115 thoughts on “Taking the positives: Financial Fair Play

  1. Cracking analysis Prem. 😉

    So we should be up with the best of the rest. That would be true if we had decent players and a decent manager. There lies the problem.

    The manager is the most important position.

    We should have spent more money getting Rafa in when we had the chance.

    A top manager can get get average players playing at their peak and that would help us achieve the clubs aims. The best of the rest.

    Looks like another long season trying to avoid relegation to me.

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  2. TROY i have to disagree with a couple points,i think we have some very good players mate,if we had all the barca players at our club pardew would bring them down to his tactical level which is nil,plus rafa would not come down to jabba level no budget to work with,i think we have to accept we will remain a 2nd rate club while hes stays here a dam shame for 52thou fans spending their hard earned cash to turn up to suffer it 😥 😥

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  3. Great stuff there Prem. A couple of questions:

    So the 30M or so increase in TV money can be used for transfer fees?

    Also, can you confirm that the increased TV money is mostly payable after the season as a result of prize money and appearance fees?

    Thanks.

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  4. Blimey Prem ,I got a headache now 😆 .Seriously though ,very enlightening figures there.
    Question .So if West Hams Cash for wages can increase by £115k a week ,we know Carroll will get the Bulk of that sum ,say £80k a week leaving £25k wages for any other new signings is that right?

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  5. Good read Prem and thanks for the hard work involved in putting it together.
    Onething I will say is that I 100 % believe that the players we brought in last Jan were brought in because of the fear of relegation, Lambastad said as much after saying that they made a mistake in not bringing more players in during the summer and that the Jan signings were to be brought in this summer but they had to bring it forward.
    As for bringing in more revenue well if SD had to pay for the coverage they are getting it would bring in a very nice amount of cash, remember aswell the naming rights that Lambastad talked about getting us a top player every year well where is he, because as far as I see we haven’t bought anyone.

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  6. MDS I know your not asking me but from what I read the increased money is payed out at the end of the season, and the bottom team this year will be guaranteed at lest £60 mil

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  7. No the £30m cannot be spent on wages, only £4m of that money can be spent on wages. I’m not sure of how the cash flows. I think the equal payments are paid up front the appearance moneys as and when, whilst the merit payment at the end of the season, but I don’t know.

    I think the 5 players signed in January were earmarked for this summer, I think that pre-contract agreements were in place for some of them. A decision was made to bring that forward and the motivators for that decision would have included the threat of relegation. It also may have included a bit of foresight.

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  8. Ice

    From my observations, the players are average. I understand your point about Pardew but if you are playing Shola, Sammy, Debuchy, Santon, Anita, Goofy then you can’t expect good things.

    Cisse never had one pass to him in the 18 yd box.

    The players are average and it’s more evident by the game.

    There’s a major problem which many of us predicted. Players will not want to stay and play for us if we show no ambition.

    We have one of the most influential players in Cabaye who wants away and it’s an impossibility for that not to affect the dressing room morale and particularly the French players and we’ve gambled on buying a considerable amount of them despite the obvious risks.

    Absolute shambles.

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  9. Another point is that since MA no longer owns SD it is not in his gift to sponsor NUFC the way we would like him to. Remember he is not paid by SD and his bonuses are currently frozen.

    Looking at the figures it is important to recognise we are probably the best run club in the premiership. Not the most ambitious, but as Troy says. Best of the rest and I expect that to be reflected on the field with a top 10 finish, ideally 7th or 8th

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  10. Great read Prem, interesting stuff, I agree with Dave though about bringing the players in to avoid relegation, if anything Ashley would have preferred their “shrewd planning” to have kept the wage limits lower ad not increase it imo.

    Kim…I guess as West Ham paid all of AC’s wages last year when he was on loan then his salary will already have been included in last years figures, plus he’ll have taken a pay cut when he joined so that will have freed up even more cash for other players wages….I think 😕

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  11. Also as the regs read West Ham are exempt from the regs and can hence spend what they like. If the go above £56m to say £125m then they will be caught by the regs next season. That’s £52m this summer, £56m next summer etc.

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  12. In the article I gave fiures on the basis that they merely play catch up to £56m ready for next summer.

