I won’t bore you with any more moaning so instead we’ll take a look at the visit of Crystal Palace tomorrow.
United missed the chance to notch up a second league double of the season last weekend when losing at Fulham. However the visit of the Eagles gives us a chance to do just that as Alan Pardew’s old club rock up on Tyneside.
When the two sides met shortly before Christmas it was Newcastle who blew Palace away winning by three clear goals at Selhurst Park. Palace have been much improved defensively though and we remain the only side to score more than two goals against them since Tony Pulis took over the task of trying to secure Premier League safety.
It’s at the other end where Pulis’ men are struggling having scored just seven league goal since the turn of the year. The problem for the Magpies however is that they aren’t faring much better and have found the back of the net just eight times in that same period.
Newcastle:
Loic Remy and Mathieu Debuchy will both be absent through injury, as will Davide Santon who is closing in on a return to action and may feature against Everton on Tuesday.
Hatem Ben Arfa is fit enough to make the squad although a space on the bench will be the most likely for him while Sammy Ameobi and Rob Elliot could also return after recent injury absences.
Crystal Palace: Strikers Marouane Chamakh (hamstring) and Dwight Gayle (ankle) are both missing for Tony Pulis who other wise has a full squad to choose from.
Previously…
As mentioned earlier, a 3-0 win at Selhurst Park means we are looking for a league double over Palace, which is something we haven’t managed in the Premier League since the 1994/1995 season.
At St James’ Park it is United who have been the stronger of the two sides winning 11, drawing three and losing two of the 16 meetings. The last win for Palace at SJP was in March 1998.
Head-to-head, home and away in all competitions, United are also stronger. A total of 30 matches have been played with Newcastle winning 19, Palace picking up seven victories with four draws making up the numbers.
Stats and facts…
Loic Remy misses his seventh match of the season. United have failed to score in or win any of the six he has missed to date.
Newcastle have failed to score in eight of their last 11 Premier League games and have scored just once in their last five fixtures at St James’ Park.
Palace have failed to score a goal from open play in their last four games.
Final thought…
Palace will be looking to build on the away point gained at Sunderland last week and will look to keep things tight. They’ll work hard, tackle hard and see if they can grab a chance that will inevitably fall their way at some point throughout the match. It’s a Tony Pulis side, you know what you’ll get.
So we’ll have to be patient if we can’t make an early breakthrough. We have an advantage in terms of quality so as long as we keep plugging away the chances will come. It’s just a matter of whether or not we can take them without our top scorer on the field.
Howay the lads!
Date: Saturday, 22nd March, 2014
Time: 3pm
Venue: St James’ Park
Troy – I am simply telling you why the stadium has never been and never will be further enhanced.
Any extra tv revenues will be hoovered up by fat bastid in repaying the clubs debt to him, long before any gets spent on ground improvements.
A new stadium is more feasible than improving the one we currently have.
It would be a hell of a lot easier to call it the S***** D***** Arena then too.
The land he is trying to sell, will never be used.
If you think otherwise, you are in la la land.
Sweet dreams.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Stuart – you say – “However it clearly restricts the future growth of the club.”
Really ❓
The cost of the development would take 30 years to break even.
I don’t doubt we could fill the extra 10k seats.
But even Freddy Shep recognised that it made no economic sense.
A new stadium was and still is the way to go.
But could you just imagine the **** storm that would kick up. ffs 👿
meh 👿 👿
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
BB – Do you think Man Utd thought like that when they increased Old Trafford? Match day income is a huge factor in today’s game.
But the fact is that if (and it’s a big if at this stage) we got in the CL, we’re winning trophies and attracting new supporters like Chelsea or Man City have done we would want to increase the capacity of the stadium. It would be negligent not to. Why do you think Man Utd continued to increase their capacity or Liverpool and Spurs are absolutely desperate to build new stadiums? Do you think they’re doing for the good of their Heath?
Stuart79(Quote)
Staurt79 agree with you totally. We may not need to expand the stadium in the Ashley era but if we sell the land the options lost forever. It might be something the council might change there mind on in years to come. It’s cheaper to increase a stand than it is a brand new stadium.
stem(Quote)
I believe Tottenham Hotspur and Liverpool are going thru this very same dilemma right now.
