would have done a lot better than he has if he had of been played in the position that he naturally thrives in, and not had his confidence knocked out of him by Pards favoring Ba before a ball was kicked.
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave – so based on the likelihood Ba will **** off when we refuse to pay him £90k a week, what do you reckon they’ll do to replace him, considering were only likely to get around £3.5m for the huffy sod 🙁
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy that will be a problem, because imo it doesn’t matter if we already need a top quality CB or anyone else it will be one or the other with the regime, the only plus part is that Jabba mightn’t be as keen to gamble this time as he can’t afford to lose out on the extra money from TV rights next season. I said it before I think an Oba Martins type of striker would be good
Big Dave(Quote)
😆 When asked if the injury crisis ripping through his squad has changed transfer plans next month, Pardew said: “It has increased the discussion.
“We had an idea where it was going to go.
“It might change before we get there.”
Im sure we can guess where it was going to go straight to Lambastad then in the bin 😀
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave-I don’t disagree with all your points but how do you work that one out
“by Pards favoring Ba before a b”all was kicked.”
If you’re referring to this season it’s pretty clear Pards dropped Ba and wanted Cisse to lead the line, but due to his poor form had little choice but to play Ba to finish our chances…
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie Pards assured Ba before the season started that he would play in the middle ? no
Big Dave(Quote)
He actually said “and 90% of the time I think that’s where he will play” or something alone those lines. So if he’s a striker and Cisse is a striker, how is that favouring Ba? In fact, it looks to favour Cisse, who you would assume would have been starting up front for 100% of the time?.. 😕
Newkie(Quote)
21 Jul 2012 – And he had indicated that he will do everything he can to ensure Ba … “And I think that in 90% of the games that’s where he will play.
So considering the Prem never started until 18th Aug, Pards had allready made up his mind and it wasn’t because of form
or am I missing something 😕
@ 203 I don’t know how you work that one out because I read from that that Cisse will only play the other 10% of the games through the middle
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave-Eh, how can Cisse not be playing central in 4-4-2 😯
It wasn’t because of form….not because of pre season form then? Where Ba was again better than Cisse imo.
Pards’ statement also suggests that when playing, Ba will play centrally. He doesn’t even state Ba will be first choice so it could have meant Pards envisioned Ba and Cisse rotating/fighting for the single striking role…When we changed shape in our early matches, it was Ba who was moved out wide, where he scored and then he was dropped for Everton even though Cisse was off form…
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie all I need to know to make up my mind is what Pards said, so no matter what way you dress it up I will still be of the same opinion of Pards gave Ba an assurance that he will basically be the main ( No1 ) striker, if you take something different from that statement then your entitiled to your own opinion.
As for preseason there was only 2 games before Pards gave Ba the assurances which were against Chemnitzer which Ba came on at 77mins for Sammi and Cisse never played
The 2nd game against Monaco Ba started and again Cisse wasn’t in the team
So how can you state ” It wasn’t because of form….not because of pre season form then? Where Ba was again better than Cisse imo.
So in your opinion would Cisse not have had to been playing for you to form your opinion that Ba was better than him 😳 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
Fair enough I didn’t check the dates about pre-season, but Ba was better than Cisse over the course of it regardless. But then you ignore my points about the actual season-surely the more important part :shock
Pards showed he was willing to push Ba to the wing and he also showed he was willing to drop Ba in favour of an out of form Cisse. How is that favouring Ba? Or do you disagree
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie > ” But then you ignore my points about the actual season-surely the more important part :shock”
How do you expect me to have time to answer that when i’m trying to prove what I said was right about Pards giving Ba his assurances before the season kicked of, then you said that it was because he was better in preseason, so I then had to prove you were wrong again. 😉
Now you say that parts dropped Ba for an out of form Cissie As I have said maybe Cisse was out of form because he knew the manager had favoured Ba regardless of form or how he done last season.