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  13. Ah right(ref WHUFC) I’ll shut up then, they don’t call me “Mr Thick Black Thick Adder Thicky” for nowt you know :mrgreen:

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  14. Ritchie so long as you recognise that that is your interpretation and don’t try and beat up Ashley for behaving in accordance with you pessimism that’s fine by me.

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  15. No Ritchie I agree with your comments re WHam. & AC you may even be right. enjoy, it doesn’t happen often :mrgreen:

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  16. Preman..As I said just my opinion, don’t know if it’s right or wrong, only the men at the top know for sure 😉

    Ref AC…woo hooooo I’m right, well possibly but that’s good enough for me :mrgreen:

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  17. Haven’t got a clue Dave. What I see is they did the right thing from the FFP regs. So I’m giving credit where due. It may be serendipitous and they may or may not have done it anyway. I don’t think they were planning it six months earlier. I’m sure the fear of relegation was a major factor. Not sure it was the only one.

    Must be a great article it that’s the only quibble 😆

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  18. Prem &Richie ,thanks for clarifying .It’s just that they have spent £21.700m on new arrivals and got back £8.140m on departures . That’s 5 newbies so must be a fair bit of wages on that lot.

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  19. Hi Kim it sounds like they are playing catch-up knowing they don’t have to buy a new stadium. 👿 Don’t think they are being stupid however.

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  20. Prem ,So how do Spuds get around the no more than £4m rule then ,as they have brought loads of expensive players in ,or does Bales sale cover that? ,sorry I know I’m proper thick like 😆

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  21. TROY@10 think you mean they are playing less than ave,have watched a number of them quite a lot all be it at their last club and they played v well,they played quite well when they first came and had to find there feet,but pardew soon put a stop to that trying to fit his fav around them,square pegs in round holes,the man is a ********

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  22. Off topic but Ba not anywhere near Chelsea team tonight , take note mr Cabaye ,things don’t always pan out the way you wish. 😉

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  23. Prem – thank you for this mate. I know you’ve just cut and paste it but its appreciated 😉 😆

    So basically at the end of last season most of us thought we needed maybe 4-6 players added to the squad to proved that depth. That would have been a couple of CFs, a wide left and a replacement for Simmo and selling and replacing the likes of Willo. The type of adding and reshuffling the likes of Norwich and Swansea have done for example.
    With the TV money and that ability to increase expenditure to 36.6m we could and should be making those improvements to our squad.

    Now I’m not suggesting we should have spent all the TV money or take the wages to the max, but had we been in a possession to strike and a plan in place surely it could have been done.
    Pardew would have sat down with his coaches, Carr, DL and Lee Chamley to discuss who he is happy to keep in his squad, who needs replacing and where they want to strengthen – and potential targets.
    The only person replaced in that counsel was DL for JFK as we all well know. So I truely don’t understand why 1) that wasn’t done sooner if it was in MAs mind, and 2) why everything seemed to stop just for JFK – which suggests to me he DOES have the final say.

    Their were players available on a free or low fee that would not have demanded a high wage that would have improved our squad – but we didnt go for them. Either because we weren’t ready when the window opened (coz of JFK appointment) or because we are very naive and the people we have in those roles either don’t have their eye on the ball or have had restrictions placed on them from the board.

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  24. Prem ,so we really do need to off load Cabs just to inject some fresh blood into our team. Please PSG make us an offer for Cabs and Debuchy 😉

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  25. Kim not necessarily. I’m sure if we wanted to the Wonga money etc could be used to get in the extra players we need. Any good accountant could ensure we get the players we need. The FFP regs provide a framework, that’s all. If we wanted to we could do more. We could loan the money FFS style and stay within the European overspend limits and buy the players we want, however we appear to have chosen a strategy which is admirable for it’s prudence and we are not buying established star.

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  26. Prem – do me a favour mate, just clarify the following for me please, coz I read it that could increase the wage bill (at a risk).

    Of course if we wanted to be risky/ambitious we could have increased expenditure to £36.6m (€45m) over income – in other words £129.9m. If all this extra had been spent on wages we would have had a wage bill of £108.3m, which would have paid for a few more players (£850kpw extra. New team at £75kpw each) and still been within the regs.

