But with youth comes inexperience. Our apparent policy of buying youth is obviously admirable but with it comes the inherent risks and problems of progression. As we have seen the EPL is different and not all players adapt. Also surely with a policy of youth comes a responsibility to encourage the progression of that youth. Not that all youngsters are going to progress to full team status, but it would be wrong to buy them and then slam the door in their faces by buying experienced places and blocking that progression.
There has always been a dilemma, do you buy a finished product for this season, or potential. Getting the balance right is a problem. One way is to have plenty of choice and competition. As we do in midfield. Assuming that we play 4-2-3-1 as has been indicated by the match at Gateshead, then when we look at the two midfielders we have 4 to choose from. Gini, Anita, Sissoko & Colback. That’s excluding Tiote & Abeid. And actually in this area all our choices have experience most of them in the Prem. The only youth player is Bigirimana. He even got a run out a Right Back the other day. Here the problem is finding the right combination of players.
In other areas we do not have that problem. With Strikers we only have Perez & Armstrong coming through and out wide only Aarons. In these areas we have some experience, but bringing in a new signing would not hamper the development of youth, for there is insufficient depth. These players will get game time simply because of minor cups and injuries.
For me the real dilemma is in defense. Janmaat is our only rightback, whilst we have 3 left backs none of them fully fledged. So I would expect to see someone come in at least at RB to give competition.
The Centreback pairing is even more problematic. We have three CBs in the last year of their contracts that as far as I can see no fans want them renewing. However we only have 3 kids waiting to move up. None of them with EPL experience. Dummett a full back played there last season so he could be counted as a fourth. But where do we go from here. Does Steve believe that any are ready to be a first choice centreback this season. If so does he play them alongside one of the old stagers. I’m sure Steve would love to have 2 top flight experienced CBs to draw on. But our policy of buying Foreign does not mean they will hit the ground running. In my opinion the purchase of an experienced EPL CB such as Steven Caulker would help resolve the problem. But we find ourselves with 6 CBs already. No club is going to pay 7 or 8. One scenario is that if Steve thinks that there are two ready he may decide to start with them and keep say Colo on the bench. He would be a brave man to take that option, but he is the man on the spot assessing the players he has and trying to decide their future and what is best for the Team in both the short and long term. Whatever his decision I think I will back him to see what happens.
So the good news is that we have a very young squad certainly as contracts run down on the older players. But as this article tries to point out it is inexperienced in EPL terms and has problems in the progression of the academy players coming through. Exciting times.
nothing wrong with haveing a young squad as long as ya hang onto the gems and dint cash in at the 1st bid 😉
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Good article.
One flaw with our transfer policy is we only buy younger players. That was a problem last year as we lacked leadership.
Stuart79(Quote)
<<<<<<<<<< would rather have a young squad than a squad full of old dudes
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
<<<<<<<<<<<<< blames the lack of leadership on our long haired useless yeti of a captain meself
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Prem – cracking article mate and you highlight a real problem IMO. My hope when we signed nobody in Jan & stuck with JC was that we were going to start introducing younger players into the first team. With our defensive problems I thought we may say someone like Satka brought in, maybe Abied or Kemen brought into midfield with Tiote out and perhaps Armstrong getting more game time with Cisse suspended. I’m not suggesting I expected to win week in week out or pick up loads of points – but let’s face it, the senior players didn’t either.
Instead what we saw was players being played out of position. Playing the likes of Raylor & Jonas, knowing their contracts weren’t going to be renewed – and even seeing the likes of Sammy loose his place in the side. There was no sign of looking at the squad to build for future.
Of course in the end it was just absolutely desperation to survive. But in Jan when decisions were being made, we only needed around 4-5 wins and then was the time to experiment.
Sharpy17(Quote)
TDS – let me put it another way. Sir Les has openly said that they have no received a bid from NUFC for Charlie Austin. You can not negotiate a deal without a bid – it’s that simple. Now, it may be a case that Charnley has rang QPR and asked how much for Austin £15m … would you take £12m. That is bartering because an offer has not been made – Sir Les confirms this. You can only negotiate a tangible offer – we have not made one.
Oh, and I don’t play, or have I ever played Football Manager. You seem to know how complicated it is to negotiate a football contract though – how many have you overseen out of interest?.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Well the trouble we were in last season was the wrong time to blood youngster’s you cannot put them into a team that’s struggling it can ruin them,when the team is playing well is the time to bed them in,thing is that might never happen the way we are going.
