After much gnashing of teeth and shaking of heads the dust is slowly starting to settle after the transfer windows closure.
That is not to say that the anger and resentment is still not bubbling away amongst fans as they try and fathom what transpired on deadline day. There is no doubt that there were multiple parties involved with the dealings that went down but one man seems to be taking the brunt of the blame and that man is Alan Pardew. How much say he had in the Ben Arfa & Mbiwa deals is anybody’s guess but that seems not to matter as the heat builds on our silver haired supremo. Defensively we have been a shambles and to loan out and not replace a defender is fraught with trouble and I can’t help but feel that we will suffer the consequences of this gamble. The mountain for Pardew to climb to win back support from the fans almost seems insurmountable when you couple this with the departure of Ben Arfa. In the past Pardew has not been fully supported in the market place by the board/regime and has had to make do with what he has been given. Last season was particularly bad when you consider what he had to work with. However this season, he has seen new players come through the door and it could be said that he is building a squad with the players that he wants. To me this is going to put added pressure on Pardew and the board/regime will want to see some results from the investment made. We fans will also want to see some improvement from a footballing perspective but to date it looks like we are still a work in progress (to put it very nicely). No one is expecting the new players to hit the ground running and time will be given for them to customize themselves with the pace of the premier league. I guess the big question is how much patience will the fans and the regime allow before Pardew’s position as manager becomes untenable . There is popular belief amongst a lot of fans that Pardew is safe no matter what happens. This could be true and only time will tell.
For the record, I don’t hate or dislike Alan Pardew and if we were playing some good football and moving in the right direction I would be happy for him to stay. Personally I think he has run his race and has nothing more to give to the team. I am not knocking his commitment and his work ethic as I think he tries as hard as possible. I just don’t think he has any tricks left up his sleeve and his time as Newcastle Manager has run it’s course.
What are your thoughts?
Revised version when sober.
I’ve always likened NUFC to the England national side.
We always expect England to do well each tournament, just as we do the Toon each season.
They never do, at least in recent history, but for some reason, all too often, the manager often gets the blame and is ridiculed as a buffoon by the press and the public.
Basically, the England and Toon jobs are poisoned chalices for the manager.
The problem lies with the huge expectations from both sets of fans, combined with the inability to build a team to reach those expectations.
Whether it be the lack of financial resources provided to the Toon manager or the lack of available English talent for the National coach.
Both have had success in the past, but not since the 1960’s have they won a trophy and only intermittently skirmished with success, only to fall at the last hurdle. All the while, the fans flock to Wembley & SJP in huge numbers with great expectation and hope.
Both sets of fans are renowned worldwide for their fanatical support and loyalty but conversely, their respective teams have the same level of reputation as being underachievers.
But why does the blame often get directed at the manager when he has little talent at his disposal.
Of course, both sets of fans build up their own players, beyond their capabilities and talk incessantly of winning trophies. That’s normal in football but the reality is, it’s delusional and it makes no sense.
The manager of the Toon has a limited budget and can’t compete with the big guns of the Premier League, similarly, the England manager only has a small pool of talent and both for their respective reasons, can’t go and put Messi, Suarez or Bale in their teams.
I hate the **** regarding Pardew not being good enough to manage us or Hodgson having failed dramatically in the World Cup.
It’s not that at all, for me, I believe the frustrations firmly stop at the door of Ashley regarding the Toon and the FA for the National deficiencies.
Until Ashley loosens the purse strings and spends the profits on building a worthy squad and the FA improve the whole training & direction of English football in line with other European national sides then the teams will always fall short of the fans expectations and the managers, wrongly in my opinion, will get the blame.
To blame the current manager of both these teams is misdirected ignorance and the more it goes on, the longer the real problem will be ignored!
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Ice you could well be on to something mate. We have a history of risky signings because they are the cheap options…time will tell on De Jong but it will serve us right if there is summit wrong with him!