Everyone knows the answer is to build a new stadium.
In our case the answer is to make the East stand the same as the Milburn one. Increasing capacity to 70k+.
Not adding 10k to the Gallowgate.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
@bootsy
There’s only one person on here in la la land fella. You. 😉
Where you not around for the last saga regarding the proposal to build a new stadium?
Where do you propose? There is no where suitable.
It almost ended up in Gateshead near to where the Hilton is.
So if we don’t have a suitable site to locate it leaves one alternative doesn’t it?
The ground is in an ideal location already and 60k would suffice.
Of course if the club is successful then it pays to expand the stadium, even if it takes 20 yrs to repay itself.
Successful clubs make huge revenues. Spurs made £70m more than us by competing near the top of the league for several seasons.
Ashley won’t expand the stadium, but a future owner may.
That opportunity should never be lost.
As for your ridiculous proposal of knocking down the listed buildings at the back of the East Stand, then you really are in La La land if you ever thought there was a chance of that.
There’s no other location to move to, so the ONLY solution is to keep the opportunity to expand the stadium.
How do you know where we will be financially in 20 yrs time, long after Ashley has gone. ?
Troy Stavers(Quote)
howay lads gis a result remember yaar playin fo geordies 😛 😛 😛 😛
jack chapman(Quote)
Look at Man Utd before Fergie arrived. They had a very similar record to us bar 1 European Cup and Old Trafford had a capacity of 36,000. Gradually the more successful they got the more supporters they gathered and they increased the capacity of the ground. quite naturally.
If by your rationale Bootsy a new ground is the only way to go why didn’t Man Utd build a new one, why aren’t Barca building a new one or Real Madrid? They all increased the capacity of the current ground as it’s easier and far cheaper.
Arsenal spent circa £400m on increasing by just 20,000 seats so why don’t you think its reasonable for us to spend less than a quarter if that and increase our capacity by 10,000?
But the point is if Ashley sells the land that option will be lost forever! Surely that’s not a good position to be in. Is rather be able to do something but choose not to, rather than just not be able to do something – full stop!
Stuart79(Quote)
Well , looks like Benny will probably be let go come summer, things obviously not right there 🙁
http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-articles/newcastle-players-turned-ben-arfa-sunderland-cabayes-departure/
KIMTOON(Quote)
Is it actually feasible to build on that land, I thought there were major problems attached to building on it. Have to agree though, the option to use/build on it should not be lost for ever if it’s a possibility like. Ashley won’t own Toon for ever and who knows one day some mega rich and ambitious guy may want us and want to expand and that option should not be lost, indeed it could well prevent a future buying from buying us if that option does not exist.
KIMTOON(Quote)
latest gem from Pards 🙄
“We need to come up with more imagination than we showed against Fulham and some more cutting edge to our play.
“Most of our play was pretty good against Fulham but the last third unfortunately wasn’t good enough.
“The most important thing for us is creating more chances, no matter what Palace do.
“That has been our main focus this week and having a bit more movement in our play”.
Was he actually watching the same game I was 😕
KIMTOON(Quote)
Anyone look at Liverpool and think we were 15 points better than them two seasons ago and if we’d have invested as we should have done wondered where we would be now?
Stuart79(Quote)
Now then, now then, now then…
In years gone bye, season tickets at the toon were like rocking horse ****, you just couldn’t get one. Then the ground was developed letting in even more punters, splendid stuff, now we have executive boxes, cheaper seats for the plebs, a Junior magpies section, etc etc, basically Ashley is covering all age groups and in addition is tempting the punters with all kinds of binding season ticket offers, sign up for 5 years etc etc.
1 – The Junior Magpies group is growing steadily by all accounts, I’m curious as to how many seast are actually allocated in this “section”, could be approaching 7 – 8,000 ? – or perhaps 15-20% of the “available seats on match day”……. he has the kids hooked on the toon fix… lovely jubbly… plus they don’t sing horrid anti-Ashley songs ?