Thanks PREM good read
icedog(Quote)
SHARPY,I cannot say how deals are done now its a different world now but one thing for sure is players are asked about moves all the time in private before bids are even made its a very shady world now made worse
by greedy agents,it was dead easy in my day only played for two clubs,guy comes into the bar quietly asks me would you come play for us for xyz,aye nee bother you sort paperwork I’ll be there Monday jobs a good’n,simples. 😆
icedog(Quote)
STUART from last thread @279 you got it bloody spot on 😉
icedog(Quote)
Great article Prem – cheers matey 😉
Competition for places is also what we need. As you point out, having 1 RB for example, just not good enough.
We do seem to have a glut of midfielders though Doh!!!
Also I think we are having a few problems moving on the no-hopers, that are taking up valuable squad places, yet offering nowt in return.
I can see us hanging on again, up to Christmas, and strengthening in January, after a few have moved on then.
WE are in a bit of a pickle really.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Ice @7 – I know mate but we were doing well in Jan, points and position wise anyway. I’m not saying drop 11 seniors for 11 youngsters – but certainly Satka, Kemen, Abied and Armstrong could have got more game time. We assume they would have choked, but there is also the enthusiasm of youth. Could they really have done much worse?!.
As for modern day deals. I can well imagine there is a lot of enquiries made through different channels. But the point I’m making in particular is you don’t sign players by making enqs and you aren’t taken seriously as a buying club if, having made the enq you then spend the window bartering that price down – only to either not sign the player or another club come in and sign him instead.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Good read Premand. Top clubs have a mix of experience and youth. Youth alone can never work. We don’t have the proper mix to win anything and never will with Mike. We sell good players too soon so that Mike gets maximum profit. The loss of Cabaye was a killer for us for example. Mike is a failed experiment in ownership.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
To be honest I’m not sure TDS lives in the real world. Sounds very much to me like he works in the Civil Service.
Stuart79(Quote)
My frustration isn’t just at the fact we aren’t moving on the Austin deal the fact is – we are shy a back up RB, we have 3 CBs in the final year of their contract (all of which need replacing), we lack width and are low on firepower up front.
We have many position need strengthening and yet thus far we have brought 1 player in despite being in advance stages with only 1 other player – he doesn’t seem to want to join us.
We have a lot of option for a lot of different positions, yet nowts happening.
Sharpy17(Quote)
A club with our reputation of no ambition and an unknowledgeable owner, paired with poor management (Llambias, Kinnear, Charnley) is a definite deal killer in many cases. We are now famous for low bids and lack of competitiveness. We will never win anything with Ashley as owner. Take that one to the bank.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
We’re an almost complete disaster at the back. Krul can’t distribute the ball (his kicking is woeful), Colo is past it, Willo never had it, Dummett is a Championship level fullback at best, and poor old Janmaat must dread the start of the new season with the load of bollocks he has to play with in defense. But we will continue to bring in midfielders no doubt.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Ummmm…why are you ignoring all of those players in the last year of their contract?
Colo, Saylor and Willo have loads of experience, Krul might be only 27 but he’s got 10 years of playing with us now so that’s plenty of experience. Cisse, Goofy and Tiote also plenty of experience.
What we need to do is keep hold of our experienced players, not write them off as finished when they have a bad spell. People (mostly non-NUFC fans) were writing off Shearer as finished way before his final game for us. A 30+ player just needs a few bad games and he’s over the hill. A 25 year old is just going through a bad spell.
We have the experience in the squad to help the younger players, but obviously you don’t win anything with kids…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
SHARPY
Ummmm…I’ve already said, of course you can negotiate a deal without a bid! It’s not that simple at all!
They contact QPR to see their price and then they deal with the club, the player, the agent, the lawyers etc. to assess the overall package that they need to provide.