Newkie(Quote)
Troy, I thought your first version was better. 🙂
Stuart79(Quote)
@Troy. we saw the first one mate 🙄 talk about repetitive… are you gonna repost it on every article.. FTSOTB 😛
I bet he’s got it printed off with everyone’s comments attached 😆
mark(Quote)
misdirected ignorance, that’s a good one Troy, I’ll remember that next time Pards sends us out with yet the same set piece again.
kIMTOON(Quote)
Mark, it’s framed on his wall next to the picture of Les 😉
kIMTOON(Quote)
@Kim,
I bet he’s read it over 10times today.. 😆
i bet he’s showed his lass 😆
mark(Quote)
Wow! 😯
I write a masterpiece and I got nothing but ridicule 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy your a wasted talent you should start to pen a few threads
Big Dave(Quote)
Dave
Aussie would get jealous even more It’s such a shame, he should just accept that I’m more knowledgeable about football and make his articles look like a comic strip. 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Troy @310
I agree with that mate 😉
mark(Quote)
All I can see is a long hard slog of a season.. 🙁
DJG(Quote)
Troy sorry to burst your bubble but having more footie Knowledge than Aussieisn’t really that hard, all he is is just a Jabba positive PR man
Big Dave(Quote)
Big Dave
Careful fella. You know what his temper is like. He explodes into hissy fits that are recorded on the Richter scale. 😆
Troy Stavers(Quote)
***! I can’t wait for the full publication of The Best of Troy Stavers.
It’ll be the one article rewritten for 200 different states of mind.
brisvegas(Quote)
At least it wasn’t 25 pages long…..thankfully!
Mr September(Quote)
I see the back stabbers were out in force last night… particularly with Big Dave… he obviously posted those comments without Icedog ok’ing them.. actually I retract that comment. ? Its good to see he has an opinion that simply doesn’t agree with Ice 😆 😛
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Bris@283…Hopefully Toonsy will publish it, I like reading owt like that. Did Toonsy get any volunteers to help him run this place who could put it up?
I recommend a book called Black and White Daft, it’s a bit more my era put is full of anecdotes from Newcastle matches from ’79 until ’84, it’s a canny read and might be a bit of an eye opener for those from the Premier League era. They also have a fanzine now (called the same) which will have some games from earlier in the 70’s.
richietoon(Quote)
@313 Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooow! 😛
mark(Quote)
*****!!! 😛
richietoon(Quote)
Big *****! 😛 😯
mark(Quote)
tight *****…when it comes to getting the round in of course 😯 😆
richietoon(Quote)
went a bit too far there Richie 😛 had to spoil it 😆
mark(Quote)
why? do you usually get the round in on time then? 😉
You should have seen what I was going to put originally 😆
richietoon(Quote)
😆 some of the others will try and get you banned now lol
miserable *******. 🙄 lasses in an STD clinic 😆
mark(Quote)
😆 😆 whey must dash, bbq to set up.
richietoon(Quote)
Wow! Have you’s all set your alarms early just to catch up with each other. 😯
FTSOTB 😛
Begas
Sorry fella, my publication doesn’t contain formations and tactics, so this book will be no good for you. 😆
Aussie
Whatever Ice & Big Dave were saying, I agree with them also. 😆
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Alan Pardew July 24th
“We have pitched in and signed players that we think give us a chance to push for Champions League,”
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
its obviously Mikes fault Alan said this…
mark(Quote)
Pardew said: “We’ll be able to change our system easily this year, which is something you need to be able to do. You can’t compete against the top teams with one simple system. (one up front) 😛
“You’ve got to change and try to throw equations at them that they’re not expecting – we’ve got the players to do that. (one up front) 😛
“Options are so important in a long, long, season (one up front) 😛
mark(Quote)
Classic psychology from Dr Pards. 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Mark
It’s simple psychology. You know you have nowt up your sleeve so you try and convince you’re opponent you have rabbits, doves and allsorts up there.
