A message to the misinformed pundits – I hope Savage & Sutton read this & respond…

The Steve Bruce media propaganda machine has been working overtime recently. The ex-players, pundits and so called experts who range from the misinformed to the irrelevant and clearly don’t watch us play, have all been coming out of the woodwork to defend their mate “Brucey”, while simultaneously insulting our fan base without any facts to back up their argument. It really is becoming a parody of itself.  

After Mark Lawrenson mistook our displeasure  at watching Bruce spend more money than any manager in our history, yet consistently continue to take the team backwards as some kind of arrogant entitlement to annual Champions League football, we now have Robbie Savage penning a piece in The Mirror in which he claims Bruce deserves credit for the “solid if unspectacular job” he’s doing at our beloved club. 

Well, he’s half right, but we’ll get into the numbers behind that “solid” nonsense later. I’m not going to bother to pick apart his article, you can do that yourself. I’ll stick to something Bruce’s media pals don’t deal in, which is facts, but here’s a link to the article: (You can read it here.)

What’s more, is that Savage has posted this article on his Twitter page and has written above the link “Come on then Newcastle fans, please read, I’ve tried to understand the situation this week?”.

In fairness his does state that with the attacking talent we have, we should be more entertaining, yet he someone manages to do that while passive-aggressively making us feel that we’re lucky to have Bruce because we’ve been relegated twice in 11 years. So that being said, I’ll respond to your kind request of “come on then Newcastle fans” Robbie. I’m more than happy to. 

In case you aren’t familiar with Savage’s media work, he presents BBC Five Live’s 606, where him and fellow agitator Chris Sutton ask fans to call in, and then if they don’t agree with them, they all too often arrogantly, ignorantly and incorrectly belittle them for their opinion. When they are both presented with facts and have no way out they both resort to a “we know more than you” motif. It isn’t just Newcastle fans by the way.

I’ve always been curious about Savage’s eagerness to leap to Bruce’s defence. I wonder if it’s born out of guilt that back in January 2005, he forced a move to Blackburn from Bruce’s Birmingham City, while the Blues were neck deep in a relegation battle.

(Spoiler alert, they lost said battle and went down). 

Maybe after letting Bruce down 15 years ago, he now feels the need to protect him from all of the big bad Newcastle fans and our whimsical pie in the sky dreams of ambition and tactical nous being present in our football club’s manager.

So let’s look at the numbers of Steve Bruce’s Newcastle, and really try to understand why it is that we don’t rate Bruce, his own dreadful record over 20 odd years of management not withstanding. 

Last season, his first season, despite the media using such adjectives as “outstanding”, “wonderful”, and “excellent” to name a few when describing Bruce’s performance, we finished on less points than the season before that. We also conceded more goals and chances, scored less goals and made less chances, had less possession, and our goalkeeper made over 30% more saves than the previous season. The most in the league in fact. Steve Bruce made us a worse team in his first season in every possible aspect. While there are many caveats to this, and some aren’t all down to Bruce, like the loss of Rondon and Perez, this is a cold hard fact. 

Looking at this seasons numbers in terms of footballing metrics shows some even more alarming and unsurprisingly consistent declines under the guidance of Bruce. The following information came from The Athletic’s chief analyst Tom Worville, who appeared on last weeks episode of the brilliant Pod On The Tyne podcast, and it makes for interestingly grim listening and reading. 

Firstly in attack this season, we have had 43 shots on goal this season. The lowest in the PL so far this season. 

We’re averaging 7.7 attempts at goal per game, which is down from 10.5 last season. Some rare positive news is our expected goals is actually up from 20th last season to 15th this term, which can be simply attributed to Callum Wilson getting on the end of chances instead of Joelinton. 

Our speed in transition from defence to attack is way down, we have gone from one of the quickest to the slowest. Almiron’s absence and ASM playing out of position, both Bruce decisions, play big parts in this according to Worville and The Athletic’s excellent pair Taylor Payne and Chris Waugh. 

(Side note Robbie, your mate Sutton ridiculed a Newcastle fan last week who said Saint Maximin didn’t suit a number 10 role and is more effective out wide. This is a common viewpoint held amongst almost all knowledgeable NUFC fans, yet Sutton told him to “get real” and that he didn’t know better than Bruce. Well if you could pass the message on to Chris that 3 other objective and knowledgeable journalists who know better than him respectively and factually agree with us, I’d be grateful).

Moving on, our possession in the final 3rd is down to 29% per game, which is not only the worst in the PL this season, it’s the worst managed by a PL team at this stage of the season for 5 years.