If I’m not allowed to comment on football contracts just because I’ve never negotiated one, then I don’t see how you can tell me how simple they are! I deal with business contracts all the time and I often look at football related business with a business hat on, rather than just the fan hat. It’s just not as simple as some think.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Colo is past it and could never handle high balls. Experience only helps if the player can still play at a high enough level. Krul is a poor distributor of the ball and always has been. He isn’t being challenged enough for his position. Willo was never a Prem level player. He should have been moved on a couple of seasons ago along with sick note Saylor. Gouffran has lost all confidence and looked worse with each time on the pitch for us last season. These are not the experienced players that will lift us when the young have their problems. We sit on older players because Mike won’t spend, not because they are still effective. That must be obvious surely?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
SHARPY
Imagine you’re buying a car and you visit 3 garages. Once you submit a formal offer, the garage can decide to accept it (in which case you sign the contract, pay and get the car) or reject it. Or obviously make a counter offer. But before you decide, surely you:
– Get the best offer for each car
– Negotiate extras such as add-ons, free insurance/tax etc.
– Investigate insurance, add-ons etc. yourself
– Use your own investigations to reduce their own offer
– Attempt to find cheaper prices privately and negotiate down the agent’s premium
All of that can take place without an offer being made. That sounds like negotiation to me.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Cisse can be an absolute flake at times. I’ve seen him shoot on goal and end up giving away a throw in many times. His ball control can be atrocious. Never seen a more inconsistent player. You can’t build an attack around that. If we don’t get a decent striker, 2 CB’s, a good winger, and at least 1 fullback in we’ll struggle again this season. I see no change in the basic method being used at the club. Charnley is hopeless.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Experienced players are written off too quickly. Shearer, Scholes, Terry…all players written off too early. Owen? Written off too late…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Yes but we never buy any CB cars. And we only buy cheap young cars. And we don’t move old decrepit cars on.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
I love good analogies…. 😆
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Good discussion today. Lots of well thought out comments. Ashley and Charnley are still hopeless and always will be. Schteve has no chance of making us a contender for anything except mediocre. But then again that’s all Ashley ever wanted for us.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
another year of struggle and frustration on the horizon
Munich Mag(Quote)
And don’t forget more bollocks from Lee and Mike Munich mate. We will definitely get more bollocks from them. Schteve will be in the hot seat as head coach but the true villains haven’t changed.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Actually Lee isn’t a villain, he’s just a completely incompetent pillock. That leaves you know who as the One True Scumbag.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Looks like Pardew is going to get Remy
icedog(Quote)
Porto match toon bid for Mis,was expecting it like after they got 32mil in their sale of their striker
icedog(Quote)
Looks like Pards is rebuilding NUFC at Palace. Interesting idea. They are definitely far ahead of us with the signing of Cabaye. Could be another top 10 finish for them. If we keep the same defense it won’t matter what Schteve does because we’ll ship goals by the basket full.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
we’ve got 7 centre halves and only a couple of them are any good. tricky one for charnley to deal with
Munich Mag(Quote)
ashley must be laughing his nads off. not only can’t we win games, we can’t sign players either.
Munich Mag(Quote)
Munich he’s actual been trying to sell us for the last 8 yrs but nee sod wants to buy us either mate 😆
Sharpy17(Quote)
If Palace get Remy then we are falling way behind the most average of clubs.
Stuart79(Quote)
And by the way, we could look complete idiots here. Waiting and waiting and waiting for players only for them to go elsewhere.
Stuart79(Quote)
Crikey its like reading a Goth board in here today, everyone down in the dumps! I’ll start panicking once Austin/Mis / Matip et al sign on elsewhere. It is **** how long it’s all taking though.
Shamrock(Quote)
Surely something has to break by theweek-end it cannot go on much longer,seems the press is getting the run around by the toon,with all these
false trails,now they know how we have felt for 7/8years
icedog(Quote)
https://youtu.be/l09y-KaeKQI
I do like that the club are doing these mind.
Sharpy17(Quote)
I would have took Remy back, even before our supposed interest in Misfitrich. If he goes to CP, then that’s a very good bit of business by them.
As it stands right now, we will struggle to get out of the bottom third.
Once we have shipped 28 goals by xmas, perhaps the penny will have finally dropped. All to late as per usual.
Followed by panic buying in January.
Well that’s my prediction, until we start signing a few quality players.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
I don’t follow the transfer window at this stage. Too many journos writing column inches and agents touting players.
Can somebody update me on Patrick Bamford. If we had him Austin, Riviera, Perez and Aaron that would be a good starting point. Get rid of Cisse.
