This is not a long article, but an invitation to my fellow bloggers and esteemed readers to debate the pro’s and con’s of letting the big man go. Maybe even an opportunity for a poll! No I don’t mean signing Kamil Grosicki in Demba’s place, but a type of vote on the subject…
Anyhow. Earlier this season Demba was sensational and was banging them in. Sublime free kicks, powerful finishes around the box, great technique closer to goal. As a main striker – the focal point of our team during forward play – the man was unplayable at times. He relished it and the team relished supplying him with the bullets. During this time he became one of the top-three strikers in the Premier League. The thing is though, that was in a standard 4-4-2 with Leon Best doing the hard graft to leave the space for Ba to exploit.
Whilst this was happening, Hatem Ben Arfa struggled to fit the routine, almost archaic 4-4-2 system and many including myself questioned the Frenchman’s future at the club. It was not a problem though, we were winning games and looking pretty solid. Then the Christmas period arrived followed by January.
Leon Best was almost flogged to the farce that is Scottish football, Stevie Taylor was struck down with another long term injury and out of nowhere we signed a striker even better than Demba Ba himself! As these changes swept in, the tides shifted our side’s set up and style of play. The 4-3-2-1 resulted in new #9 and Godlike footballer of the Tyne being Pardew’s new, improved focal point of all things Black and White.
This saw Demba shifted out wide and whilst his Senegalese compatriot banged them in, Ba’s goals disappeared from the radar. Meanwhile Benny boy was a man reborn. He built up an almost telepathic understanding with the Toon Army’s new cult hero and scored arguably the Premier League’s goal of the season. He started to chase back effectively and now looks like one of the best players in the league. Unfortunately Cisse and Ben Arfa’s prominence has come at Demba’s cost.
Don’t get me wrong. He is a grafter and more than does his fair share for the team. He does not go running to the press to complain about playing out of position and is an obvious benefit to Cisse whilst he settles in. But in the long run? When these two play in a 4-4-2 together Benny looks uncomfortable and the team creates a lot less chances with Cabaye sat further back – who is our poor man’s version of Paul Scholes – albeit our version actually knows how to tackle – and pick on kids it would seem.
The long run could see Ba happy to hand over the plaudits – comfortable to see out his footballing days as a workhorse with no star player adorned limelight whilst his international team-mate takes all the glory, waiting patiently for those times when Cisse is injured or unavailable to take his chance as the main man once more – but with a supposed reasonably cheap get out clause in his contract is this really going to happen?
There are plenty of top sides across Europe just begging for a player like Demba to be their main man – especially at a cut price. Once Cisse has settled in will Pardew be asking himself if it would benefit the team to let the for former Hammer go? Benny would benefit from the 4-3-2-1 system and I think the partnership we should concentrate on improving is Cisse-Benny, not Cisse-Ba. Especially with players like Pienaar and Junior Hoilett soon to become available for next to nothing. They would add pace and guile to our advanced wing positions and are both examples of fast, tricky players with an end product that Gutierrez and Obertan lack far too often for my liking.
Another thing to consider is the fact that Pardew seems happy to let Leon Best go. Messi he is not, agreed, but he was great fodder for Demba. If he goes, who can be that distraction fot Ba when Cisse is not about? Shola Ameobi is a great bit part player these days, but a regular starter? No thanks… Nile Ranger? Give it a rest. On top of that – what happens during the African Cup of Nations during 2013? OK this season we fared reasonably soundly – but you can’t tell me we wont suffer next season without our best two strikers. We got off lightly this season due to Senegal’s abysmal display. That probably wont happen again next season…
If Demba moved on to pastures new this summer it would give us the opportunity to replace him with another quality player but from somewhere a little closer to home – who will still be available to us during January/February time…. It may even do our team some good as the last couple of games in particular he has looked a little out of sorts. A bit like a square peg in a round hole… As I said a minute ago, he’s one of our best two strikers in years. But our best formation only has room for one striker. That will always be Cisse, who is just exceptional.
Don’t get me wrong. The man will always have a place in my heart for what he has done for us this season – but I just cannot see him being happy going from the main man to being a workhorse who supplies the bullets to his mate for the rest of his days. That’s a hard pill to swallow when you know how good you can be as the focal point yourself.
[poll id=”67″]
jj wont like this thread 😉
hitman(Quote)
I just couldn’t see us replacing a striker of Demba’s quality with someone as good for the amount of money we’re prepared to spend.
He can do everything you want from a striker and it’s not like Cisse will be fit for every game, especially with Europa League next season.
With Lovenkrands, Ranger and maybe even Best all away in the summer as well I think it would start to turn into a squad overhaul if Demba left too.
I would get someone like Jay Rodriguez in to compete with the Demba’s and Shola and let the fifth striker be chosen from the raft of youngsters we’re bringing in this summer and take it from there.
dan4toon(Quote)
u sell Ba i see your point but its the knock on effect it will have that worrys me….
1) cisse wont be happy one bit !