Our possession in the final 3rd also accounts for just 5% for our total possession of the ball so far this season, which is absolutely woeful. It also shows how poor we are at pressing the opposition high up the pitch. In fact we are the worst in the league at turning over possession in the oppositions half and turning it into chances. 

As for the defence, it’s worth remembering that we had the best back-line outside the top 6 in both 2017/18 and 2018/19. Bruce managed to get that down to 13th last year with essentially the same personnel, certainly at centre back, all while Martin Dubravka was the busiest goalkeeper in the league. However it’s this season’s metrics which tell a thoroughly depressing tale of just how much we are actually regressing. 

We have conceded more attempts at goal than any other PL team this season, and Karl Darlow and Fede Fernandez have made more saves and blocks respectively than any other goalkeeper or defender. Now while this has been reported several times and is hardly surprising, this following fact is simply astonishing. 

I think a common theme amongst our fan base is the annoyance that whatever nonsense Bruce spouts in his pressers, or whatever formation or system we are apparently playing, the only game plan we can see is one of allowing the opposition as much of the ball as they want, and hope they don’t score. This lacklustre and passive approach is summed up by the fact that on average, we allow the opposition 21 passes of the ball in our own half before winning back possession. 

21. 

To put that into context, think about how often you see Newcastle United footballers make 21 consecutive passes of the football to each other in the opposition’s half.If we make 5 I’m up off my chair, but 21?! In the Premier League? I’d be popping the Dom Pérignon man. You surely will not be surprised to learn that this statistic also places us at the bottom of the pile, by some distance. 

So there we have Steve Bruce’s Newcastle United in irrefutable numbers. It’s also irrefutable that he is a proven failure as a manager, with the worst win percentage of any PL manager that has overseen 100 games or more. It’s also a mathematical certainty that teams with these kinds of numbers eventually come unstuck. We’ve won 8 of the last 31 PL games, which is fortunately spread over 2 seasons. If that record was in 1 season, we would almost certainly get relegated. 

Bruce has no plan A, let alone a plan B. There is no ethos, no blueprint and no conviction in his selections. Not one player has improved under Bruce’s tenure, not one, while several have gone backwards. 

If we have a bad game, he simply throws the players under the bus, blames the keyboard warriors for making his job harder, and then rips it all up and starts again, which shows a lack of confidence in his own ability if anything.

Steve Bruce’s Newcastle United side is a dreadful football team that contains good football players, and is floating on an unexplainable tide of luck, and unconventional and unsustainable football that ultimately is only going to end one way. Maybe not this year, but eventually. There are tactically more astute managers in League One who would get more out of this squad of players, and believe me we know, we’ve watched first hand in the last calendar year as Rochdale, Oxford United and more recently Newport County ran rings round us at times, and had our backs to the wall, forcing us to two replays and a penalty shootout respectively. 

So now, we await next week for Friday’s press conference where Bruce will blame everyone but himself for the pathetic defeat at Southampton, then likely employ his 6th formation of the season against Chelsea due to the players apparently not being good enough to play how he wants. It’s nonsense that any fan of any club Bruce has ever managed will testify to. 

So “come on” Robbie Savage, did you really try to understand? 

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128 thoughts on “A message to the misinformed pundits – I hope Savage & Sutton read this & respond…

  1. Some interesting data on where people catch corona virus. It shows that 18,3% catch it at supermarkets. Obviously, they need to stay open but perhaps there should be stricter rules.

    You contrast this with restaurants where the infection rate is 1% and 1.7% for Pubs.

    The Govt should be taking notice of this data. Maybe pubs dont need to close, because this will cause some of them to close for good. They have closed them in Chicago as well but I bet the spread is probably similar the UK. I have been inside at a couple since this all started. They put plexi-glass at the bar, and removed about half the seats and tables so people could social distance. Also, drinks were brought by servers who wore masks and gloves.

    Doing these things in the UK may help pubs to reopen. This may sound like a frivilous suggestion when rates generally are so high, but I was a bit surprised to see how few cases were due to gatherings in restauarants and bars. You cant say it is totally safe but after this total lock down I dont see why they cannot reopen. I bet there will be people crying that they shouldnt though.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/supermarkets-most-common-place-catch-19313040

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  2. I actually havent been to a supermarket in 6 months. Amazon will shop and deliver for free. This includes booze. I pay $10 a month for Prime anyway and this is included. All I pay is a small tip to the delivery guy who Amazon insist were masks and gloves. So, instead of seeing 100 people in the supermarket I see 1 Amazon driver. This is on top of not having to drive to get there and do my own shopping.