This will be the 5th season we have needed two centre backs. A priority along with the two strikers
Toby let Rhone(Quote)
And now Aston Villa will have £40m burning a hole in their pocket and I reckon they wouldn’t baulk at paying £15m for Austin. Especially as they need a striker now they’ve sold the only player who scored any goals for them.
Stuart79(Quote)
Hopefully, once Steve sees our players up close for a few games we can have some addition by subtraction – yes, I am talking about you Willo, and you Obertan. Also, throw some money at Aarons if he proves his fitness. He has actually shown as much in the cameos he has had as Obertan and Sammy have shown in 40+ starts. Give Cabella another year.
We can then spend the bulk of our transfer kitty on a CB and CF, and upgrade a few backups.
I have a feeling that we will let a couple of Cisse, Tiote and Sissoko leave though so we will need replacements.
The point that is being made is that we are faffing around trying to sign one or two players when we need 4 or 5 and even more if some of our experienced players leave. Charnley has not shown that he can walk and chew gum at the same time and if players leave towards the end of the transfer window we will be left desperate and maybe just be stuck with the dregs at closing time. Brian Ruiz anyone?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Ime sick of the whole bloody circus,no wonder Dave stays off talking transfers with these jokers at the toon
icedog(Quote)
Stu – Villa are after Adeybeour apparently but I’m sure with £40m they will look to strengthen in depth saying as they spent 2 or 3 seasons shopping in the Championship. Can’t believe Delph U-turn like – and only £8m. Their midfield is a lot weaker without him & Cleverly – that will likely be their priority as well as a forward. It’s a very different looking Villa that Micah Richards has joined now isn’t it?! 😳
Sharpy17(Quote)
Icedog – even when you try to be positive about things, the bastards still manage to grind us down.
Nowt will happen over the weekend either.
Except maybe another defeat over stateside tomorrow night.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
BB cheers mate that makes me feel a whole lot better NOT lol
icedog(Quote)
Oh no I missed us being linked to yet another midfielder we don’t need.
Leroy Fer.
Is it because he is dutch ❓
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Icedog – hopefully schteve gets to see once again how shockingly bad our defence is, and is forced into taking action.
Ha.
BTW is King Colo on the USA tour ?
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Aye Colo is there somewhere I know he’s hard to see even when he’s playing
icedog(Quote)
BB: I think we are playing the Sacramento reserves as they want to keep their regulars fit for MLS. I saw Man U beat the Chicago Fire 7-1 a few years ago – Obertan scored so that should tell you the gulf in class. MLS is about Championship standard so their reserves are probably League 1 or 2. I think we can manage that 🙂 Get Aarons and De Jong some playing time and have a look at Wij.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Sorry, it is Portland who will be playing their reserves. Sacramento aren’t even in MLS.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
More on Sacramento. It looks like they are League 2 standard or below:
http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20150717/usa-tour-2015-sacramento-republic_2281670_4852849?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
They did beat the scum earlier this week though 🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Eric, Everyone beat them lot, apart from us!
Stuart79(Quote)
Eric – cant believe the change in you since we signed another midfielder.
you’ve never been so optimistic.
Beardsleys Boots(Quote)
Mind this Mbemba is a canny defender if we are in for him,but then most anyone would be better than what we have,talk is he’s the best defender in that lge
icedog(Quote)
Ice, Mbiwa was a tidy player but it still got shipped out.
Prem , great article mate, very interesting read.
kimtoon(Quote)
BB: it was the dark clouds of Pardew and Carver being lifted. I am usually optimistic but you have only seen me under those two arrogant w@nkers. I am even willing to cut Charnley a bit of slack even though I think he is underqualified.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Oh, but BB: I still think we are crazy if we don’t get the bulk of our signings done before the 1st game. We have a very difficult 1st month and it would be very bad planning to wait, especially considering Palace and Leicester can now compete with us on fees and wages.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I hope Penfold gets nee sleep until he pulls summit out the bag
icedog(Quote)
I saw Liverpool’s new look team last night. They played Brisbane Roar. The difference in appearance of the two teams was stark: Liverpool in their gold lined shirts, bedecked with jewels and glowing media halos; and Brisbane in their rags, guv, and bare feet: boots? I can’t afford boots; I haven’t even eaten in two weeks.
Pretty even first half. Liverpool coming good in the second. Good game. Liverpool won 2-1. 50,000 there, with about 99.9% of them in Liverpool gear. What a circus!
brisvegas(Quote)
EPL Fantasy Football:NUFC H2H. Code: 298856-79420.