The opposition over prepare for the box of tricks. Dr Pards has them all flumixed as he perseveres with his only option. One up front. 😛
Mind, it never works. We still get beat. 🙄
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Has everyone read my post aboutbEngland and the Toon above. Well worth a read. Just in case anyone missed it. 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I was thinking while drinking my sangria last night. Clearly Pardew has no say over the players brought in so that must mitigate his circumstances when supporters considering firing him. He wanted Townsend, Shelvey and Lennon but didn’t get any if them. People might question his talent spotting but when a manager doesn’t get even one player he wanted how can he be responsible as it’s not his team? The three I mentioned are only the three we heard about, there could be many more.
Although don’t get me wrong, if Ashley all of a sudden gets ambition and decides he will start paying his manager the PL going rate instead of £500k a year then i’d sack Pardew and bring in a better manager. But don’t hold your breath.
Stuart79(Quote)
@Troy. that puts Pards firmly in the clueless crew.
What England/ Newcastle post?? must of missed it, could you repost it please.. 😛
mark(Quote)
@Stuart79
how do you know he was after the players you mentioned?
he did stop the Abeid sale going through…
mark(Quote)
Mark – Them players were linked very early and by respected local Jouno’s like Caulkin, Edwards and Douglas. They all made it pretty clear them players were on Pardews list.
Also I think its more likely Abeid stayed because the Greek side couldn’t come up with the money we wanted.
Stuart79(Quote)
Ah. Paper talk 🙄 by banned media. 😛 I thought u didnt advocate speculative talk
Pardew was actually quoted he stopped the sale, perhaps there were more than one club in for him, after-all he had a cracking season..
mark(Quote)
@Stu you say he clearly has no say yet the bloke is allowed to crayon a list together? whats the point of him having a list if he can’t get who he wants? surely by now he knows the score on signings, hence there was no list…
mark(Quote)
Well, if a journalist says so then it must be true. It’s not as if the newspapers would lie to us.
brisvegas(Quote)
Richie, I am helping Toonsy and the blog out… I will try and knock a few articles out when I can. I am keeping the ban hammer up my sleeve for the time being. Maybe I might let Troys bro back on, it might mean we see less of Troy 🙂
Vegas let me know if you want me to email you, if you send it back to me, I will put it up for you. 😉
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Pardew would have absolutely had a list, and I believe every player we signed bar Chucky was on it.
I reckon Cabella and De Jong would have been high on the list. I reckon it would have been a case of ‘Shelvey first, Colback second’.
Unfortunately I reckon Rivière and Perez would have been well down the list – Remy top, then Gomis, Lacazette and Lassoga.
Some players on the list won’t be available and some will get better offers – Pardew knows that he won’t get everyone he wants, in fact he probably knows that if he gets 1 or 2 of his preferred options then its a good window. I think Cabella and De Jong would have been his preferred choices, so actually it makes it a good window for him. A top CF would have made it an excellent window.
Sharpy17(Quote)
AMF I enjoy your threads,some have a nack of pleasing others some have a nack of being a pain in the *** at times,that’s life 😀
icedog(Quote)
Aussie
You’ll see none of me if he comes back on. 😆
It’s your only chance. 😆
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Wot No Football 👿
Premandup(Quote)
ok, oz, email me.
brisvegas(Quote)
lol there is no-way Aussie will let B&B back on if he is to lose Troy in the process.
I bet the chuckle brothers really annoy each other but where would they be without one another? 😆
mark(Quote)
Will do Vegas, will be late tomorrow at this stage. . Got a bit on atm..
Ice, I try and write em to spark debate mate 😉
Troy… Don’t tempt me mate! 😆
Mark, **** off! 😛
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Sharpy
Pardew has made it clear on numerous occasions he is a coach and not a manager. He informs Ashley what positions he needs strengthening and Graham Carr identifies the players. Pards will have an input to a degree but only on the players identified by Carr.
It’s then down to Charnley to broker a deal. If it falls through then they go to the next on Carrs list.
That is why I have patience with Pardew. He is a coach not an old style manager such as Souness or Dalglish who squandered fortunes.