2 – He has closed the singing section, where the radgies hang out… not good for the radgies, good for Ashley though… lovely jubbly….
So, when your TV rights from Sky are increasing obsorbitantly every year, without too much effort from the club, what do you do ? Should you manage to reach the top 6 – 8 / Champions League (don’t hold your breath), what should you do ?
1 – spend say 150 million extending the Gallowgate End by perhaps 5 – 7000 ?
2 – leave the stadium as it is and increase the cost of the season tickets because you have a “captive audience” at the end of the day. ?
Answers on a postcard please… 😥 👿
Munich Mag(Quote)
I don’t know if the story is true or not who knows, I also don’t know if it’s financially feasible to build on it or not due to the foundation problems with the Metro station being underneath the land. The last thing I can remember the cost was going to be £300m to add 8k extra seats though I think that cost also included a hotel and possibly a casino so no idea how much it would cost just for the capacity to be increased or if it’s even feasible…it would be nice to keep the option though.
Stuart have to disagree about Old Trafford’s capacity when red nose took over, I was there in the mid 80’s a couple of years before Fergie took over when we got humped 5 nowt and there was 55k there, I don’t think the capacity reduced until after he became manager due to Hillsboro.
Barca had no problem expanding as they actually dug down to increase capacity rather than add on the top as they had the space around the pitch.
I don’t think it’s relevant anyway comparing about other stadiums being increased as they may not have had the same problems NUFC would face Just as it wasn’t possible for Arsenal to expand so they had to move, just as it wouldn’t be likey for say QPR to expand as their stand back right onto residential properties. Sometimes the only financially feasible option would be to move as the scum did and I think they built a brand new 48k stadium for £20m ish whereas it cost us almost twice that to add 16k seats so a new stadium can work out cheaper. Like I say circumstances vary so I’ve no idea what our “most feasible” option would be but selling the land reduces our options which I’d be very much against… unless building there was financially or structurally impossible 👿
richietoon(Quote)
Stuart…Ref Liverpool, yep 😥 but that’s what ambition does for you and before anyone screams we can’t compete financially with them I’m well aware of that so I’d counter with I just want us to be the best we can be within out “financial ability”…under Ashley we aren’t in terms of players or management 👿
richietoon(Quote)
Here it is again… 🙁
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/21/newcastle-hatem-ben-arfa-players-discipline
Munich Mag(Quote)
There is no problem building on top of the Metro station. The foundations need to be deeper and built around the lines. However, it is a reasonable option as FS was going to do it.
The £300m was the cost of the whole development which included the cost of the hotel, conference centre etc.
FS was going to use those private investors to finance the ground expansion therefore costing the club a minimal amount.
Those who repeatedly slag FS off need to realise he actually had ambition to build the club.
His biggest mistake was appointing **** managers.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
MM…Unfortunately nowt we didn’t know about him before he signed for us, guess we were just hoping he’d change 😕
richietoon(Quote)
Troy…I did say the £300m was for more than the new stand 😉 personally although St James’ metro looks great I alway thought that little leg of system was a bit of a waste of time and money. SO as chief architect I’d fill the fecker with concrete after removing all the NUFC paraphernalia and incorperating it into the “new Gallowgate end” 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Richietoon@94….
“There is no problem building on top of the Metro station. The foundations need to be deeper and built around the lines. However, it is a reasonable option as Richietoon was going to do it.
The £300m was the cost of the whole development which included the cost of the hotel, conference centre etc.
Richietoon was going to use those private investors to finance the ground expansion therefore costing the club a minimal amount.
Those who repeatedly slag Richietoon off need to realise he actually had ambition to build the club.
……..
Munich Mag(Quote)
MM@91, I posted a similar link @84 mate , it’ s not looking too good for Benny is it 🙁 He’ll be away come summer I’d imagine.
KIMTOON(Quote)
MM… 😯 😆 …tbf not everything I have been “going to do” in my life has been a “reasonable option” 😉
richietoon(Quote)
RT…the laird of Alicante 🙂
Gannin ti the toon any time soon ?