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  27. Prem that was the main point I had to make, and that I think the club should be bringing in a lot more money, but sure who is going to be doing that now as it was Lambastads job ? come to think of it we dont even have a chairman now or is that JFK aswell 😆

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  28. Dave, no as far as I know we don’t have a commercial manager and personally IMHO Llambias was charged with dramatically increasing the commercial revenue, failed and hence was sacked.

    Sharpy I have not done an analysis as to the most we could do within the regs, because that is not what I perceive to be the objective of the Owner,. I believe we could do a lot more. What we appear to be doing is trying to consolidate our position as best of the rest and relying on incompetence elsewhere to achieve the occasional European outing.

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  29. News breaking here in Holland that Finbogasson from Heerenveen is in talks with Cardiff city FFS , the guy is a goal machine ,even his trainer said a while back he is good enough to develop in to the sort of player that he was . His trainer is a certain Marco Van Basten and the lad will be that good . what the **** is our scouts doing only scouting France . My blood will boil over if he goes to Cardiff and we have not even scouted him . 😈 😈 😈 😈

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  30. Alex Pearce (Reading) was available on a free transfer at the end of last season and for me would have been a good replacement for Willo.

    Andreas Weimann (Villa) was available on a free transfer at the end of last season and could have either been one of the 2 forwards we brought in, or replace Obertan who I don’t believe has much of a future with us.

    Arouna Kone (Wigan) went to Everton for £6m (which to me isn’t ridiculous) but is 29yrs and out of our recruitment policy.

    Nathan Redmond (Bham) went to Norwich for around £2.5m and would place Obertan for me.

    Franco Di Santo (Wigan) was a free transfer and in my own opinion would replace Shola for me. He ain’t brilliant but he’s younger and wages would be less.

    Scott Sinclair (Man City) went to WBA on loan for around £2m, which we could have. But also I think City wanted around £5m fee.

    Tom Ince (Blackpool) is available for around £8m and wouldn’t be on a huge wage – maybe around 30k pw.

    These are just afew examples of players that have moved or renewed contracts with their clubs that IMO could have improved our squad.
    If we are struggling with the wage bill though, I also can’t work out why the hell we are no actively looking to move players like Gosling, Obertan, Willo, Shola then Amalfitano, and other players who they don’t see having a future or playing much of a role – get rid!.
    If we can or won’t buy, then move players on so the funds and space is there when the right player at the right price comes up.

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  31. Axel@36 ,That’s not good mate if true . Really hacks me off that our targets all hail from France ,there ARE other countries ffs. 👿

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  32. Axel – we should definately be looking at that type of player. He is probably more ‘signable’ (if that’s even a word) than the likes of Ayew and Gomis as well.
    He already leading scorer this season as well I think isn’t he?.

    Prem – just reading that makes my ******* blood boil!. I completely agree though. I think he’ll do the bare minimum and hope it works out.
    But IMO if that’s going to be his approach, he needs a manager who can get the absolute most out of the players we do have. If he isn’t going to improve the playing staff, then IMO he needs to improve his manager and coaching staff.

    That’s a point mate. Do those figures cover manager and coaches wages as well or is it just playing staff do you know?.

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  33. My guess would be that it covers ground staff as well, but the wages are far smaller than the player wages

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  34. Just been reading Finbogasson had a move to celtic fall through because they offered 2.5 million euros a german club offered 4.5 million Herenveen want 10 million euros . Is that not the price we offered for Gomis ffs this lad is twice the player that Gomis is

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  35. Axel ,Once again if true we have to go in for him ,seen him mentioned on a couple of sites now ,he is highly rated.

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  36. Axel – totally agree. The lads goal scoring record speaks for itself 30 in 35 games according to wiki.
    He’s 24 and not only would he probably demand less wages than Gomis but he’d probably have alot fewer agents wanting a slice.

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  37. SHARPY 30 in 35 is just about right ,i really am doubting the scouting skills of Carr . I reckon he only has contacts in France ,that can be the only reason we are so obsessed with France these days .