It’s well understood what the arrangement is, so why are you making out that Pards is identifying the players?
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy please provide one of the supposed multiple quotes where Pardz had said he is just a coach and not a manager. Thanks..
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
wow troy uve changed your tune 😛 one minute it is Pardews fault the next it isnt 😆
Troy Stavers
September 2, 2011 at 11:45
I can’t understand how people say they don’t blame him (pardew). All he talks about are transfers and how we are working to buy our targets.
He either is as much to blame as the regime or if not, then he needs to remove himself from the firing line and let Lambias explain about transfers.
You can’t have it both ways. Strange how peope make excuses for others.:-/ 😛
__________________
toonsy
September 2, 2011 at 11:50
I don’t blame Pardew one bit. To apportion blame to him is folly as it immediately disregards all of the other transfer windows that have gone tge same way under this ownership under different managers.
I could understand it if he walked and a small part of me would like him to stick it to the fatman. However, who would replace him? Would anyone of note come and work here given the way managers get ridden roughshod over?
There’s always Joe Kinnear I guess. Woo hoo hoo hoo.
For that reason Pardew needs to stay. He’s doing a decent job under what are proving to be difficult circumstances and he needs to stay. The other possibilities just don’t bear thinking about.
Never understood the angst about him talking either. Keegan did it when he spoke about James Milner, World Class signings etc yet people laud him when in reality what is happening with Pardew is almost identical yet he gets criticised for it. Double standards and hypocrisy.
Read the form book people.
________________
Troy Stavers
September 2, 2011 at 11:58
@toonsy
Disagree with you.
If you are referring to someone other than me then fair enough but myself, dimpleboy and Craig have been saying all morning that he needs to remove himself from transfer speculation as soon as possible and certainly in the future .
If not, then he deserves every bit of flak thrown at him. If he can’t see the false promises being spewed out by the board then he is an idiot.
If he is a coach, which we all believe he does, then he should stick to that and only answer questions in relation to tactics and positions that need strengthening.
The transfer talk should only be answered by Lambias.
He either distances himself or he takes the flak .
I certainly don’t want him to walk and I’ve not once heard anyone asking for that.
Troy Stavers
September 2, 2011 at 12:24
@toonsy
If you had followed our posts throughout this morning, the general gist was to suggest from this moment on, Pardew must now realise the situation. I will forgive him If he has the balls to say, I’m the coach and I deal with playing tactics and identify areas of our team that need strengthening.
I then leave any transfers to Lambias and Carr and they will advise the press of such dealings.
I’m criticise him at this moment for past incidents as a blind man on a galloping horse, even Thad and Toonpipes could have seen what was coming .
As I’ve emphasised, I will finally make my mind up whether Pards is a true Patsy or not by his next interview.
No one has suggested he walks as you intimated.
mark(Quote)
Troy – as Aussie asks, please provide such quotes. Because actually, I’ve heard Pardew say the exact opposite!, particularly when JFK was in place and also this summer, when Pardew stated he was in regular contact with Charnley – surely that would be Carr and Charnley based on your theory.
Pardew tells Carr and his team what he’s after, they go out and scout them. They then return to Pardew with possibles and they draw up a shortlist. Pardew and Carr then meet with Ashley and Charnley to discuss how much money is available – which would refine the shortlist, then Charnley goes after them in order of priority and preference.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Aussie
I’ve heard him explain his role on a number of occasions, on TV & radio.
He answered to both Llambias and Kinnear and now Charnley. He stated he sits round the table with Mike, Derek (Joe or Lee) and he would identify which positions need strengthening.
Graham Carr would draw up a hit list and the DoF brokered the deal.
I haven’t got time to trawl the net but I know what I heard from Pards own mouth.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Thanks Sharpy. You’ve just concurred with me. That’s exactly what I’ve said. Pards doesn’t identify the players but highlights the positions that need strengthening.
Carr identifies the players and then comes back to Pards.
So how is Pardew to blame for choosing the players Aussie?