    It takes about 10 minutes on the app to order and they can even leave it at the porch. Why wouldnt I do this. I was anyway before CV-19 but this just makes it nonsensical for me to even go to any supermarket, ever.

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  3. Eric – this is the whole point. The places were the majority of this virus is caught is in the places we can’t shut. So why the hell we have shut all these other business’ is totally beyond me. Truly is. It seems to me that either the government or the scientists haven’t taken much notice to the facts they can’t get passed their own opinions.

    I see it’s already started. The people and in particular the unions up in arms that public sector workers will be having a pay freeze. What was the unions response? Predictably that all public sector workers deserve a pay rise even after the government have spent billions and billions on a national lockdown, we’re borrowing a mere £450b a year to fill the deficit and our debt is now circa 105% of GDP!

    I knew this would happen. People have short memories.

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  4. Bris, Aus and NZ have both done well at containment but what happens when you fully open up again ?
    What is the strategy for going forward? Will they keep borders closed until a vaccine is rolled out ?

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  5. Stuart79: A country with 20m people in a country the size of Australia is a natural geographical advantage.

    Australia might be a big place but the population is comparatively condensed. For example Brisbane is about half the size of the whole North East region with a similar number of people. Distances between cities might be large but they are not so far apart in a plane … and people still have cars.

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  6. Stu, if anyone deserves a pay rise after all this it’s the doctors, nurses and paramedics on the front line, many of whom have lost their lives just for doing their job.

    Eric, thanksgiving will turn out to be a massive killer this year, heart breaking but true. I suspect christmas will have the same effect.
    I have been having quiet Christmas’s for a few years now, it’s normally just me the lad and the girl since my parents died.
    We don’t have turkey (vegan ) daughter and i just buy a small chicken breast for the lad. My Christmas shop isn’t much different to a normal shop bar a few extra snacks and a tin of sweets for the coffee table. I look at the piled up overloaded trollies and think how are they ever gonna eat/get through all that- Madness.
    I do spoil the kids though with gifts, though this year it’ll be mostly cash and what i can get online though.
    No way am I mixing with loads of folk in the shops, hate it at the best of times .

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  7. Stu, have to agree on the non compliance thing, I’m sick of seeing people just stroll into shops without sanitizing hands and basket handles cause i know they will go on to touch and put back stock which others will then touch. 👿

    Then there are the ones who lean over in front of you to get an item 🙄

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  8. kimtoon: What is the strategy for going forward? Will they keep borders closed until a vaccine is rolled out ?

    Kim, now that there has been virtually no community transmission for weeks, borders are opening up everywhere, and have been open in some places for a few weeks. There are some places that are identified as hot spots and we are told not to go there or to self isolate for 14 days if been there.

    Just recently a small outbreak happened in Adelaide. The place was immediately shut down for 6 days, though it turned out that it was not needed as a person infected lied about his circumstances and caused a massive breakdown in track and tracing methods. They are back to normal after a few days.

    So if there’s an outbreak – we shut it down hard. It seems the only way.

    We’ve been successful despite our federal government not because of it. The state premiers defied the government and closed the borders against the federal govs will. They took their orders from the Chief Medical Officer in each state. There was even court action against the states for unconstitutional behaviour – which was dismissed.

    Had our federal government had its way, we’d have been in the same **** as you guys.

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  9. Kimtoon: Thanksgiving is always the big holiday here because it is the 3rd Thursday of Nov so people take a long weekend. Bigger than Xmas. I said earlier that the estimate for people travelling is 50 million (the population of England). That is insane. The ICU (intensive care unit) beds are full so I dont know what these people plan on doing if they give it to their parents. Just imagine that, how could you live with yourself knowing you infected your 75 year old mam or dad because you couldnt put this aside for just this year. The vaccines are on their way so it is one year only.

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  10. Brisvegas: Kim, now that there has been virtually no community transmission for weeks, borders are opening up everywhere, and have been open in some places for a few weeks. There are some places that are identified as hot spots and we are told not to go there or to self isolate for 14 days if been there.

    Just recently a small outbreak happened in Adelaide. The place was immediately shut down for 6 days, though it turned out that it was not needed as a person infected lied about his circumstances and caused a massive breakdown in track and tracing methods. They are back to normal after a few days.

    So if there’s an outbreak – we shut it down hard. It seems the only way.