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  38. Kim – would you take Adebayor if they offered him?. I personally wouldn’t fancy him at all and it would be one sulk out another in IMO.

    Axel – when we got tiote and Anita and were looking at the likes of Douglas and Luuk De Jong I thought we were about to start picking up quality from that league as well before moving on to Belgium and other leagues. But I now think you may have a point. I could understand it if we were having great success in securing quality players from that league but all we seem to be doing is pissing French football presidents off

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  39. Sharpy ,Nah not him ,prefer Defoe and Townsend .Nee chance though ,don’t see anyone coming in now it’s getting too late. Reckon Cabs will go very close to deadline and we won’t replace him or Ba imo.

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  40. SHARPY17 @37
    ‘ I also can’t work out why the hell we are no actively looking to move players like Gosling, Obertan, Willo, Shola then Amalfitano’
    I think the trouble is, getting rid of those players will not have much of an effect on the wage bill. Certainly Gosling, Willo & Amalfitano will be relatively very little. (Compared to the amounts taken up by the likes of Colloccini & Remy) If we get rid of those players, and who’s to say anybody wants them/ they are sitting on contracts, then who comes on after a few injuries, we are down to under-21 players from the stiffs. I don’t think Shola is good enough (for the premier league) but who could we get in for the same wages that would be better? Any decent striker would not sign for Shola’s wages. So I can see why we need to make a saving elsewhere ie. Cabaye off the wage bill and a striker on. And I think we cross our fingers and toes that Anita can play like that every week.

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  41. DJG Anita can play like that every week ,but he needs a run in the side to prove it and Pardew favours Tiote above him every time . That needs changed for me when cabs goes and it should be Sissoko ,Anita, Marveaux , Bigi and Tiote in that order in the picking order . Well i am off too bed good night lads and lasses

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  42. AXEL
    I have no doubts about Anitas technical ability. He is vastly superior to Tiote IMO, certainly with the ball. The only thing I worry about is his diminutive size and the physical requirements of this league. Pardew needs to stop picking Tiote ahead of him I agree, people say he can’t tackle but how many stupid free-kicks does he give away on the edge of the box compared to Tiote, and how many cards does he get compared to Tiote? Also Pardew would play Jonas if he could but look at the chances we had down the left without him. Sammy is a wildcard / hopeful prospect at best IMO but look at the players he beat and crosses he put in from the left compared to Guttierez. Pardew HAS to stop making Guttierez first choice this season he was a good players for the club but is well past it now (as a winger).

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  43. Kim – I’d take Sigurdsson from Spuds with Defoe.

    DJG – how often did any of those players feature last season with injuries and Europe. Willo and Oba maybe the most but I don’t think they will feature at all this season if Pardew can help it.
    If you get rid of all of them and it only frees up 40 to 50k a week it’s better than nowt and I’d rather get one player in on 40k who will player than have 4 getting paid for doing sod all.
    If Pardew doesn’t rate them then I’d rather turn to the young uns and give them the opportunity to be honest with you mate.
    Regarding Shola. I reckon the lad Axel is talking about Finbogasson would take Sholas wage. Bet he’s not on a load where he is.
    As I say, Franco Di Santo would have replaced Shola on a free for me. He ain’t world class but he could do more than Shola IMO.

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  44. Axel/DJG – I have read on a couple of other sites them slagging Anita off for playing the ‘safe pass’ at the weekend?!
    How is that a bad thing FFS like?!. If we retain the ball surely that’s a good thing isn’t it?!.
    I thought the kid looked very good in there and I don’t think the physical thing is an issue.
    Players like Leon Britton and Leon Osman have got by and become important players for their clubs.
    Whether Cabaye stays or goes I’d be happier with Anita in the team ahead of Jonas and Tiote every week.