I’m back in a couple of weeks, the Stoke away weekend…. first time in over a year… Cannae wait 🙂
Munich Mag(Quote)
MM…No mate, won’t be back until Oct/Nov time I reckon. If you go to the Stoke game enjoy it….should be a thriller 🙄 you could meet up wi Batty, he lives down that way I think 😉
richietoon(Quote)
St James metro finished and commissioned – 1982
Gallowgate End developed – 2005
Maybe someone should send this to Ashley before he makes a big mistake 😳 😳 :-
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=458915
Munich Mag(Quote)
What delights will I see today.
Do we need four defenders. Repalce Mbiwa Play Santon as a right wing back. Push Sissoko into a central role. Play Ben Arfa wherever he wants to play. Just think if we start with Cisse and De Jong it will be to easy for Palace just to kick them, mark them and close them down. Let’s go for something different
Toby le Rhone(Quote)
Rich – I think you miss my point. Bootsy says it’s not worth the cost to expand by an extra 10,000 but the clubs like Man Utd, Barca and Real Madrid saw the sense in increasing capacity a little at a time. Am I missing something or have them clubs got it wrong and Bootsy has it right by saying we shouldn’t be bothering increasing the capacity if indeed we were ever in a position to do it?
Stuart79(Quote)
What s a seat worth £1000? a season, maybe more. So £10k seats is £10m per year. so £30year payback? not good enough. need to generate more than that hence hotel etc.
Premandup(Quote)
Prem – Are you saying it would cost £300m to increase the stadium to 62,000?
Stuart79(Quote)
Only reading the above posts.
Premandup(Quote)
Well we knew it would happen but for ITV to report Remy was in a London hotel with gunners officials about a move there in the summer won’t do a lot for club moral imo
icedog(Quote)
@ prem.
How can it not be more economical to build onto the gallowgate than building a new stadium with a similar capacity?
The stadium is in the best location in the country. No other stadium is as central to a city than ours. That in itself creates bigger crowds.
It is so accessible. For me, the only other option was on Nuns Moor but that was quashed many years ago.
It’s about competing with the rest and the bigger the stadium the more attractive the club to players.
It is so short sighted not to realise the importance of that land.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Sorry Troy. WTF are talking about. I merely poined out that £300m for an extra 10k seats means something like a 30yr payback. Which no-one would do. But since the £00m gets you a hotel etc it may be worth it.
At no point did I mention building a new stadium?
The numbers were from your own post at 92. Did I misunderstand?
Premandup(Quote)
@Prem
It is explained in my post further back that FS had incorporated many private sector buildings which would have financed the Gallowgate end, thereby costing the club a minimal amount.
It was well documented at the time.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Re the new stadium, that would cost £300m + but an expansion wouldn’t.
How did you come to the conclusion that an expansion would. ?
Troy Stavers(Quote)
On the developing the stadium issue…. Hasn’t Newcastle city a “Conference Centre” as such ? If not, that has really surprised me. All medium size city’s in Germany have these where they hold Trade Fairs, conferences etc etc. Surely there must be a market and the will between Ashley and the city to develop a joint project on this land ? There again, maybe neither of them give a flying flock, because as sure Troy says, the plot is a prime location, it amazes me that the political will isn’t there, from neither the city nor Ashley.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Troy@109, not having lived on the Tyne for yonks, my memory fails me. Maybe you can enlighten me / us…
If Fat Boy Slim had went so far to get so many partuies involved, and have the financing in place etc etc etc, why then didn’t the project go ahead ? Had it something to do with the UK governments love-in with casino developers, which then seemed to die a death.
Unfortunately I cannot recall the reason why things didn’t go ahead, although I can recall the positive cafuffle at the time, and found it personally a great idea. A nice spanking new Gallowgate End with a concourse to a top notch hotel / casino whatever…
Munich Mag(Quote)
I think you need to readjust your calculations as well.
£1000 per seat? Where did you get those figures from? Arsenal?
My seat is worth £300
And my sons seat £100
I don’t believe the stand would be paid back decades.
That’s not the point though. The more successful you are, the bigger the demand.
This is an entertainment business. A good owner would see the benefits of competing at the highest level and therefore demand would grow.