    We’ve been successful despite our federal government not because of it. The state premiers defied the government and closed the borders against the federal govs will. They took their orders from the Chief Medical Officer in each state. There was even court action against the states for unconstitutional behaviour – which was dismissed.

    Had our federal government had its way, we’d have been in the same **** as you guys.

    Wow, interesting. My ex sister in law lives in Tauranga in NZ, she is well impressed with Jacinda Ardern. As an Island we really should of been better at dealing with it, I will never understand why we didn’t close borders quickly at the start, we still had flights coming in during first lockdown . You could see what was happening in Wuhan and later Spain and Italy and we still dilly dallied .

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  11. kimtoon:
    Stu, if anyone deserves a pay rise after all this it’sthe doctors, nurses and paramedics on the front line, many of whom have lost their lives just for doing their job.

    Eric, thanksgiving will turn out to be a massive killer this year, heart breaking but true. I suspect christmas will have the same effect.
    I have been having quiet Christmas’s for a few years now, it’s normally just me the lad and the girl since my parents died.
    We don’t have turkey (vegan ) daughter and i just buy a small chicken breast for the lad. My Christmas shop isn’t much different to a normal shop bar a few extra snacks and a tin of sweets for the coffee table. I look at the piled up overloaded trollies and think how are they ever gonna eat/get through all that- Madness.
    I do spoil the kids though with gifts, though this year it’ll be mostly cash and what i can get online though.
    No way am I mixing with loads of folk in the shops, hate it at the best of times .

    Kim – I don’t disagree about doctors & nurses – but I think it’s a real f@ck you to police & teachers.

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  12. Bris – would you say most people have bought into the approach & are sticking to the rules? (including the politicians).

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  13. Getting back to pubs. That is pretty much what they shut down immediatly over here as soon as the infection rates reach a certain percent. That is despite the measures pubs have put in that I described above. They dont do any contact tracing over here so I think they must have assumed the pubs would be spreaders. The UK info debunks that.

    I am not even saying that the pubs should all reopen but they are not the epicentre of this disease that Govts and even scientists had led us to believe.

    There’s been so much misinformation, bad science and incompetence on both sides of the Atlantic. No wonder we are all confused as to what to do, especially with Trump insisting it was all a hoax. A lot of his followers are still not wearing masks at large gatherings. That would seem to me to be a simple thing.

    The idiots Drs over here announced last week that masks protected others but ALSO those wearing the masks. They had been saying up until then that it was ONLY for the protection of others. How fcn stupid can they be. These things obviously stopped germs coming in as well as going out. I have known this from the start, so why didnt they? It might have made more people wear masks. A lot of people are inherently selfish so appeal to that part of their nature not the non-existent altruism!!!

    I just cant believe it took them 10 months to say masks are protection for the wearer and those they come into contact with. Shows you the complete incompentence.

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  14. Eric Sykes:
    Kimtoon: Thanksgiving is always the big holiday here because it is the 3rd Thursday of Nov so people take a long weekend. Bigger than Xmas. I said earlier that the estimate for people travelling is 50 million (the population of England). That is insane. The ICU (intensive care unit) beds are full so I dont know what these people plan on doing if they give it to their parents. Just imagine that, how could you live with yourself knowing you infected your 75 year old mam or dad because you couldnt put this aside for just this year. The vaccines are on their way so it is one year only.

    Exactly mate, it’s the same with holidays. Folk here kicking off cause they missed their two weeks in the sun ffs. It’s one year and there are beautiful places in the UK to stay at if you want a holiday.
    As i said before i’m not sure many could cope if we went to war, that involves massive sacrifice and food rations and judging by the selfishness and avarice witnessed at times this year we wouldn’t cope like our forefathers did. The same generation that a lot are now happy to see shut away so they can carry on partying in many cases. The irony is lost on them that the freedom they have to party in the first place is because of the sacrifices that generation made previously.

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  15. Sharpy , Aye, police and Teachers too I agree. And Carers at care homes too for that matter and what about shop staff, they have been on the front line often coping with abusive customers without any protection or screens at the start as well.

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  16. I dont/didnt even go to the pub that often, maybe once a month, I just think that these new facts from contact tracing in the UK show the Politicians and Scientists didnt know what they were doing from the get go.

    The mask recommendations are emblematic of this failure. It is just common sense that the N95 masks with multilayers of filters and gauze would protect you AND others. How the hell did it take them 10 months to come up with this genius discovery 🙂

    It is also common sense that a thin cotton bandana over you face would do little for you or others. Better than nothing? Just!

