127 thoughts on “Jonjo Shelvey – A Questionable Morality

  1. to me its a storm in a tea cup,every person/fans get this most days in their life at some point we get called honky by some races would we win a case if we took it all the way,maybe Shelvey called him a smelly arab and a certain type of nounce, not forgetting Shelvey was called names over his bald head,ive called players worse than that when i was playing there is no malice in it and is water under the bridge after the game its just a heat of the moment thing.i think we have fell out with our mates and said things that meant nothing later when you calm down,for me its bah humbug

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  2. Failure on appeal doesn’t mean it actually happened much the same way as other cases, there is no recording of the words and the accuser, not victim appears to have been twice the distance from the Shelvey with the ref closer also, who made no recording of the incident. Shelvey has cited intimidation that Shelvey he received (on many occasions prior) and also during this game that his illness was targeted for abuse, a key point of the statement was the line with penalties imposed was ‘the penalties are set aside pending an appeal’. i.e nothing imposed yet.
    That kind of gives me the impression that this has been settled long ago. The panel finds that Shelvey fell foul of the law, and gives out punishment. The clubs appeal could be based on him allowing his standards to slip based on the constant abuse he received during the game, ban reduced to 1 or 2 games fine held over incase another incident occurs. F.A. reiterates it’s policies on disabilities, illness’s race and everyone goes home happy.

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  3. I have to be honest I’m bored of it now.
    If he has said what he’s accused of it’s wrong – simple, and he should and has been punished.
    If he hasn’t, then challenge it but have a good defence or they will throw the library not just the book!!.

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  4. A lot of talk in the papers today that we are going in with a £5m for Robert Snodgrass next month.
    Not a bad price as he’s 29 – has bags of experience & can score goals as well – would be another leader in the squad for me as well.

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  5. Sharpy17:
    A lot of talk in the papers today that we are going in with a £5m for Robert Snodgrass next month.
    Not a bad price as he’s 29 – has bags of experience & can score goals as well – would be another leader in the squad for me as well.

    must say i didnt like the way he was trying to buy a pen against us,the cost of players now is frighting so 5 mil is very cheap in todays market,Rafa seems to be sneaking these players in very well at good prices,they are not world beaters but we dont need that type of player “yet”

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  6. Well reasoned article Andy – the many stances you stipulated indicative of an issue that is indeed muddy to start with and compounded by this case. Apparently the ref was nearer than the Wolves player who reported it and the Mail’s smelly arab is probably wrong. Shelvey says he said nothing at all. As I say, Muddy is the word, and personally I wouldn’t make any moral judgement at all.

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  7. We will have to wait until the written notice to see why Shelvey was convicted by this kangaroo court. From reports though, the Wolves players couldn’t get their stories straight and there is no evidence such as video or audio. To convict someone of racism and ban them for 5 games would require compelling evidence, let’s see what they have got. As I have said, I do not believe the FA, or anything related to the FA can be trusted as they have proven themselves again and again to be a bunch of clowns.

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  8. icedog: must say i didnt like the way he was trying to buy a pen against us,the cost of players now is frighting so 5 mil is very cheap in todays market,Rafa seems to be sneaking these players in very well at good prices,they are not world beaters but we dont need that type of player “yet”

    Ice – yeah a little sneaky, but he’s nee Henri Lansbury!! ?.
    I know what you mean though, not a world beater but has a quality and a good work rate. He’d be useful over the next 2 seasons – getting back and maintaining PL status. As bad as Hull have been, he’s got 7 PL goals already this season – not bad for a wide player. I think we’d get value for money at £5m – half the money we are supposedly getting from the sale of Thauvin.