Oh and has it ever occured that Ba mightn’t have played the one game you say he was dropped in because of a niggle or something, which would mean he wasn’t dropped in favour of Cisse ???
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave 😕 Well again, if you’re going to be pedantic about “proving me wrong” Pards’ statement actually took place after two games-not what you said “before a ball was kicked” 😆 😆
So you’re saying Cisse was out of form because he was told he would be partnering Ba up front? Or he was disappointed by that? The guy he was brought in to play alongside with and he can’t deal with that 😯
He was dropped for the Everton match, where he would later come on. Clearly wasn’t carrying a niggle for that, in fact I’m pretty sure Pardew said himself he dropped him so he could play a different formation.
Newkie(Quote)
I see Norwich is ahead 2-1 at the half. I have to be pleased for Chris as he is such a gentleman and was treated poorly by Ashley. If they are to go above us with good play so be it. Then it’s up to us to put on a good show on Monday. I wish Hughton nothing but success. He has too much class to rub Ashley’s nose in it if they finish above us this season but I don’t. It would be a shocker but right now I’m not prepared to bet against it happening. Come on Ashley, grow a set and get involved in improving the prospects for your team.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
G2-Yeah, watching it at the moment. Still can’t believe I kind of want the mackems to score….I suppose we need these teams to keep drawing, although Norwich are looking a very steady side at the moment 😕
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie if you want to try to find a way to worm out of the fact that you said things that were proved wrong then welt away
The simple facts are that Pards gave Ba the assurance before the season started and ” before Cisse had kicked a ball ” and before he could make the decision on form 😳
Big Dave(Quote)
http://cricfree.tv/sky-sports-1-live-stream.php
if anyone’s interested
Newkie(Quote)
Sorry I’m wrong about that, Norwich already has 16 points 😳 It’s a sad state of affairs Newkie when we have to hope Sunderland get a point. If Norwich does win there will be a small gap opening above us which would be terrible given our next run of games. To struggle to get out of 14th would be very hard on the supporters but possible Ash/Llam would start to feel the heat? Let’s hope so.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Dave-Fair enough if that’s your view, but considering Pards both moved Ba to the left and dropped Ba when fit he was clearly not favouring him imo-but was forced into it during the season because of form. So far nobody has given me any good reply or evidence to suggest against that, and you’ve avoided talking about those bits as well.
Newkie(Quote)
Kilgallon missed an open net 😆 😆
Newkie(Quote)
G2-For me it’s all about the points mate, I don’t care where we are after each game, it changes all the way up till the end of the season anyway. I just want us getting to 40 points and three or more sides to keep the draws up, agree about it being a sad state of affairs though. Hopefully it won’t last long but we’ll see…
Newkie(Quote)
Michael – You dont think Cabaye is creative and for some reason you mention ‘The Jews. YOu’re clearly a man to avoid.
Troy – Its hard to really know what it’s like to work with Llambias day to day, but if we take him on his word that he likes a manager to challenge him and seeing as we have a continental set up behind the scenes I would want Laurent Blanc to come in.
He loves Cabaye, he likes Benny (even with the Euros spat), his philosophy is 4-3-3 and passing the ball to feet, he would get all of the French speaking players on board immediately, he would also be a huge draw to any future recruitment from France and Europe plus he wont take any sh*t. Can you see a man like Blanc accepting Llambias playing around or allowing Demba Ba to dictate his team selection?
He is looking for a job. I’d get him in.
But that just me.
ToonBano(Quote)
Just looking at the fixture list and there is a 3 game set in mid-Jan which is Norwich (a), Reading (h), Aston Villa (a) that could well be crucial for us. If we were to win those 3 it might put us back in mid-table. Surely Pardew will have to be aiming for at least 7 points from those games. If we were to get only 2 it would be another huge blow and the window would only have 2 days remaining. I like your idea about Laurent Blance Toonbano @218 but he would probably want nothing to do with Llambias and probably too many assurances from Ashley. Sad to say but leadership and quality has to come from the top and we seem to be lacking there.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Dave – sorry I went missing mate, just read the full article on SSN that you have quoted Pards from.