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  17. Sharpy17: Kim – I don’t disagree about doctors & nurses – but I think it’s a real f@ck you to police & teachers.

    Sharpy – Doctors and nurses are exempt from the pay freeze and teachers got a very generous pay increase last year.

    But let’s not hide from the fact that we knew this was coming when the economy was shut down which cost us over £200b. People were warned. Would you not rather be a police officer than be a waiter, bar staff or work in a travel industry these days? They’ve lost their jobs not a 2% pay increase.

    Everyone was warned….

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  18. Eric, I think they knew fine well that masks were life saving but we had such a shortage of ppe, i think they downplayed their effectiveness so as to stop mass panic buying.
    I routinely get ppe for Lewis carers but couldn’t get a box of gloves or masks or aprons for love or money at the start of lockdown. Luckily my local ironmonger who lives opposite me got me some gloves and hand gel until the NHS got some to me.

    Like many other countries we were totally unprepared. I do have some sympathy as i do think any government would of struggled but this lot are pretty poor at acting quickly and awful communicators . They also seem incapable of following their own advice 🙄

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  19. kimtoon:
    Eric, I think they knew fine well that masks were life saving but we had such a shortage of ppe, i think they downplayed their effectivenessso as to stop mass panic buying.
    I routinely get ppe for Lewis carers but couldn’t get a box of gloves or masks or aprons for love or money at the start of lockdown. Luckily my local ironmonger who lives opposite me got me some gloves and hand gel until the NHS got some to me.

    Like many other countries we were totally unprepared.I do have some sympathy as i do think any government would of struggled but this lot are pretty poor at acting quickly and awful communicators . They also seem incapable of following their own advice

    Kim – How are these masks life savers? Since it’s been law for everyone to wear them the cases have shot through the roof.

    You’ve also made an extraordinary allegation against the chief scientist who said make don’t make much difference. You’ve said he said that because we didn’t have enough ppe even though it could, in your view have killed people. Big allegation against a medical officer.

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  20. Some people must have been ignoring all advice over here. I think that was partly due to Trump saying it was a hoax and the optics of him and his cronies not social distancing and not wearing masks. Basically saying “Bring It On” in that dumbsh!t (a minority of them) macho American way.

    But now cases have quadrupled in 3 weeks. Quickly approaching 200,000 a day. That would be the whole of Newcastle Metropolitan area in 2 days. You may think that is fearmongering and the US is a big place. It is only 5 times the population of the UK though and this is overwheming every state now.

    But, lets just 50 million of us travel to meet elderly relatives next Thursday (Thanksgiving).

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  21. Stu, How much of a rise will MP’s give themselves though.

    Teachers, now have the huge task of trying to bring a whole generation of kids up to normal education standards once this is over. So much study time has been lost and kids can fall behind very quickly, especially in the formative years.
    My parents kept moving when i was at infants and junior school and it played havoc with my education as often i was playing catch up when i started a new school class. I put my foot down by the time i reached senior school, refused to change schools when we moved out the area.
    My standard of English and Math was and still is awful .

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  22. For that matter even if the government said masks don’t work just because we didn’t have enough and they knew they did that’s still the same as saying government were willingly killing people. Staggering!

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  23. Nobody ever wants to answer this question but I’ll give it another go:

    We’re told to wash tour hands, socially distance and wear masks. Yet cases have been going up and up. Why is that? Is it that people don’t do what they’re told or is it that what we’re told to do doesn’t work? Which is it?

    What we do know is that the only thing that seems to dramatically reduce the case numbers is lockdowns and that’s not sustainable.

    Actually the tiered system was flat lining the cases and in my opinion that’s the very definition of living with it which we’re told we must do.

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  24. Stuart: I think it is common sense that GOOD masks help. Why would surgeons wear them otherwise? As to these latest spikes? I dont think they have been adequately explained (in any countires). They had said the cold weather and corona virus fatigue are a factor but perhaps it is just basic ignorance? I think the Thanksgiving plans of 50 million Americans prove this.

    Still, I am shocked at the levels this has reached in such a short time over here. The numbers were basically flat for new infections and have quadrupled in a month.

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  25. Stu, i think the medical officers say what they are told to an extent, toe the party line if you like.
    They all knew masks would help us, the fact is we didn’t have enough to go round.
    Why are they life savers ? because they help stop droplet spread and people from touching their faces. Also doctors and nurses wouldn’t be wearing them if they were not effective in protecting them.
    The cases are rising because people don’t wear them, don’t socially distance or wash their hands and don’t self isolate when they should. They also reuse the same disposable masks or don’t wash the cloth ones enough to make them effective.

