A Martin Skrtel own goal from a deflected Gini Wijnaldum shot opened the scoring with our Dutch number five sealing the three points in stoppage time with a cool finish from a Moussa Sissoko through ball.
Much was made of Liverpool’s impressive form prior to the match and it’s fair to say that optimism was in short supply following two dismal results for United but you have to give credit where it’s due. Part of Liverpool’s upturn in form can be attributed to the increased work rate that Jurgen Klopp has instilled within his group and Steve McClaren said prior to the game that we’d have to beat that to win. True to his word we did cover more ground and ended up winning the game.
What was pleasing from our perspective was the increased sense of commitment from our players who actually looked like it mattered. And of course the crowd responded to each tackle in turn.
This win does not turn our season around but it has built some bridges and does show that we do have players able to get us out of this. We just have to do what we did today in a more regular basis.
Next Sunday we’re away at Tottenham where we can expect another tough day where we’re not going to be favourites again. But if we approach the game as we did today we can walk away with credit, even if we don’t get a result.
Newcastle: Rob Elliot, Paul Dummett, Chancel Mbemba, Fabricio Coloccini, Daryl Janmaat, Georginio Wijnaldum, Vurnon Anita, Jack Colback, Moussa Sissoko, Siem de Jong, Papiss Cisse
Subs: Karl Darlow, Jamie Sterry, Kevin Mbabu, Yoan Gouffran, Florian Thauvin, Ayoze Perez, Aleksandar Mitrovic
Liverpool: Simon Mignolet, Nathaniel Clyne, Martin Skrtel, Dejan Lovren, Alberto Moreno, Lucas, Joe Allen, James Milner, Jordan Ibe, Firmino, Christian Benteke
Subs: Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jordan Henderson, Daniel Sturridge, Adam Lallana, Divock Origi, Cnnor Randall
Attendance: 51,273
Funny when we don’t sign players that you say we should just stump up the money, but when it suits you, you make a case for why it’s not good value…
If a club really wanted him and wanted to stop another club from getting him in January or the following summer, then they’d have found a way to buy him. £15m for Austin is £15m, no matter whether a typical price would have been less because of his contract.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Stuart it was the same last season and yes I can believe it. Especially from that useless ****.
Stem(Quote)
TDS – What are you going on about? When did I say there wasn’t value in Austin? I said that’s why he didn’t get bought. Even you as the most pig headed person on here would have to admit that there’s an obvious reason why somebody with one year left on their contract doesn’t get bought for £15m. I can’t think of one player.
Stuart79(Quote)
If a club wanted a new striker and was willing to pay £15m for one, then they chose to sign another striker rather than Austin, that means they either valued that other striker higher than Austin or they were being pig headed themselves in refusing to pay higher than the market value. Fact is, if a club was willing to pay decent money and Austin wanted to go, he would have gone. I bet no club offered decent money and a decent package to entice QPR and Austin.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Austin has to move now if he has any ambition whatsoever. His story and Vardy’s are like fairy tales and if he wants any chance of going to the Euros he has to move. Probably Palace would be his best bet as they are in London and Roy will be watching. If he waits for a Bosman then greed (his Agent) has taken over and he deserves to be mid-table Championship.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
TDS: Leicester supposedly offered 12 mil.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
It’s incredible! That’s like asking why nobody will pay £15m for him now. The money men ask why pay so much when they could get him for nothing in 6 months??? Although I suppose it matters how desperate a club is. It’s called a open market. commodities value is set by what the buyer will pay. What the buyer will pay is dependent on their requirement. If they need that commodity they will pay top whack for it. It’s not hard to understand.
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu, I agree, no club in their right mind would spend that on Austin so near to the end of his contract, especially with question marks over his knee is it?
kimtoon(Quote)
It is hard to understand to some people, Kim. Bit like knowing there’s a housing market crash going to happen in 6 months but going buying a house for top whack! Why would you do that, unless you were completely desperate for a house?
It’s a different argument as to whether we were desperate in the summer. I think our league position is showing that there’s a good argument that we should have paid the money as I believe we would be a lot higher in the league.
Stuart79(Quote)
QPR had more chance of getting promoted by keeping Austin this season which is worth a lot more than £15m.
The gamble may have misfired and their only chance of promotion would seem to be via the play offs. Austin is probably still their best chance of getting to the play offs
Regardless of that, I will be absolutely stunned if Austin moves in January not least because of the big payout he will get as a free agent in the Summer.
sidekick(Quote)
Unbelievable!!! The transfer window is 1 month long and we are in the relegation zone and there have not been any serious discussions at board level:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/10095342/steve-mcclaren-focused-purely-on-newcastle-results?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
STUART I agree no club is going to pay 15mil for a player that can talk to clubs in Jan about a move in the summer for nowt anyone thinking otherwise is rang in the heed or knows little about the transfer market.