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  45. SHARPY17
    I would prefer we got rid of Guttierez for £40k a week and kept all of those players to be honest, we need squad players, a 4th choice CB etc. I can’t see Pardew getting rid of Obertan because he is one of ‘his’ few signings for £3M from Man U (I don’t think Carr wanted him) and it would basically be an admission of failure, so I can’t see that happening. 🙂

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  46. Pardew tried Shola to provide the chances for Cisse in a 4-4-2 to start with against W’Ham but it didn’t work and Shola just ended up in a shoving match with Collins (who had the game plan sussed). Pardew needs to think outside the box a bit in my opinion. Against Fulham, if he tries this again just substitute Collins for Brede Hangeland (who is a giant). I would like to see us try and play football and I think these players in this formation could be awesome if given the time to learn each others movements and passing.
    ——————Cisse———————
    Sammy———Marv————-HBA-
    ———–Sissoko–Anita—————-
    Santon—Colo—-Yanga—-Debuchy
    ——————-Krul————————

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  47. It seems as if there’s a soft wage cap in place. Soft because you are free to go over it if you have the commercial income to cover anything in excess of the cap, or your owner is willing to spend his/her own money, or maybe give an interest free loan to the club.

    But why are the rules a problem for us? I can sort of see it, but not quite.

    For instance, let’s use the figures in the article, presume the tv deal is indeed worth around the 60m mark and do away with decimal points for ease of use:

    Income now becomes 153m (93m from the article + 60m tv money)
    We don’t use any tv money on wages (because we can’t).
    We increase the wage bill to the level of our income, ie, 93m. (which is totally acceptable under the rules)
    Therefore expenditure rises to 114m.
    We are still in profit to nigh on 40 million quid, and the ratio of wages to income is reduced to 60%.

    Thus there is 40m to spend on players and leeway for a 29m increase in the wage bill.

    And for every million not spent on wages, there’s an extra million to the bottom line. If each player brought in costs 4m a year in wages, I’d say there’s room for 3 or 4 decent sized signings and we’d still run at a profit greater than the one mentioned in the article.

    The next season might be a bit trickier, though, especially if we get relegated.

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  48. Get French Football ‏@GFN_France 5h
    Huge news: L’Equipe will report tomorrow that PSG are going to renter the race for Yohan Cabaye because close to ridding loads of CM’s. #PSG

    Get French Football ‏@GFN_France 4h
    L’Equipe (tomorrow’s edition): Newcastle will refuse to sell Yohan Cabaye to Arsenal at all they claim. #NUFC #AFC #PSG

    Get French Football ‏@GFN_France 4h
    So PSG back in for Cabaye, Newcastle will refuse to sell player to Arsenal no matter what according to tomorrow’s @lequipe. #PSG #AFC #NUFC

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  49. Nice idea Bris except we earned £45m from TV this year so the increase would be to £93 + £15m = say £110m take away say £25m costs that would leave £85m on wages. Reality is the figures in the article are from the year we finished 5th, Last year we will have earned less from TV so income less etc. However that is probably only a minor adjustment.

    Getting relegated is not a good idea. Last season would have been worse though.

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  50. @Bris

    I thought you were winding us up there. 😯

    Wow! An extra £60m on top of last seasons TV revenue. 😯 😆

    Howay fella! There would be people on here demanding we sign Bale if we got that much more. 😆

    The amount works out a minimum of £20m extra on TV revenue Last year the bottom club got £40m. This year they get £60m.

    Begas, you stick to formations and Aussie you stick to bashing the Ute. 😆

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  51. Will do Troy 😉 ….. oh, I showed the missus your twitter picture and she said you looked like Reg Hollis from the Bill TV series 😆 😆 😆

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  52. @Aussie

    Have you not seen my video of me sleeping in the cupboard on holiday?
    Go on YouTube and type Troy sleeps in cupboard again!!!!! Part 1 & Part 2.
    It will have to be the UK YouTube of course.

    Fizzin! 😡

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  53. Troy, I have searched for it every day in your absence, finally it is available, yippee 😯 😛

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  54. M… I’d be surprised if they’d say they’ll refuse to sell to Arsenal(at least publicly anyway), if as it appears that Cabaye wants to go he will as the only alternative would be to keep an unhappy player which Ashley won’t do as he’d rather have the cash, therefore to get the highest amount possible he’ll need to keep Arsenal in the running so he can play them and PSG against each other and hopefully drive the price up imo.

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  55. The gut was 12 days of eating and drinking as much as I could. I was a 30 inch waist at the start of the holiday. 😆

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