2) would it dissrupt the likes of krul or tiote thinking its a wrong move
2) and finding someone who can actually play in the premier league is easier said than done
its a brave articule and i can see your point bravo for having the spuds to put it up i like someone whos not afraid to have a opinion
ice pup(Quote)
We are far too light on numbers without letting reams of players go.
Best isnt a bad back up and he would be adequate for that role.
Seems a shame to lose demba just to improve the team why not improve the team with him still there?
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
Good responses and fair ones too lads. My worry is the ACON leaving us woefully short, Demba getting unsettled and the fact the decision could be taken out of our hands should someone trigger his clause in any case? Looking forward to the comments 😀
Shamrock(Quote)
if its true about dembas release clause we would only get 7 mill.
not enough money to go out and buy a replacement who can hit the onion bag like demba.
hitman(Quote)
Keep him we need a bigger squad
Whoarya(Quote)
the sun are saying villa have sacked mcleish,shame he was doing a good job 😆 😆
hitman(Quote)
hope you’v got a flak jacket on shamrock i can see this one ganning south on ya…
ice pup(Quote)
The only downside is back playing 4-4-2 with demba, I thought we were a better side playing 4-3-3 with him wide left and the three lads bossing midfield particularly liverpool where we totally outplayed them and west brom where we played some of the best counter attacking football from a nufc side in years.
If demba can score goals from wide left (like he did at wham/hoffenheim) and we can play a slicker system then great, If he demands a place up top to the detriment of the team then we may have a problem but the positives outweigh the negatives massively.
Also having (hopefully) 20 odd games in the cups on top of this seasons fixtures we will need a bigger squad, So lets keep him… 😉
CC(Quote)
Hitman
I think Demba is great, but if we play a 4-3-3 system then he would be much less of a miss than Cisse.
Cisse and Ben Arfa combine superbly. I think Marvauex could do a much better job on the left that Ba is doing.
If Ba had to stay he would be second choice to Cisse which would be unreal, but its also unrealistic.
So actually I wouldn’t mind if Ba were the one to go for around 8mil and we brought in someone like Luuk de Jong.
If Tiote had to leave for 20mil and we got M’Vila or Sissoko I’d be fine with that too, but I’d like to keep the players we have.
As I mentioned earlier. I don’t think Ba likes being second to Cisse and it shows because he’s been far too selfish in his play recently.
JJ(Quote)
Thw thing is, if his contract does not get amended, do we sit back and hope nobody steals him in the last week of the window leaving us no time to replace him, or do we plan ahead without him focusing on maximising the potential of our 433 system, which he looks uncomfortable in? It’s all well and good saying keep him, but it’s not that simple… big teams will most definitely be willing to sign him up as their top dog this summer. We cant offer him that anymore with Cisse here.
Shamrock(Quote)
I’d keep him, might not be in the clubs hands though 😕
Hitman…comment 21 on the last thread 😉
richietoon(Quote)
i didnt see that richie 😆
i agree demba is wasted in a 433.
hitman(Quote)
If a club triggers his release clause Ba will go only if he wants to go.
Hopefully we will have a new striker coming in just in case Ba goes. Personally , I think Bas Dost would be great playing up front with Cisse and he could play as a sole striker when Cisse is away with ACON. He would cost £7m.
sidekick(Quote)
I think Guthrie, Simpson and Ba will definately be gone this transfer window.
But if we got Mathieu Debuchy, Gylfi Sigurðsson, and Luuk de Jong I’d be ok with that. 😀
JJ(Quote)
Shamrock… If he doesn’t ammend his contract that’s a different matter, we’d have to assume he’s going anyway, if he does ammend it then I reckon it would be safe to assume that he’s definately staying.
richietoon(Quote)
Hitman..don’t worry, most people just skip over my comments…doubt you’ll read this though! 😕 😆
richietoon(Quote)
JJ…Add Best to that list.
richietoon(Quote)
Not a chance would I sell him, I’d prefer we supplement our striker force this summer, not sell one of the best out there to a team who’ll be competing against us for top 6 next season….
Yeah I get your point but playing midweek & weekends, we’ll need more than 1 top notch striker & both Demba’s have played in Europe, so we’ll need their experience to help us agaist the quality of European teams we’ll be facing…
Yeah sure bring in Dejong or Roux or someother top striker to replace Best, Lover, Ranger & hopefully Xisco but don’t sell Ba too or we’d need to try & find 2 or 3 top strikers to fill in…
As for Pienaar or Hiolett, we don’t need either if we can keep Marvioux fit, as he showed yesterday, he changed the side considerably when he came on, good passing, pacey, he’s ideal for that left wing with Fergie his backup while Jonas backs up HBA on the right… 🙂
This is what our squad should be like next season:
GK – Krul (Deputy – Elliot or Harper or ??)
RB – Santon (Deputy – Tavernier, Perch, Raylor)
CB – Saylor, Colo (Deputy – Willo, Pieters, ??)