Penfold trying to sell cheap tickets is it a sign we will buy no one in Jan??
SM giving up date on Tiote and Aarons injury,Ime going to name that Aarons tampon since the season kicked of he’s been back a week then out a month no wonder he has not been offered a new contract
icedog(Quote)
Steve is too honest. All he had to say was “we have had discussions but at this time I cannot discuss the matter”. If we don’t sign anyone or only one, then he says other clubs would not make our targets available. Simple, just tell a few white lies – it is better than looking stupid.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Ice: NUFC have a one year option on Aarons in the summer so they will wait on his fitness. As they probably should even though he looks a real talent.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
They’d be mad to base a decision on Aarrons future on his fitness. Many young players suffer a lot of injuries early in their career.
Stuart79(Quote)
My fear on Aarons is he another K.Dyer very Pacey always lame,yes some young player get injury early on but not as much as him,as for me he’s tampon until he shows me more than a couple of games at a time
icedog(Quote)
Stuart: If there is anyone worth a small gamble it is Aarons as long as his Agent isn’t asking silly money. Maybe what Ayoze is on now would be about right? I think Ayoze will get a raise anyway, unless of course the idiots decide to sell him.
NUFC are in control of Aarons though so they can afford to wait.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
If Steve hasn’t mentioned anything to Charnley about January transfers WTF do they talk about when they see each other? What colour to paint the corridors, did Lee order a new supply of domestos, should we really cancel the fancy dress party? Seriously, they supposedly speak all the time and the subject of transfers hasn’t come up. Maybe Schteve is a better liar than I thought 🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Hey Lee, how’s the wife? Kids? Who’s Graham got lined up for January? Might I make a suggestion…
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Lee fiddles while Toon burns 🙄
kimtoon(Quote)
He’s probably been avoiding him after he start they’ve had. But let’s be honest, why on earth would McClaren discuss transfers when he has **** all say on them? I read today somewhere that he doesn’t even recommend the positions that need strengthening – that’s Carrs job too!
Stuart79(Quote)
Time to buy some players with PL experience anything else is foolish at this stage.
kimtoon(Quote)
Spurs struggling against Monaco I see… 🙁
Stuart79(Quote)
Kimtoon: I suggested Naismith @183.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Stuart: its Lamela, he usually can’t hit a cow’s **** with a banjo. Neither team has bothered much with defending.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
And don’t give me any **** about Everton rejects 🙂 I remember a certain player who says “basically” and “obviously” a lot came from them.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Aaron’s is not fit to lace Dyers boots. Injury prone he might have been but he was a very good player and contributed a lot to the cause. Aarons can’t even put 90 mins together, which is a shame as he is a real prospect. Fingers crossed all these niggles don’t cost him his pace before he turns 21…
Shamrock(Quote)
Dyer played 217 games for us, lasting the full 90 in over 150 games and contributing 50 goals or assists.
Shamrock(Quote)
TDS @213 – to be fair mate I don’t Adam Johnson has been a total failure at Sunderland, Brown & O’Shea were just too old and Rodwell is never fit.
I understand your point though mate, but just coz a player can’t get into one PL side doesn’t mean they aren’t good enough – look at Milner (city to Lpool), Shelvey (Pool to Swans), Sigurdsson (Spurs to Swans) and even Forster (toon to eventually Saints).
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy – Using TFS’ rationale it would mean that every team is of the same standard.
Although he has lambasted buying established players, could that policy be any worse than what we have now? 3 relegation battles in 5 years…
Stuart79(Quote)
TDS
Stuart79(Quote)
SHAM Ime not doubting Dyer was a good player for the toon (sir bobby spat aside) but was injury prone he even cost W/ham 15 mil in wages without playing a game
icedog(Quote)
SHARPY
But every one of the players you mention has done down to a less ambitious club. Including Forster who move to Celtic because we chose Krul over him.
So for me getting Townsend says we are happy to sign a player rejected by a top 6 PL side. It just sends out that message that, at best, we are aiming for 7th to 10th in the PL.
I also did say that I have no problem signing him, I just don’t think he’s worth £15m. Although you do seem to pay a lot more for English players…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
The housing example when comparing to Austin…
If I knew a house would be worth less in 6 months but I really loved the house and really wanted/needed it right then, I’d pay the extra for the long term gain, sure I would! Because if I didn’t, then it would fall into the budget of other people in 6 months and maybe I wouldn’t get the house at all!