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  9. Sharpy17: Ice – yeah a little sneaky, but he’s nee Henri Lansbury!! .
    I know what you mean though, not a world beater but has a quality and a good work rate.He’d be useful over the next 2 seasons – getting back and maintaining PL status.As bad as Hull have been, he’s got 7 PL goals already this season – not bad for a wide player.I think we’d get value for money at £5m – half the money we are supposedly getting from the sale of Thauvin.

    i asked you on the last thread how are going with your dog? has been four years since we lost ours but wife is getting the itch again thing is it would limit our trips to Malta,just know what to do

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  10. IceL that New Statesman article is a bunch of crap as well. He doesn’t even know the facts, Newcastle do not have to appeal the ruling for Shelvey to play against Sheff Wed. The Ref heard nothing and the Wolves players have differing accounts of what was said. He has convicted Shelvey without seeing the ruling and is accepting that this panel and the FA know what they are doing. He is having a swing at NUFC and football fans from his high horse.

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  11. Clarky is available if Palace are looking for an interim Manager. He is managing a lower half SPL team with 19 points from 18 games and a GD of minus 14.

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  12. Eric Sykes:
    IceL that New Statesman article is a bunch of crap as well. He doesn’t even know the facts, Newcastle do not have to appeal the ruling for Shelvey to play against Sheff Wed. The Ref heard nothing and the Wolves players have differing accounts of what was said. He has convicted Shelvey without seeing the ruling and is accepting that this panel and the FA know what they are doing. He is having a swing at NUFC and football fans from his high horse.

    it was what was handed out to other players that caught my eye

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  13. icedog: i asked you on the last thread how are going with your dog? has been four years since we lost ours but wife is getting the itch again thing is it would limit our trips to Malta,just know what to do

    Ice – sorry mate, wasn’t ignoring you I missed that post.
    Yeah he was 4 last month and is a huge part of the family now like. I never grew up with a dog, so never really got it – but this little bugger is mint. Him and my son get on great, infact as I write this he’s asleep on his knee on the sofa while he watches ‘how to train your dragon’.

    I know what you mean about holidays though. But the in-laws had to have their dog put down in the same week ours had his final injections as a pup & they didn’t want to get another – the grand kids keep them busy now. But they are happy to have ours while we are away.

    What did you do for Malta trips when you had a dog mate?

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  14. Fat Sam set to replace Pardew as well – he won’t like that after he took his England job off him as well!!!

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  15. Dear Steve Parish:

    My name is Troy Stavers and I would like to submit my client “Ugly” John Carver’s CV for consideration as next Manager of your great football club. As I am sure you are aware, Ugly John succeeded Alan Pardew as “coach” of NUFC and successfully avoided relegation. After a short sabbatical in Cyprus he is ready to get stuck in in that London and will not say your Yank owners know nothing about football after he wins a game after 6 successive defeats. He has also decided that he will no longer ask supporters to meet him at the training ground for a fight.

    Sincerely,

    Troy Stavers (woo hoo, now where is that reality train I used to talk about?)

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  16. Was rather hoping Pards would stay at Palace if only to see if he relegated them or not.
    Eric, Troy has the upper hand here mate. He will maintain that had Pards been allowed to stay they would of finished mid table. Average as Troy likes to point out. 🙄 Worse still, picture this, we get promoted, Ashley won’t loosen the purse strings for right players in Rafas eyes so Rafa walks or gets sacked and who comes back? yep you guessed it. Don’t forget he wasn’t sacked ,he walked away. Like I said, I’d preferred he’d stayed at Palace.

    Andy, very good reasoned piece mate. There is something very fishy about this whole episode imo. Wolves players who’s account don’t tally up, the ref being closer to Jon jo than the Wolves players in question and hearing zilch from Jon jo ? The insult itself ‘Smelly Arab ‘ ,who says that? an odd choice of insult and one that somehow doesn’t ring true somehow. Not just cause he’s our player but I don’t believe he said it tbh . If he’s been racist and it’s proved beyond doubt then fair enough but it seems a very muddy affair. The FA need to be utterly transparent about this, a mans reputation is at stake, it must show proof beyond doubt and not he said/he said ,that’s unacceptable. Finally, what of the constant comments made to Shelvey throughout the game and in general at most matches by opo fans in regards to his disability/illness regarding his loss of hair? Are we saying it is acceptable to mock a persons illness and call them a freak ? As the parent of a disabled child who gets constantly stared at and hears the term mong often thrown about I find it disturbing to say the least. If the FA want to find Jon jo on flimsy evidence then they can start fining clubs when there fans hurl abuse towards him because of the way he looks, after all they would if he were black and fans were insulting him for the way he looks. Too much double standards in football .