    How did it ever make sense to run around trying to get PPE for our NHS whilst telling the rest of us we didn’t need masks.
    Funny how once we had enough PPE the advice on wearing masks changed.

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  26. kimtoon:
    Stu, How much of a rise will MP’s give themselves though.

    Teachers,now have the huge task of trying to bring a whole generation of kids up to normal education standards once this is over. So much study time has been lost and kids can fall behind very quickly, especially in the formative years.
    My parents kept moving when i was at infants and junior school and it played havoc with my education as often i was playing catch up when i started a new school class. I put my foot down by the time i reached senior school, refused to change schools when we moved out the area.
    My standard of English and Math was and still is awful .

    MP’s don’t decide whether they get a pay rise. It’s completely out of their hands but actually I’d agree that they shouldn’t have one but many give their rises to charity.

    Teachers had a big pay increase recently. The government are skint you knew this would happen – you wanted and backed lockdown and you were told what the consequences would be. I’m not surprised you’re now complaining that some public sector workers won’t be getting a pay increase even though you were told about the consequences

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  27. kimtoon:
    Stu, i think the medical officers say what they are told to an extent, toe the party line if you like.
    They all knew masks would help us, the fact is we didn’t have enough to go round.
    Why are they life savers ? because they help stop droplet spread and people from touching their faces. Also doctors and nurses wouldn’t be wearing them if they were not effective in protecting them.
    The cases are rising because people don’t wear them, don’t socially distance or wash their hands and don’t self isolate when they should. They also reuse the same disposable masks or don’t wash the cloth ones enough to make them effective.

    How did it ever make sense to run around trying to get PPE for our NHS whilst telling the rest of us we didn’t need masks.
    Funny how once we had enough PPE the advice on wearing masks changed.

    You misunderstand why people become doctors. Only Harold Shipman would “say what they’re told” if it was going to kill people.

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  28. Stuart79:
    For that matter even if the government said masks don’t work just because we didn’t have enough and they knew they did that’s still the same as saying government were willingly killing people. Staggering!

    Ha ha, you do make me laugh Stu.
    This lot bought in a law that said Doctors could refuse to ventilate certain folk who caught covid , these folk wouldn’t even get the chance to try to fight it. People with disabilities, the elderly all deemed not worth fighting for. The same people who a year before would of been put on a ventilator if they were admitted with a severe chest infection. They wanted the new law in place for 2 years !! the other parties refused and made them reduce it to 6 months.

    But yeah the ever so caring conservatives, right oh .
    2 years, now that is staggering.

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  29. Stuart79: You misunderstand why people become doctors. Only Harold Shipman would “say what they’re told” if it was going to kill people.

    😆 😆 😆

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  30. Also, Stuart. The airlines all require masks over here. Even if you think they have limited effectiveness why wouldnt you wear them? And yet, Delta Airlines have said they have banned 550 passengers for life for refusing. They also had to deplane all passengers on a flight last week because a yahoo wouldnt wear a mask and got aggressive. It is like the drunk going to Benidorm in the 90s and spoiling it all for the whole plane.

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  31. I’m really interested in this Priti Patel issue that’s rearing it’s head. One persons bullying boss is another persons demanding boss. Must we now live in a world where bosses are meek little mice who never raise their voice or get angry? Interesting… I’ve always said I would never work in a kitchen as I wouldn’t be accept being shouted at every two minutes by the head chef. But many people are happy to be in that atmosphere. I wouldn’t call it bullying though.

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  32. Eric Sykes:
    Also, Stuart. The airlines all require masks over here. Even if you think they have limited effectiveness why wouldnt you wear them? And yet, Delta Airlines have said they have banned 550 passengers for life for refusing. They also had to deplane all passengers on a flight last week because a yahoo wouldnt wear a mask and got aggressive. It is like the drunk going to Benidorm in the 90s and spoiling it all for the whole plane.

    Same over here, Eric. I haven’t said they don’t work. I was just making the point to Kim that it was the medical people saying they didn’t make that much difference. I find it odd that scientists didn’t know whether they work just as a general rule even before Covid.

    Kim seems to think they did know they worked but decided to say they didn’t because there was a world shortage.

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  33. kimtoon:

    You do seem to have a rather rose tinted view on life where everything should be perfect and hunky dory.