If Austin was worth £15m and we’d signed him in the summer and he’s scored plenty of goals, then he’d be worth £20m+ by now too, so the example is a bit silly…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TDS / Eric, on those signings, the only players ‘on the way down’ who were any good for the Toon were Keegan in a lower division and Beardo’s second coming. Actually, even for Spurs and England, I think Townsend is bang average and has been found out, so I wouldn’t really want him almost any price, but especially since, sadly, Spurs to Newcastle is, these days, a real step down for any player. Sure, you can find a Shaquiri (we did it with Ginola), but they are very rare.
Austin, for me, would be making a move up a division and to a higher profile club,so I could see him arrive hungry. The kind of English signing I would want would be a Shelvey, but I can’t see it happening.
GTE(Quote)
Sorry, how is that silly? How can he increase in value when its getting closer and closer to the end of his contract and being available for nothing? Do you look at transfers around the world? Can you name me one player, just one player who has increased his value in the last year of his contract? ie someone who was more expensive with 6 months on his contract than when he had 12 months left. QPR said he was worth £15m – non of the buyers thought he was so he stayed put. I would be surprised if he left even now for half that as the money men at most clubs will see it as wasting £7m on an asset you can get for nothing in 6 months. Although, I personally think he is worth the £7m to us or Villa or Sunderland because I believe he would score the goals to keep us up. I think it’s a fair assumption to make that he would have scored 5 or 6 goals for us already this season and that could well have put us an extra 4 or 5 places up the league.
Stuart79(Quote)
On Townsend, I doubt I would pay £15m for him but I wouldn’t have paid £13m for Thauvin either. But you do pay a premium for UK players and that’s because they’re less of a risk than players from abroad. They won’t need to settle and you pretty much know what you’re getting. I would say £10m would be a decent bet on Townsend as if he could recapture his form of 18 months ago (and he’s done it in patches) he would be a great addition to our team.
The talk of not buying players from top 6 teams is just stupid. Just because a player isn’t good enough to get in a top 6 club doesn’t mean he isn’t good enough to improve our squad. He can play a part in improving us and getting us to where we want to be. it is also in the eye of the manager too. Some managers just don’t like certain players, but some managers do – it’s football. It doesn’t always mean they’re not very good!
Stuart79(Quote)
STUART @261/262 spot on mate I agree 100%,the comments are just common sense imo
icedog(Quote)
STUART
You sign a player for £15m even if he’s worth say £10m market value because of his contract, but then if 6 months later he’s worth £25m, then it’s a good deal right? Who gives a **** what you paid for him then!
Surely that’s better than waiting a full year, getting relegated and seeing another club pick him up for free??
Point is, no club was willing to push the boat out to sign him. At one point he was linked with Man Utd and Chelsea. They wouldn’t think twice to signing a player for £15m if they really wanted him. Who cares what he’s worth at that point.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
There are a huge number of failures in terms of players moving from the top 6 down to a lower PL club. Only a few successes!
Just looking back at our history, the players we’ve signed from a bigger club recently have been Obertan, Routledge, Simpson, Guthrie, Smith, Barton, Geremi, Duff and Owen…
Of those only Barton was a fair success, that was mostly in the Championship and he was a disruptive influence after that.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
But most of them players you mentioned just aren’t very good and weren’t very good at their other clubs.
Regarding the Austin debate. Any player can increase their value if they perform well. If you don’t think a player is worth £15m you don’t pay it. The problem with Austin was that QPR still valued Austin at £15m even though he had only one year left. If Austin had 3 years left on his contract he would probably have been worth that in today’s market.
Stuart79(Quote)
Not just us – football is about players’ ambition, heart, commitment and ability to learn, as well as technical or physical ability. That’s why there are so very few examples of players making a ‘move down’ who deliver anything like the expected promise. It’s probably not even conscious, but it must be a big subconcious blow to know that you basically failed or have been let go by the club iof your dreams / club you worked your way to get in to – and it takes a very special person to overcome that and produce the best you can on the way down, especially the first move down.
So, on paper top-6 club players imporve our squad, the experience of our club, and all of the others, is that very often they end up as money utterly wasted. Combine that with the evident limitations in Townsend’s game, and his apparent inability to learn / adapt his style, and I still reckon he’d be a poor signing.
Don’t know the bloke personally, like.
GTE(Quote)
GTE: I am not sold on Townsend but would take him on loan to have a look. Spurs are playing the high press and Townsend may not be suited to that. We don’t play the high press so he might be useful for us. My main reservation is when he cuts back in and shoots and we would have to know that that is not his only move to buy him.