Finally something that almost resembles a recognition of a **** up by himself and the board!.
To say it was a gamble is an understatement!!, granted he couldn’t predict the number of injuries we’ve had. But what about the ACoN?. He had a 50/50 chance of loosing both Ba and Cisse to the Cup of Nation and had no plan B if that happen!.
What kinda front line would he have went with then?
It’s good that the club are analyzing whether they ‘undercooked’ things – but if they find that they did, what course of action will Ashley take?, baring in mind that whoever was ‘undercooking’ things may have heavily influenced the team being involved in a relegation battle or worse.
Sharpy17(Quote)
So 4th win in a row for Norwich 😯
Bloody clueless chris and his good tactics eh 😆
ToonBano-Good point about Llambias supposedly wanting a manager who would challenge him in. They’re pretty unpredictable bosses though and in all honesty I usually thought that was a bluff to suggest that they could be dealt with and brought round to viewing something from a football perspective when I’m not convinced that’s the case…
Newkie(Quote)
@Toonbano: Many thanks:
Your comments show you to be the fantasist you are.
“He loves Cabaye, he likes Benny (even with the Euros spat), his philosophy is 4-3-3 and passing the ball to feet, he would get all of the French speaking players on board immediately”
So what would be important to you in deciding a manager to replace PArdew would be someone who shares your obsession with Cabaye, plays 4-3-3 and gets French players on board.
My Question is Why those specific factors? IS that what our problem currently is, Cabaye is not loved, we are not playing 4-3-3 and the French players are not on board?
No body here knows what Llambias is like or what it is like working with him. You all seem to be concluding that he is a nightmare to work with him. You hear one side of the story and that is enough for you.
Michael12(Quote)
dissappointed with that Norwich win today. It means even if we can get all 3 points tomorrow night, the highest we can climb in the league is 14th 🙄
We really cant afford to slip very much further behind.
Getting a tad desperate now.
🙁
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
In hindsight the fifth place finish looks more and more like a bridge too far for us last season. We were ill-prepared for the extra games, and came into this season with a smug, self-satisfied owner/MD partnership with no real insight into the game. The purple nonsense clearly shows that. Over and over again Llambias has over-estimated our depth and quality on the bench probably with a helping hand from Pardew who should now be scaling down his estimates of the quality of the likes of Willo, Simpson, Obertan, Fergie (not unskilled but very inexperienced) and the injury-prone statues of Saylor who like it or not is a key player at the back with only Willo in reserve. Very clearly demonstrates the danger of having management with no real football insight.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Newkie “So far nobody has given me any good reply or evidence to suggest against that, and you’ve avoided talking about those bits as well”
I was responding to Sharpy @ 197 and stated “for me Cisse is a better striker and would have done a lot better than he has if he had of been played in the position that he naturally thrives in, and not had his confidence knocked out of him by Pards favoring Ba before a ball was kicked.”
Then @ 201 you jumped in with ”
Dave-I don’t disagree with all your points but how do you work that one out
“by Pards favoring Ba before a b”all was kicked.”
So I have been trying to explain how I worked it out but accordin to you I was wrong and you then stated a few things that were wrong
But the original point that I was making to Sharpy that Pards had given Ba the assurances before the season had started or Cisse had kicked a ball was all true. So please feel free and tell me how I was wrong that Pards had given Ba an assurance before the season started or Cisse had kicked a ball, which to me says that the decision was Not made on the form of the players ? 😉
You seem to be getting into a habit of challenging my views and while im trying to explain them you will try to change things or say im being pedantic, and you will also throw in other question, then you will try to say that I wont answer your points 😯 ❓ How can I have time to answer you when im busy getting evidence to prove to you that I wasn’t just making **** up
Big Dave(Quote)