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Mark
My views haven’t changed. I thankyou for that. Consistent since 2011. 😉
The big problem with Pards, when he first arrived, he talked as if he was the manager.
His stance changed shortly after and he made it clear he had no say in them.
He’s maintained that stance since.
I thankyou for clarifying that. ;-).
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Wow. The Clueless Crew are stunned. 😯 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy – what you heard on TV was Pardew saying that JFK wasn’t going to interfere on the training ground, and that he was solely responsible for the coaching side of things – nobody else. But the player recruitment side of things is absolutely a team effort – that Pardew has the smallest but probably most important part in.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Troy – then you have misread what I wrote.
Yes Pardew identifies the positions that need strengthening and Carr goes and does the scouting. But Carr reports back to PARDEW with the possibles, then he reviews them and either yes I’d take him, or no he looks *****. Once he’s refined the shortlist, they take it to the money men. Then the list gets refined again based on money available.
But every player that Charnley goes after is on a hitlist ratified by Pardew.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy
So Pardew has the smallest part but the most important. So as you suggest and I agree with, Carr comes back with a hit list.
What is so important about Pardews bit? He says I like him but don’t like him?
The facts are, Carr doesn’t comeback with a dozen players for each position therefore, as per normal with Toon negotiations, we rarely get our number one choice anyway. So we end up with 2nd 3rd or 4th or none at all.
So explain why you don’t agree with me that Pards is a coach and not an old style manager.
The likes of Dalglish and Souness would identify their own targets mainly and their reputations survived or died on it.
Pards has a totally different role to the likes of those managers.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I blame GC for MYM, Gouffran, Amalfitano, Marveaux, Riviere signings, some of them on big time wages that they would never dream about at another club. We made steps back with that, MYM wasnt better than Perch *** CB, Gouffran not better than Routledge. And Riviere aint better than Leon Best.
Cholo A. Sall(Quote)
And more importantly for MYM, he wasnt the type of CB needed as we needed an improvement from Willo, a tall Quick CB ala Shawcross
Cholo A. Sall(Quote)
Use Sammy Ameobi as second striker, he’d useful there!
Cholo A. Sall(Quote)
Sharpy
The vast majority of our transfers involve some clause, injury speculation hanging over their heads and often at rock bottom prices.
It’s like me going Xmas shopping for young Chip Stavers and buying second hand toys from the charity shop and asking him to choose the best one, yet knowing he would select a brand new one if he had his own choice.
He’s a coach and not a manager and has to feed off scraps from Ashley.
You can disagree all you want but they are the facts and I’m right. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
What about Dave Watson as new Coach??
Cholo A. Sall(Quote)
Troy – I’m fairly certain that the role of a football manager has changed over the years. The comment I disagree with was Stus:
“Clearly Pardew has no say over the players brought in”.
Cholo – then you also have to attribute some of the blame to Pardew and the Chairman or DoF that brought them in mate.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Troy – then lets look at your facts mate. Lets look at the second hand scraps that Pardew has been tossed:
Debuchy – now at Arsenal
MYM – now at Roma
Cabaye – now at PSG
Ba – left for Chelsea
Remind me how many players in our squad are international players?.
Granted we haven’t spent big on a single player or net spend in a single window – but alot of the players brought in have either been internationals or have won things with the clubs we’ve got them from.
Pardew is not responsible for the clauses in contracts, you can certainly have that one. Those responsible for the clauses want a good hiding to be honest.
But you are set in your stance that Pardew is a coach – from what I see that’s the worst defence you can use for the bloke!. The footy we play is gash!. From defence to attack we are disorganized!. Set plays both for and against are awful!.
But it’s ok coz he hits targets 🙄
Sharpy17(Quote)
Troy, don’t bother trying to find those quotes because they don’t exist. A man with an ego as big as Pardew is never going to refer to himself as a coach. You probably said it and are getting confused, it sounds more plausible! 😆
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
How naive can some people be? Look at the form book, the history, the farce that is the running off this club. I’ll tell you all something; Every major **** up and complete balls up this club has made, the local press have reported it before it happened so the fact some on here treat they local media like a set of ****** makes you look ridiculous and rose tinted beyond belief!