There is probably no better example of a player being used in the wrong way than ben Arfa when Pardew tried to make him a second fullback. So managers can affect how players play and a move to another club could be beneficial. I will never understand why we still cancelled his contract even though Pardew was leaving.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I mean, not every player is suited to every formation and style of play. For example, I doubt Van Nistlerooy would have been any good in the high press and Benteke looked lost last week.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
There’s plenty of players who have been released from top clubs but they get over it and make a good career. Look at the likes of Shawcross, Shelvey, Naughton, Cleverley, and Phil Neville for a start. All left big clubs and went on to be very good players for their new teams. I think it has been us who just haven’t been very good at picking them. We got Smith when everyone knew he was finished when at Man Utd and we also got Geremi when Mourinho had told SBR his legs had gone and we also brought in Obertan who has never been any good at all!
Stuart79(Quote)
That’s a fair point, Eric. It would depend, I suppose, on Townsend’s character – in terms of determination, even bringing with him a sense of injustice, which could work. Bloody hope he could learn to go on either side of a ful back, however.
GTE(Quote)
When I think about the high press and the geggen-press being so much in vogue it makes me wonder if Chris Waddle would ever have got a game for Spurs? And Pards would have had him doing double duty as full back for us.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I can also think of a Newcastle player who was sold to Liverpool for 35 mil and then told he would not play by the new manager before he had kicked a ball. Sure, his career has stalled at West Ham but he has been injured a lot. Some managers just don’t like certain players or feel they don’t fit their style.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
STUART
Shawcross was released young after hardly playing, Shelvey was disruptive but playing well at Liverpool then sold to Swansea, Naughton has been average, Cleverley was poor at Villa last year and ok at Everton plus he was sold, Phil Neville is the only one you’ve listed who was sold after a few years playing for a bigger club and then had plenty of success.
There aren’t that many examples of players being released by top clubs and then having an excellent career. Examples like Adam Johnson and David Bentley had glimpses of their talent after leaving but ultimately their poor attitude shone through and their careers suffered.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
That player proves the ‘hunger’ argument again, Eric. Nothing would delight me more than for Carroll to get a couple of i jury free seasons and to show the form and desire he had for that half season for us (ideally in a Toon shirt), but half the reason he has the injory record he has is his far from dedicated to football lifestyle – bit of a playboy, can he ever shake that off? That’s where kudos goes to Shelvey – picked up young for too much money and discarded, he’s actually worked at his game and become a better player at Swans. Not too many keep dedicated like that – Shawcross several years ago, but he was never a first teamer prevously. From Stuart’s list, jury has to be out on Cleverly.
GTE(Quote)
I’m certainly not saying we shouldn’t sign Townsend because he’s dropping down the league. What I’m saying is that I don’t think we should commit much to it or set our hearts on him being a success. Very few players have been released from top 6 clubs and then been a great success elsewhere.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TDS: I take your point to an extent. However, Brian Clough built a career on taking rejects and making them winners. It was only after he had great success that he was able to buy the likes of Shilton and Francis.
Mostly though there is a reason a player leaves a top club and it could be as simple as they bought a better player. See Barcelona where Neymar and Suarez effectively replaced Sanchez and Pedro.
As I said earlier , I would take Naismith. It is not really his fault he is stuck behind Barkley and Lukaku in the pecking order.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Sometimes a face or ego just doesn’t fit – Zlatan, anyone. He went from a top club to bloody France FFS and nobody doubts his ability.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Listened to Tony Pulis last night discussing Spurs’ game. What they did (1-1) was when Spurs did their 4 or 5 man pressing was flash the ball to the other side of the pitch leaving the ‘press’ useless. Is McClaren clever enough to invent something like that?
My view is that Townshend is not even as good as Routledge. What we need is a Mahrez for £2m!
georgio(Quote)
ERIC
Sanchez and Pedro went for big money and didn’t the Barca manager say he wished he hadn’t sold Pedro? I think it’s a bit different when a club signs a truly world class player and an excellent player then becomes a squad player. They were sold because they needed to balance the books and the player wouldn’t be happy to compete for his place in the squad.
I’d be happy with the likes of Naismith in the squad. We all agree that we need more players like that with proper PL experience. Who do we have that can take the game by the scruff of the neck and really roll his sleeves up? Taylor? Colback? Sissoko on his day maybe…we need more.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Actually TDS, You will find that Cleverley was quite important to Villa last year and is playing excellently this season for Everton. Where did you get your info from about Shelvey. All I remember was Rogers saying he’s a good player but wants to leave to get regular football. It has improved him a heap!