Seat prices would increase though in this region, people can’t afford £1k a season for a seat.
It’s about the profile of the club. The bigger the better the stadia, the more marketable you become.
TV revenue is exploding and could finance such a build in the future and therefore ticket prices would be irrelevant.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@MM
The toon don’t have a conference centre. FS tried to incorporate one in the Gallowgate proposals but as you say, the Casino restrictions were imposed and hence the idea fell thru.
Gateshead are to build a conference centre adjoining the Sage music hall but again, that is still not fully funded.
The idea that at some stage we will move to another site is firstly, nigh on impossible at least within the city and second, how could we finance £300+ for a new stadium if some are saying we can’t afford a third of that to build a new tier. 😯
We have a great stadium and location. It justs needs expanding.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I may be barking up the wrong tree here like, but does the club need to encroach over the street in front of Shearers Bar to redevelop the Gallowgate End ? Couldn’t the club still extend, but keeping everything well away from the Metro Station, and with it the need for deep pile foundations etc etc ?
One of the photos on this link which I posted earlier today in fact shows this, from what I can see the Strawberry in fact as demarcation line remains untouched..remains untouched. Of course it is a doctored up photo, but it doesn’t look too out of sorts…
Ashley could develop the Gallowgate End with option for further expansion to a casino / conference centre / hotel when the new owner of the Strawberry Plot gets his **** together and comes up with a sensible development on a piece of prime land. Easy really… I can’t believe that a “Gallowgate Extension” would cost millions of euros to be honest, at the same time if you hoy in a hotel, casino etc, then naturally the cost for the developement explodes. That’s the way I would go if I was the owner….
Munich Mag(Quote)
Troy, did you check my link out bud ?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=458915
Munich Mag(Quote)
Just watching BT sport and its just flashed up a stat
Since Wenger joined Arsenal in 1996 their net spend is £58m compared with Chelsea £677m 😯 😯
That has to prove to Ashley that if you get the right people in the positions in the – from Chairmen, DoFs, managers and coaches – then a club can be successful without having to throw 100s of millions at it.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Ice@106 this what you are on about?
http://www.itv.com/sport/football/article/2014-03-22/transfer-rumours-remy-spotted-with-arsenal-officials-chelsea-and-liverpool-eye-barca-rookie-man-city-want-brazilian/
KIMTOON(Quote)
Who knows where we might be in a decade. We might have an Arab owner who wants to finance a new stand. If the land is sold then that option is gone. Ashley is selling the family jewels, hence my boycott and scrapping of my season ticket until he leaves.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Sharpy , that’s an amazing difference in expenditure @117 😯 , Considering both teams regularly make top 4 and CL qualification you would have to say the Arsenal board get more bang for their buck than Roman does.
Yes it certainly proves that the right people in the right positions can achieve just as much with less expenditure . Will Ashley consider this fact , will he hell. 👿
KIMTOON(Quote)
@MM
Worth printing cos some people just can’t be bothered to view facts if it means pressing a button. They would rather speak with ignorance.
Newcastle plot £300m ground plan
St James’ Park
Plans would see the capacity of St James’ Park rise from 52,000
Newcastle United have unveiled plans for a £300m development of St James’ Park that will take the capacity at the stadium to at least 60,000.
The plans include a major conference centre, hotels and luxury apartments that the club are hoping will lead to the creation of 1,500 jobs.
“What we are proposing is something not just for the football club,” said chairman Freddy Shepherd.
“But it is for the whole city and the people of Newcastle.”
The Number 1 St James’ Park project, as it has been described by the club, will be funded completely independently of the football club’s revenues.
Glenn Roeder’s team are 11th in the Premiership but the plans will not affect any cash set aside for transfers this summer.
An application has yet to be submitted to planning chiefs and the project will take the form of a three-phase programme.
The first development stage would see a 140-bedroom hotel complex build on the site of the former Magpies Supporters’ Club with a second hotel also in the blueprint.
Phase two will involve superior apartments behind the Leazes End of the stadium while the scheme will be completed by a purpose-built conference centre.
Development within St James’ itself would take place at the Gallowgate End.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy @119, yep that was my point @85 too.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Isn’t Ashley spending money on new training facilities?