Face the facts – they’ve been in the press enough…
Stuart79(Quote)
Sharpy
Wow. Over 3 yrs in charge and you bring up 4 players that have gone onto, allegedly, better things, albeit MYM is on loan because he didn’t aspire to his £8m price tag.
Sharpy, are you really going to justify your position with that poor effort. ?
I’m assuming that you haven’t named anyone else because the rest are scraps? That being the case, there’s too many for me to mention.
I’ll be fair, I don’t believe all the players who have been given to Pardew to coach have been scraps. But, it’s closer to your tally than you might imagine.
The entire point is lost on you, based on your response.
Let’s agree on one thing. A manager in the likes of Souness, Dalglish and currently Wenger is a million miles away from a manager like Pardew.
That’s why I prefer to call him a coach. His involvement in buying players is minimal which you’ve already expressed.
The conclusion surely must be, my original statement, was a fair assessment of Pardew’s role, whether you call him a manager or coach is a personal interpretation.
He has very little input into which players arrive at the club and his main role is that of tactics, team building and selection.
Whether you think his skills in those areas are poor, again, is subjective.
You say he hasn’t been fed scraps yet fail to mention more than 4 players in 3 yrs that have allegedly progressed.
No wonder his tactics and team selection are questioned by you. You never have grasped that the pool of players he has at his disposal are limited in quality and he has little say to try and improve things.
That my friend is where I rest my case. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Troy,
Surely you can accept that the FOOL is a poor excuse for a coach?
TonyGreenSupreme(Quote)
I think what Troy is trying to say Aussie, is that you should count your lucky stars Alan is still here. Without him we would be in league one. It’s really that simple mate. Where would you rather newcastle be ? League one or the premiership ? If we sack Pardew we go back ten years.
terry(Quote)
Alan and Mike are the heart and soul of our team Aussie.
I’m off now.
terry(Quote)
@TGS
I’ve told you repeatedly what I think of Pards.
An average Premier league manager who has little to work with.
He’s no worse or better than most in this league and has strengths and weaknesses, just like his contemporaries.
I’ve seen you and others name managers that you would like, yet not long after they’ve been sacked from their respective clubs.
He’s got an impossible task this season and is destined to fall short of our expectations.
You may choose to blame Pardew. I choose to blame Ashley. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Troy.
Pardew hasnt changed since his craic in 2011. Still refers to players we’re hoping for. He said 2 weeks ago he wanted another striker and a defender but he was content with who we had brought in. He also mentioned he stopped Abied leaving. So he hasnt really distanced himself from transfer talk which you lambasted him for in 2011. We knew then he wasnt in charge of transfers, he was just the coach.. so whats changed? he was fed scraps then and still is but you seem to defend him now.
mark(Quote)
@Sharpy. I doubt Pardew has any say on who we buy. IMO Carr finds the cheap gems in positions Pardew has selected. Mike pays and Pardew plays. Or in Anitas case, didnt play or rate him much, Pards didnt fancy him at all when he first arrived.
Didnt Pardew and Carr (supposedly) fall out over Anita..
mark(Quote)
Graham Carr: “Aye, I’ve been doing the job for fourteen years you know. I was at Tottenham for five years, chief scout at Manchester City for seven, and I’ve been mostly in Europe as well, so I’ve been been “on the job” for quite a long time, Adrian. So it’s just those players that came along, Cheick Tiote was available at the right price, at the right time. Hatem Ben Arfa had played in the national side for France, we got him on loan, that was during Christmas time. Then we’ve had Cabaye and Cisse come in, and Sylvain Marveaux who hasn’t played yet. Those are the players I was involved with.”
so maybe Pardew or Llambias had a hand in signing the likes of Gosling, obertan?? basically all the ***** ones.. 😆
mark(Quote)