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  17. Sharpy17: Ice – sorry mate, wasn’t ignoring you I missed that post.
    Yeah he was 4 last month and is a huge part of the family now like.I never grew up with a dog, so never really got it – but this little bugger is mint.Him and my son get on great, infact asI write this he’s asleep on his knee on the sofa while he watches ‘how to train your dragon’.

    I know what you mean about holidays though.But the in-laws had to have their dog put down in the same week ours had his final injections as a pup & they didn’t want to get another – the grand kids keep them busy now.But they are happy to have ours while we are away.

    What did you do for Malta trips when you had a dog mate?

    thanks mate,we took turns going to Malta as wife would not allow anyone to look after them 😥

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  18. Kimtoon:
    Ice, get yourself down the rescue centre and get a doggy, you know you want too

    😆 😆 the wife wants a pup,one that does not shed much,now and again still finding hair from last ones

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  19. Kimtoon: I agree with your sentiments on Jonjo but not Troy 🙂 I said yesterday that this is a case of a man’s reputation and they have to have more than contradictory accounts from Wolves players to convict him. Let’s see what they have when the written ruling comes out. Also, as I said yesterday, they are stuck because the minimum ban is 5 games so it is that or nothing. If they are judging him because there is “no smoke without fire” they are just as big of idiots as I think they are.

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  20. Im making no judgement until all the evidence is known. In the meantime, I’d like to say that whatever you think about Andy’s views within this piece, one thing is for certain – it’s a great bit of writing. Well done son.

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  21. I agree with you Sham that Andy has written a very good piece. I don’t agree with everything but he lays out his case very well.

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  22. Shelvey has 7 days to decide if he wants to appeal. Hope he takes his time and his head is on straight for boxing day. Not sure if Rafa will even pick him under the circumstances? Not because he thinks he is guilty but because of his state of mind.

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  23. Actually, I think Rafa has a hard decision. If he leaves Shelvey out it could be construed that he and NUFC have accepted the charges.

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  24. Kim I saw Pardew once at a service station on the way to London. I didn’t even say a word to him or ask for a autograph or have my picture taken with him like Troy probably would. I think most Newcastle fan’s wanted him sacked at the time. I remember you telling me your dream about him in your garden. Although he could end up back here if Rafa walks or goes to a bigger club.

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  25. icedog: the wife wants a pup,one that does not shed much,now and again still finding hair from last ones

    Ice , Aw, it’s horrible when you keep finding hairs after they are gone 🙁 I kept finding fur from Mini after she passed, she was 17 aqnd it was so upsetting.

    Stem, aye, the thought of the return of the arrogant one sends shivers down the spine. 👿

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  26. You know there have been studies done that eye-witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, especially as time passes, like the 3 months since Shelvey’s alleged offense. You would think it would be simple, but it has been proven that the mind plays tricks, and that without corroboration eyewitness accounts are as often wrong as they are right. If the Ref didn’t put it in his report and he was closer than the Wolves players, I don’t see that they have a case.

    Will we ever see the written report or will all parties keep it secret?

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  27. Thanks guys!

    And yeah, on the topic of ‘smelly Arab’, it’s a throwback to an insult my dear old Nan may have used in the 70’s. This is why this whole saga is very fishy as others have said.