You seem to forget the likes of Johnson and Bentley’s mistake was actually leaving a smaller club to go to a bigger club and get no football. That is what stalled their careers and the same goes for Rodwell and SWP. It had nothing to do with leaving bigger clubs as their careers had already stalled at them clubs.
How are you measuring players leaving top 6 clubs and being ‘a success’? How do you know they haven’t been a success? They may have improved their new club’s first team but might not have lived up to the expectations. Big difference!
Stuart79(Quote)
On the whole when a player leaves a big club for a lesser club they have not been up to scratch and you will see that they are usually average and were helped by playing with elite players. It happens the other way as well. There are not very many players in their mid-20s who move from lower divisions to the PL or from strugglers to big teams. The die is usually cast at that point (obviously there will be a few exceptions).
Eric Sykes(Quote)
It is also all very relative too. Pedro and Sanchez are great examples of players leaving top clubs to go to smaller clubs, just on a different scale.
Milner has done well at Liverpool but by your rationale they shouldn’t have signed him. Same with Sturridge, they shouldn’t have signed him from Chelsea. Injuries apart he’s been a revelation.
Stuart79(Quote)
But Eric, are you seriously saying players from bigger clubs make their new teams actually worse when they move? Surely if they improve their new team they are a success?
Stuart79(Quote)
TDS says someone like Naughton has been average. Yet he is still a first team regular for Swansea so the player he replaced must have been poor, so is that a success because he’s better than what he replaced?
Stuart79(Quote)
Here’s one for you TDS: Cabaye. His face didn’t fit at PSG but we know he is a good player.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Stuart @284: there are examples both ways. I would say Obertan made us worse but Phil Neville made Everton better. I am not sure what I am saying anymore as I agree with some of what you say AND some of what TDS says 🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Interesting chat but there’s so many factors that dictate a players success or not doesn’t matter which club or country the move comes. Generally though the better the team they move too – the better they look. Going round in circles about it is rather pointless.
georgio(Quote)
Eric – A blind man on a galloping horse could see Obertan wouldn’t have made us any better!
Stuart79(Quote)
Maybe it is not an either/or answer. The answer could be it depends on the player, the system, the managers and the circumstances.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Step out of the circle then, Georgio.
Stuart79(Quote)
There are positive and negative examples but to base a whole transfer policy on it like TDS is implying is just not sensible. Ultimately if the buying club think he’s a good player they should buy him, regardless of who they are buying him from.
Stuart79(Quote)
Stuart: for what it is worth there is definitely a big club and London club bias where some players are thought to be better than they are and are then found out when they move. Just look at the England team where average players from Man U and Liverpool are always picked. It could be that they are perceived as having a big game mentality by virtue of playing for those teams but it does exist. Didn’t they take Theo Walcott to a major tournament to “give him experience” leaving someone more deserving at home? (that might be a bit of a tangent 🙂 )
Eric Sykes(Quote)
STUART
You’re going to keep arguing no matter how many good points others raise. I concede certain points but you just keep plucking out examples of the exceptions and ignoring the general rule. What we are saying is that it’s rare for a player to be a success after a top 6 club lets them go. I’m not talking about a player being unhappy and kicking up a fuss to get first team football and reenergise their career, I’m talking about a player who isn’t really wanted by the bigger club.
I reckon Chelsea would have kept Sturridge but he wanted to play every game, I think similar with Milner. Both of them were getting pretty regular football a the bigger club, whereas Townsend is rarely even on the bench for Spurs.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
I think what I am saying is that there is a big club bias when assessing players, the attitude that since he plays for Man U he must be good. When they are subsequently sold it turns out they are not that good so you see a perceived drop off when in fact they were never that good to begin with.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
You still haven’t answered my question. What is ‘a success’?
Stuart79(Quote)
Eric – If that is the case it is the fault of the buying clubs scouts then. They should be judging a player on his qualities, not on the club he plays for. But I still maintain that the majority of these players will have improved their new clubs squad.
Stuart79(Quote)
TDS: you should have read Football365. They didn’t rate Townsend at all and in fact made fun of his one move of cutting in side and shooting. Sure enough though, next game he played for England he scored and was Man of the Match. I think he has a full on strop with Poch and that partly explains why he never sees any playing time.
Spurs have f’d up with quite a few signings whose faces didn’t fit and form suffered. They have just about changed their whole team in the last 2 years.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
It is not always obvious who is a good player outside the elite. Take Vardy, he is on fire but only scored 5 goals last year. Who is the real Jamie Vardy, the lower league journeyman of the PL consecutive goal record breaker?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I wouldn’t be touching Vardy with a pole. His value will be very high and all based on a few games this season. He doesn’t have a goalscoring record anywhere near Austin’s during their careers.
Stuart79(Quote)