I don’t know the thinking behind the possible sale of this land, but a Billionaire business would know that their is more money in investment and development than selling the land off for a lump sum profit.
If he plans to sell the club one day, he’d get more money selling it with this land rather than selling it now just to ‘**** us off’.
So even if he couldn’t develop the stadium, he’d develop the land and either keep a City plot for himself or sell it as part of the sale of the club.
I just really struggle to believe that a multi billionaire can find nothing else better to do with his time than to think of ways to upset a bunch of Geordies?!
Sharpy17(Quote)
I recall standing in a 36k stadium with no roof on the gallowgate or leazes and dreamt of having a decent stadium. It was always scoffed at cos they said it would cost too much.
It’s about speculating to accumulate.
I see Bootsy has disappeared after talking guff.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
How will player moral be effected by the story Remy has been meeting Arsenal officials I wonder.
KIMTOON(Quote)
@Kim
I don’t think they’ll be surprised in the least tbh.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
KIM yes that was the report,I think it give the players a could not care less attitude imo
icedog(Quote)
Ive always said – Actions have consequence.
The Mob have threatened “Boycoutts” for years, campaigning against every little thing, telling people not to buy tickets, run Ashley out of town etc etc etc.
Well – to the Mob – once more you have your consequence, like relegation last time. Who on earth would invest say 200mn for 10000 seats when the Mob is so unpredictable?
I say to the Mob – look in the mirror before you cast blame – for ye are the bringer of your own damnation.
Ashley is not the antichrist – he is a normal man reacting normally to poorly thought out actions.
The sale of the land will have little effect of the sell on value of the club – so for him it makes sense and with people abandoning season tickets – its the right thing to do.
Stardust(Quote)
@Stardust
You’re a dung beetle trying to push the dung ball to the top of the sand dune but everytime you get near the top, your little legs give up and the dung ball rolls over your head and to the bottom.
You are forever pushing dung balls and achieving nothing. 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Stuart… I didn’t miss your point, I just pointed out the error in the capacity which I only knew was wrong due to attending the match with 55k there 😉
I agree with you about extending and not selling the land but I also pointed out that sometimes it makes more financial sense(and sometimes out of necessity) to build a new stadium as in sunderland building a new stadium for almost half of what it cost NUFC to add 16k thousand seats.
richietoon(Quote)
Troy@124 Happy days though 😉
richietoon(Quote)
@Richie
There is nowhere suitable to build though and nowhere better than the current location. Build a new stadium would be nonsensical in my opinion having seen the last saga trying to build on Nuns Moor.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Arsenal in for a stuffing me thinks, 16 minutes gone 3 nowt down, down to 10 men … and the wrong player sent off 😆
richietoon(Quote)
@Richie
I had a pint with Stardust last night and he means every word he’s wrote. Believe me. He’s a horrible little cretin and weasel. Oh and dung beetle! 🙄 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy… I know, I was talking more about why other clubs had done it from when I was responding to a comment earlier 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Troy…Stardy must have some redeeming features if you still drink with him 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Richietoon@136, maybe they both need mates ? 😆 😆 😆
It must be fun when they both enter a pub at the same time waiting to see who is the slowest to the bar ? 😆 😆
Munich Mag(Quote)
MM… 😆 I reckon Stardy’s the slowest, he’s Pro Ashley so won’t like spending **** all 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Whereas it’s a well known fact that the buildings behind the East Stand are listed, and consequently hinder the development of the East Stand, surely it could be possible to develop the Strawberry corner to realise 2 / 3000 new seats ?. Check the photo-montage out on this link….
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=458915
I’m curious what the city of Newcastle have to say about this…perhaps the buildings at the Strwaberry Corner are listed too ?
Munich Mag(Quote)
We have no waiting list for season tickets anymore after the johnny come latelys ****** off. We’ll have less after a few season of mediocrity and don’t fill the ground every game as it is. So why the hell are people pissing their pants about an expansion that wasn’t going to happen not happening? To build on that plot of land would cost fortunes. It’s on top of the Metro FFS
toonsy(Quote)