    Kimtoon:
    Was rather hoping Pards would stay at Palace if only to see if he relegated them or not.Eric, Troy has the upper hand here mate. He will maintain that had Pards been allowed to stay they would of finished mid table. Average as Troy likes to point out. Worse still, picture this, we get promoted, Ashley won’t loosen the purse strings for right players in Rafas eyes so Rafa walks or gets sacked and who comes back? yep you guessed it. Don’t forget he wasn’t sacked ,he walked away. Like I said, I’d preferred he’d stayed at Palace.

    Andy, very good reasoned piece mate. There is something very fishy about this whole episode imo. Wolves players who’s account don’t tally up, the ref being closer to Jon jo than the Wolves players in question and hearing zilch from Jon jo ? The insult itself ‘Smelly Arab ‘ ,who says that? an odd choice of insult and one that somehow doesn’t ring true somehow. Not just cause he’s our player but I don’t believe he said it tbh . If he’s been racist and it’s proved beyond doubt then fair enough but it seems a very muddy affair. The FA need to be utterly transparent about this, a mans reputation is at stake, it must show proof beyond doubt and not he said/he said ,that’s unacceptable. Finally, what of the constant comments made to Shelvey throughout the game and in general at most matches by opo fans in regards to his disability/illness regarding his loss of hair? Are we saying it is acceptable to mock a persons illness and call them a freak ? As the parent of a disabled child who gets constantly stared at and hears the term mong often thrown about I find it disturbing to say the least. If the FA want to find Jon jo on flimsy evidence then they can start fining clubs when there fans hurl abuse towards him because of the way he looks, after all they would if he were black and fans were insulting him for the way he looks. Too much double standards in football .

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  28. Eric, I can actually attest to this first hand….

    A few weeks ago, a couple of lads pulled a knife out on me near my house. Luckily, thanks to some very loud girlish calls for help on my part, I left with my possessions and spleen intact (they did a runner once people came out their houses to investigate). But after calling the police and them taking a statement, I suddenly started doubting every facet of the story I was telling them.

    ‘Was the first guy wearing a black cap, or did I imagine it?’

    ‘I think the knife blade was about 30cm long but maybe it was smaller.’

    ‘Could I be absolutely certain that both lads had a blade? I thought they did but now I’m not so sure.’

    Strangely, the only things I could be completely sure of was that there was two of them and that one of them had a knife (which I saw).

    Eric Sykes:
    Science on the unreliability of eye-witness accounts:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

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  29. It has only been a couple of hours but The Guardian website has 744 comments on the Pardew sacking. They only ever get that many on Man U or Liverpool threads normally and I am sure there will be more to come. The return of Toad of Toad Hall may also account for it.

    I don’t see many of Pards’ ex-player and Fleet Street hacks questioning this sacking even though they have been behind him all the way until today, some touting him for the England job only a few months ago.

    Also, I see NUFC are being criticised for mentioning the sacking of their former Manager. The former Manager who went out of way to mention NUFC in many interviews over the past 2 years and to absolve himself of any blame.

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  30. ERIC/ANDY, i once watched a show on tv about why eye wittnesses in court cases should be not be taken as a true account,they placed ten people ten feet away from a sercuity van two men then spent four minutes to rob it,each person was then interviewed not two people had the same storey of what happened or even what clothes they had worn or what age they were,eye wittness be careful

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  31. I have nothing against Palace but I want them to struggle for the rest of the year and finish 4th bottom if they appoint Fat Sam. It would be so sweet if the Mackems then finished 3rd bottom. That’s my dream scenario anyway.

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  32. I know it’s not everyone’s view but I kinda agreed with Troy in that Pardew didn’t do that bad on the shoestring budget he had at NUFC and players getting sold.
    However that can not be said about his time at Palace. For a club their size it’s fair to say they sent big for him. They have some good players there and should be higher than they are – a lot of managers would fancy that squad I reckon.

    Pardews days were numbered when he suggested that the new American owners maybe don’t know enough about football – 4th bottom & 6 wins in 2016 … that doesn’t require a footballing genius like.