Still a few places available, so get in now before they are all snapped up. Put your money where your Football Managers mouth is.
You should enjoy the transfer set-up; it’s as simple as a click away, just like real life. : 😉 None of this bothering about what the player wants or what the agent is negotiating. What do they have to do with it anyway. Just pay the money and he’s in. Simple. I don’t know why Charnley is making such hard work of it!
brisvegas(Quote)
Ryder is basically saying we have got Mitrovic. Maybe travelling with NUFC is giving him more access and he is having a few drinks at the bar with coaches and players?
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/newcastle-united-want-mitrovic-board-9682996?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Bris I’m in. Now who did the Blog Classic league last season
Premandup(Quote)
Prem…Aussie did it 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Am i the only one on here thinking **** Mitrovic , his family were in Newcastle a week ago looking around the place and still their is no deal done. I honestly believe the club have done everything to get him too sign but his father is pushing for more , its gone on far too long we do not need a mecenary in the Squad who only comes for the money .We have had too many of those in the past .Lets just sign up his team mate because we need defenders in quickly and let the money grabbing **** of a father sort a move out too Porto (less money)and we can buy Austin and bas dost.
Axel(Quote)
All sorts of machinations, but it is coming to a head.
Funny how if we low bid were cheap. If the player then asks for the rate we should have offered he’s a mercenary.
Oh the joys of perspective
Premandup(Quote)
Eric, Lee Ryder is just repeating what was said in a report from Belgium regards Mitrovic. He has no idea like everyone else. Only people who know what’s going on are the player and his dad. Not sure we can expect him to join us after having the offer on the table for so long, but I’m always hopeful.
Stuart79(Quote)
http://mobile.newsnow.co.uk/A/783406945?-11058:809
Wow the bit at the bottom about Mitrovics pay structure is interesting.
Sharpy17(Quote)
@ Stuart “I’m always hopeful.” I have heard it all, now!! 😆
LionelSpeed(Quote)
Lionel, yes that’s right. I always ‘hope’. But that’s different to what I expect. I hope one day we will win the league but I don’t expect it to happen.
So basically you don’t understand the difference between hope and expectations.
Stuart79(Quote)
You boys have been on the darkness pills, again. Will you let this bloody window close and then judge who is an idiot, which average teams are better than us and so on. Lee is **** because he doesn’t just spend loads of money and get the player, but I think I could probably spend loads of money and get the player, but that does not make me a great negotiator/ deal closer. If he were to get 💡 deals done to get the players in who have been often talked about on here, he will have done an amazing job. The Gini deal is already a good one. F-ck Palace, Sunderland, Villa etc, I don’t care what they are doing, I care about we will have done at the end of the window. There is no point saying Lee and Ashley are ****, when they could still end up doing some pretty amazing business this window. Plus, whoever Palace buy they have still got Pardew and we have McClaren, so f-ck ’em because we chase the ball down as a team and then pass it to team mates. The players say it is a novel experience but a nice one, and one they could get used to. 😆
LionelSpeed(Quote)
Well there’s two points to make there, Lionel.
1) Of course we should be bothered what our competitors are doing! It’s itterly ridiculous to just ignore the clubs we will be competing against. Would you ignore what your main competitors were doing in business? No you wouldn’t so that’s a stupid thing to say.
2) If we did as you say and wait till the end of the window then this blog would be dead and would only have people commenting during and after actual games. We like discussing NUFC and whether you like it or not, at the moment the only thing to discuss is the transfer window. If you don’t like it, then maybe you should come back on 1st Sept.
Stuart79(Quote)
Ohh, Stu. To be hopeful is to basically feel that things will turn out to be as you want them to be. They are not expectations or dreams. Your language is not one of a hopeful person, I can understand why, but you are not somebody that could be described as being hopeful about this window, you have, at every turn, highlighted every possible negative and every reason why we should not be hopeful. “Even Villa have 40million to spend, now!!!!” to paraphrase.
I was hopeful we would have a good window. I am hopeful we will have a good window. And I am going to be hopeful until the window closes.
I am not at all hopeful that we will win the league in the next 10 years. But, I am hopeful that our club will be one worth supporting again, until of course, that hope is dashed.
LionelSpeed(Quote)