    Meanwhile back on planet earth difficult decisions need to be made. If the NHS was to be over run like we were told, tough decisions would need to be made and they would have been about prioritising patients based on survival chances. I think Italy that actually happened. I’m thankful we didn’t get to that point here but if we did it’s a decision that has to be made in the real world and not in a parallel universe where we had 10 million ventilators, 20 million nurses and 100m hospital beds.

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  34. I just ordered MORE masks. This is not getting better soon. It is going in 1 direction and will be exacerbated by Thanksgiving. I am doing this preemtively because I think the demand will outstrip the supply.

    I agree with fighting for individual freedoms for the most part, but this is just getting stupid. Wear a mask, what can it hurt. You risk getting thrown off a plane and being banned for life for something as stupid as this !!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

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  35. Stuart: I said above that if masks had no useful purpose then why would surgeons wear them? And washing hands. Have you ever watched any medical TV shows? They all scrub up before surgery to stop the spread of germs. My take is that even if they dont work fully to protect you, what’s the hurt?

    I did see a study that in infectious situations that those with masks got Covid at a rate of 3% and without 18%. Got no idea where they got the data from. But I repeat, why wouldnt you wear a mask, even if you do not believe fully what Drs and Politicans tell us.

    There is also mask shaming. I havent seen it personally but my guess is that there are confronations about people not wearing masks. My Mam is 78 and I think if someone was in line at the supermarket not wearing a mask I would say something. For myself, I would probably just switch lines, but if she was with me I would say something.

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  36. Stuart79: Sharpy – Doctors and nurses are exempt from the pay freeze and teachers got a very generous pay increase last year.

    But let’s not hide from the fact that we knew this was coming when the economy was shut down which cost us over £200b. People were warned. Would you not rather be a police officer than be a waiter, bar staff or work in a travel industry these days? They’ve lost their jobs not a 2% pay increase.

    Everyone was warned….

    Stu – to play devils advocate, would you not rather be a nurse or doctor then?!. I just think it’s wrong to single one group out over others.

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  37. Sharpy17:
    Bris – would you say most people have bought into the approach & are sticking to the rules? (including the politicians).

    Yes. Nobody wants to be locked down, but when you see progress you understand why it’s necessary. There’ll always be some who think their personal needs are more important than the health of the whole community, but generally speaking Aussies can feel justly proud of their efforts.

    A little while ago the whole of Victoria went through a long hard lock down. The whole country celebrated with them when it was over. The state leader did a fantastic job of holding his nerve against the combined forces of the federal government and the Murdoch Press.

    I’ve never been a fan of state governments and have often argued for them to be abolished. I’ve changed my mind since COVID-19. The pandemic has shown up a lot of things that were previously hidden. The state leaders – both Labor and Liberal – have done a great job.

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  38. So, looks like Dummett is not available and Miggy only got back at 11pm Thurs. Wonder if Bruce has heard of jetlag? Late fitness test for Wilson. That is insane as we will need him more after this game.

    Will wait for Olly’s team to comment more as this one has me flummoxed. I have already given up on the Chelsea game and we have more important tests after this where we can actually get points.

    Hope this comes back to bite me in terms of me throwing in the towel for this game.

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  39. Stuart79:
    Nobody ever wants to answer this question but I’ll give it another go:

    We’re told to wash tour hands, socially distance and wear masks. Yet cases have been going up and up. Why is that? Is it that people don’t do what they’re told or is it that what we’re told to do doesn’t work? Which is it?

    What we do know is that the only thing that seems to dramatically reduce the case numbers is lockdowns and that’s not sustainable.

    Actually the tiered system was flat lining the cases and in my opinion that’s the very definition of living with it which we’re told we must do.

    Stu – I agree with you that the tier system certainly didn’t seem to be failing in most parts of the Country. That’s one of the reasons I have a pop at Boris. He didn’t have to back bone to stand up against the media and scientists and hold his nerve.

    If he was going to lockdown, it should have been in Sept when they were calling for it. He ignored the advice then and went tiered, then the heat gets turned up a bit & he U-turns. I don’t know the answer to this, but he’s jumping from one camp to the next and getting nowhere fast.

    I think having opted for tier he should have rode it out a few more weeks to see if our curve continued to drop. I think Kim said their R rate has increased since lockdown – meaning the tier was more effective there too. He should have committed to it longer I think, but it was easier to manage and kept the media & opposition happy to lockdown.

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  40. Brisvegas: Yes. Nobody wants to be locked down, but when you see progress you understand why it’s necessary. There’ll always be some who think their personal needs are more important than the health of the whole community, but generally speaking Aussies can feel justly proud of their efforts.