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  33. Palace are mad to hire Big Sam. Yes he has pedigree in the PL. However, given his very recent history, it is likely that some hack somewhere is sitting on some dirty filth from his past – just waiting for the right time to release it for maximum impact and sales.

    If you could details of 10 dirty deals Sam has made in the past, would you release it all at the same time, or hold some back for the future if you know you can have twice as much fun and sales?

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  34. I feel sorry for you lot in the UK now. You just know that after a month off that Pards is going to pop up as a pundit on Sky or BT and say what he finks. I will pencil in games for West Ham, NUFC and Palace as the most likely.

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  35. There was also that stuff about kick backs to Fat Sam’s Agent that were barely legal or perhaps just not a strong enough case to prosecute, knowing they would get ‘Arry the Bung’s lawyer to defend it.

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  36. I’m amazed at how many Palace were disappointed in the discuss when I was watching SSN earlier – it may be more balanced now they have spoken to more fans, but the ones that were on reckoned he should have had more time ?

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  37. Oh C’Mon Sharpy, you have to give me this day. Everything that I said would happen at Palace has happened. It went exactly according to script. Pardew said that he inherited a well drilled defense from Pulis. I said he would remake the team in his own image and go on one of his patented death spirals, as they tuned out his BS. The players recognised his out of date tactics, bizarre team selections and substitutions and his playing favourites and outcasts . He did me proud and even managed the worst record of all teams in the football league this year.

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  38. Looking after a dog for the inlaws whilst they in Florida.

    Saluki – Collie Cross. If anybody wants the most beautiful dog I’ve ever seen they can provide a good home. She is lovely but needs at least four or five miles a day and can run that at speed easily. Far to demanding for me, and the inlaws are in their eighties.

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  39. Premandup:
    Looking after a dog for the inlaws whilst they in Florida.

    Saluki – Collie Cross. If anybody wants the most beautiful dog I’ve ever seen they can provide a good home. She is lovely but needs at least four or five miles a day and can run that at speed easily. Far to demanding for me, and the inlaws are in their eighties.

    to many hairs for me,and my speed days are gone lol,good luck make sure its a good home you find

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  40. Eric Sykes:
    Oh C’Mon Sharpy, you have to give me this day. Everything that I said would happen at Palace has happened. It went exactly according to script. Pardew said that he inherited a well drilled defense from Pulis. I said he would remake the team in his own image and go on one of his patented death spirals, as they tuned out his BS. The players recognised his out of date tactics, bizarre team selections and substitutions and his playing favourites and outcasts . He did me proud and even managed the worst record of all teams in the football league this year.

    This day ? – you’ll be dining out on this for longer than any one day mate ?????

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  41. Sharpy: I wont mention Pards much unless… Troy gets on, Gashley comments or Pardew gets in the papers or on TV to make excuses/comment on other teams or NUFC.

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  42. So he is guilty of racism then. Does not necessarily mean he is a racist. He may well have just bitten andsaid something stupid in the heat of the moment. Either way, he has done wrong and deserves his punishment. Unfortunately Newcastle gets punished at the same time. He deserves to be in the dog house with fans for putting us in this position and putting our good run at risk. I don’t think it means he needs sacking or turning into a pantomime villain though.

    What I don’t like is his statement claiming he did not say whatever it is he is claimed to have said. If he is innocent, he would be fighting it, end of.

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  43. Shamrock:
    So he is guilty of racism then. Does not necessarily mean he is a racist. He may well have just bitten andsaid something stupid in the heat of the moment. Either way, he has done wrong and deserves his punishment. Unfortunately Newcastle gets punished at the same time. He deserves to be in the dog house with fans for putting us in this position and putting our good run at risk. I don’t think it means he needs sacking or turning into a pantomime villain though.

    What I don’t like is his statement claiming he did not say whatever it is he is claimed to have said. If he is innocent, he would be fighting it, end of.

    Agree Sham, But I would like to see a full transcript of the findings . Rafa has backed him all the way and yes I know you would say he would with him being our player but all the same Rafa doesn’t strike me as a guy who knowingly backs a racist.

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  44. Sham we will have to agree to disagree. I think this is pure pragmatism and realism on the part of NUFC. They know that appeals in this type of situation never work so are trying to draw a line under it. If it was me, I still would have contested it out of principle.

    We still don’t know the facts and if we ever see them maybe I will change my mind. I doubt it though 🙂

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  45. At least Rafa is not put in the situation of choosing a player when he doesn’t know where his head is at.

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  46. FOR NORCAL TOON: it just flashed up on my TV that NUFC are on live on BEin Sports on Monday starting 2.30pm ET.

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  47. Why would the club want to be put in the position of being seen to support a player guilty of racism? If they believed he was innocent, they would surely fight it all the way to the court of arbitration? It’s not exactly good for the club image, brand, or future recruitment prospects?

    You can apply the same argument to Shelvey himself. He will lose out on sponsors and potential International caps. It will push his value down and will push his earning potential down. And then there is the simple morality of the issue. I as a human being would be ashamed and outraged to have a racism tag forced upon me when it was not deserved and would do everything to fight it. Why would he not do the same? Just lay down and take it on the chin, even though he is ‘innocent’? Pull the other one.

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  48. From: The Chronicle:

    “Shelvey continues to maintain his innocence and says he did not use the term that Wolves players claim was aimed at Romain Saiss during September’s 2-0 defeat. And United say he has their full support.”

    Why would the club let him make a statement and continue to give their support if they thought he was guilty? It is a pragmatic decision because they know how these tribunals/panels work.

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  49. The club is in a very difficult position now, so it makes sense to say they believe he is innocent because he says he is innocent – but they won’t push it because deep down they know they will look like fools. Look at the recent Sunderland debacle with the child rapist. Where preserving league status and millions of pounds is concerned, clubs make questionable decisions.

    Now explain away Shelveys lack of fight? Saying he is being g pragmatic does not cut it. He will lose a ridiculous amount of money and his career will be stunted. Oh and he’ll forever be branded a racist. Why would he not fight that all they way?

    We will agree to disagree as you say Eric, but he is guilty and we should not be making excuses for him as far as I’m concerned.

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  50. Now that that is over and with 9 days rest, here is the team for Monday:

    Darlow

    Anita Lascelles Clark Dummett

    Ritchie Hayden Colback Gouffy

    Diame

    Gayle

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  51. All the findings should be made public, then there it is, out there and we all now the full facts instead of being drip fed tit bits.

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  52. Agreed Kim. If there is a public interest in long bans and big fines for this type of behaviour, then there should be a public interest in disclosing the full facts. It would also double up as an education for future generations of footballers and fans to know where exactly the line is drawn…

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  53. Sham: I also said all along I thought the panel would find against him and that if it was contested it would not be overturned. I see the logic in not contesting it but not admitting guilt, but I, like you, would have tried to clear my name. Even though he was only convicted by a kangaroo court it will still hurt him with sponsors, but not with his career at NUFC or other teams. I know Luis Suarez is supremely talented and it is therefore not a direct comparison but he moved to Barcelona after his 8 match ban for supposed racist abuse.

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  54. It is strange that Big Fat Sam sent the American owners of Palace a dossier of their players and analysis of this years performances as well as who he would look at in the transfer window. Was he invited to do this or was he undermining a fellow manager whilst he was still in his job?

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  55. Pardew sacked?!?! I last saw him pointing to his chairman after securing 1 win in 4 seasons.
    Gutted tbh, I said last season I want him to have a full season at Palace to show us what’s hes made of over a full season and his squad…. he didn’t even last until Xmas ? and they face relegation? Pards for England my arse!!

    Troy, 2-0 m8. Pardew is ****e and I said it will get better at the toon after SM even IF we get relegated…

    Clarky apparently being headhunted for the Palace job…if El Tel or Hoddle knock them back 😛

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