    A little while ago the whole of Victoria went through a long hard lock down. The whole country celebrated with them when it was over. The state leader did a fantastic job of holding his nerve against the combined forces of the federal government and the Murdoch Press.

    I’ve never been a fan of state governments and have often argued for them to be abolished. I’ve changed my mind since COVID-19. The pandemic has shown up a lot of things that were previously hidden. The state leaders – both Labor and Liberal – have done a great job.

    Bris – thanks mate, yeah it sounds like Oz has adopted the very togetherness that Boris so desperately wants each time he addresses the nation.
    The trouble is it’s the very thing we are lacking to fight it as effectively as Oz.

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  41. Bris – also to hear you say that you didn’t trust the government before hand, but have changed your opinion, means your government have done the right thing. The have changed people’s opinions for the better.
    I honestly think the likes of the Dominic Cummings carry on and other examples of politicians not practicing what they preach has resulted in the absolute opposite in this Country.

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  42. I dont think that people fully understand how much the world has changed – and I dont mean Covid, I mean technology.

    You can order whatever presents you want for kids on Amazon. You can get decorations online, a tree. Grandparents can send presents for grandkids. I know Amazon giftwraps. The kids all know what they want anyway so you just tell the grandparents.

    You can do a virtual Xmas. Zoom, Skype etc… If the Grandparents dont have a device, they can get an Amazon Fire on Black Friday for like $50. It takes about 10 minutes to walk somebody through how to make a virtual call. Even a senior.

    You can order the groceries online. I know Tescos has that service.

    There are so many workarounds for this without having like a 5 day ignore Covid at Xmas. Plan a get together in March FFS and show the videos you took with your phone of the kids.

    Anything is better than infecting vulnerable people and there are so many mixed messages I just wouldnt risk it.

    The lines over here to get tests show you that people are worried, but you cant test 50 million people that plan to travel so you have to decide who you might infect. If you have older or vulnerable family, then call it off.

    I dont see this improving in the next month.

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  43. Eric Sykes:
    I dont think that people fully understand how much the world has changed – and I dont mean Covid, I mean technology.

    You can order whatever presents you want for kids on Amazon. You can get decorations online, a tree. Grandparents can send presents for grandkids. I know Amazon giftwraps. The kids all know what they want anyway so you just tell the grandparents.

    You can do a virtual Xmas. Zoom, Skype etc… If the Grandparents dont have a device, they can get an Amazon Fire on Black Friday for like $50. It takes about 10 minutes to walk somebody through how to make a virtual call. Even a senior.

    You can order the groceries online. I know Tescos has that service.

    There are so many workarounds for this without having like a 5 day ignore Covid at Xmas. Plan a get together in March FFS and show the videos you took with your phone of the kids.

    Anything is better than infecting vulnerable people and there are so many mixed messages I just wouldnt risk it.

    The lines over here to get tests show you that people are worried, but you cant test 50 million people that plan to travel so you have to decide who you might infect. If you have older or vulnerable family, then call it off.

    I dont see this improving in the next month.

    Agree on all that Eric.

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  44. Are we really going to late fitness test Callum, if we need to do that then he probably isn’t fully right.
    Why even risk him in a game we are likely to lose it anyway . 🙄

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  45. Sharpy17: Stu – to play devils advocate, would you not rather be a nurse or doctor then?!.I just think it’s wrong to single one group out over others.

    Well I suppose when you work for the government you are going to be singled out. There’ll be priorities I suppose. Maybe they should have said nobody gets a pay increase.

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  46. icedog: saw that on tv how very very sad mate,see they broke a rave up in your neckof the woods,will people ever learn

    Apparently not mate, stupid is as stupid does. Don’t understand how some folk go on .

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  47. kimtoon:
    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/triple-funeral-mother-sons-died-161555552.html

    Well that’s just heartbreaking and a very timely reminder that you don’t have to be 60 plus to die from it.

    Kimtoon: did you read the full article? Near the bottom it said that Grandmother, one son and 10 other family members had tested positive for CV-19. That’s a cautionary tale for large family get togethers at the moment if ever I saw one.

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  48. Eric Sykes: Kimtoon: did you read the full article? Near the bottom it said that Grandmother, one son and 10 other family members had tested positive for CV-19. That’s a cautionary tale for large family get togethers at the moment if ever I saw one.

    Eric – on a similar note, I read an article of a wedding over in the states with a big get together & no masks and they all caught it – including the elderly grandparents

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