LB – Pieter (Deputy – Perch, Raylor)
RW – HBA (Deputy – Obertan, Jonas, Raylor)
DFM – Tiote (Deputy – Perch, Gosling, Jonas)
AMF – Cabaye (Deputy – Vuckic, Amalfito (sp?), ??)
LW – Marvaeux (Deputy – Fergie, Jonas)
ST – Cisse, Ba, )Deputy – Strola (if we must), ??
So we need a new GK is Harps retires, we need another CB, AMF & ST plus fill gaps for Simmo & Gutherie if they leave too… 4 players should be enough to give us a good PL squad & plenty of cover in all area’s imo 😉
Toon69(Quote)
😆
Potential teams in the Europa League
Lazio
Napoli
Inter Milan
Atletico Madrid
Levante
Lyon
Sporting Lisbon
Bayer Leverkusen
Stuttgart
walk in the park 😆
hitman(Quote)
I’m not sure Elliott will be here next season 😯
richietoon(Quote)
Levante and Madrid will be canny for me like
Wouldn’t mind a trip to Germany either.
Completely off topic but a bit of a shock with Sevilla being relegated 😯
richietoon(Quote)
If Ba’s unhappy and is disrupting the squad and the team ethic, then we should sell him. If not try and get this new contract sorted. Train Marvauew to play that LW spot if Ba goes and use the money from his sale to buy one of guedetti from city/Rhodes/J.Rodriguez as back-up to Cissé. We can make sure they’re match fit by playing them in cup games and sub them on later in matches, this
way they’ll be ready when ACON is on.
Andymag(Quote)
Be tempted to take the money for a player we got on a free,but mainly cause of the knee problem he has,think its only a matter of time before it gos meself
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Hitman
You can add Chelsea, Spurs, Valcencia and Liverpool to that list.
Joke competition really. Not presitgious in the least bit. 😉
JJ(Quote)
If there is any chance of keeping Ba at our club then we should really try to get him to stay I think.
We’re obviously going to get next to nowt for him if he leaves and again where can we get a player of his quality, that is friends with many of our players and who can be as prolific as him elsewhere for peanuts?
Graham Carr is a legend but even for him that would be difficult.
And its not just Ba’s goal scoring ability. His work ethic is arguable even more important to us. He really tries for the team even when he isn’t scoring.
If Ba wants to go then fair enough. If we can evolve and get better without him fair enough as well but it’s another big ask in my opinion to replace him.
GeordieDan(Quote)
Are Inter in the Europa? I thought they finished 7th or 8th?
Andymag(Quote)
JJ – Eitehr Chelski or Spurt will be in the CL not the EL… 😆
Toon69(Quote)
Richie
Have Sevilla got anyone good we could take fairly cheaply?
Andymag(Quote)
aye its a mickey mouse cup 😯
should be a good adventure
hitman(Quote)
No I want him to stay. He has been incredable this season and his workrate has been top notch. Cisse probably only arrived because of him as well. Cisse will get injured/suspended as some stage and we will need a goalscorer. I can’t see us bringing in a better striker for the money we would get for Ba unless PSG come in with a £20M bid, even then we could buy a flop. Next season we will play a lot more games and he will get more opportunities to lead the line. So it’s a no from me.
DJG(Quote)
Toon69
Not if one of them doesn’t get past the CL group stages. 😆
Andymag(Quote)
Richie
You reckon Federico Fazio would be a decent buy? He is 25-years old, pacey and big in defence. An Argentinian International who might fit in nicely next to Coloccini??
JJ(Quote)
Toon 69
If Chelsea don’t win they will be in EL via their FA Cup win. And if they do win the CL then Spurs will be in the EL via their league placing and we will drop to the earlier stages of qualifying.
JJ(Quote)
Andymag – True but knowing the lucky bastards, they’ll get some unknown team from an unknown country who’s first time in the CL qualies & get thru dead easy like the Spurts diud last time… 😡
Plus knowing our luck, we’ll end up having to play one of these teams to get into the EL group stages:
Lazio
Napoli
Inter Milan
Atletico Madrid
Levante
Lyon
Sporting Lisbon
Bayer Leverkusen
Stuttgart
🙄
Toon69(Quote)
We’re apparently after romain homouma ❓ anyone heard of him 😕 ?
Andymag(Quote)
Whats the verdict on @27?
Andymag(Quote)
Correction*
@28 😳
Andymag(Quote)
JJ – Yeah I know but it will be one or the other, not both unless who ever gets the 4th CL places fails to qualify as AndyMag pointed out 😉
Toon69(Quote)
Toon69
Pleased to help 😉
Andymag(Quote)
JJ…Valencia are in the CL too 😉
richietoon(Quote)
thing is selling ba for the release sum of 7mil if thats the fig,he takes half the fee so toon are left with about 3mil and it would have cost that to sign him with agents fees signing on fee ect leaves us with nowt imo apart from the 16 goals like 😉
icedog(Quote)
We eed to shed some players so I have compiled a list of who and why.
Cabaye – ball boy basher
Tiote – yellow card basher
Krul – won’t come out for crosses
Collo – too slow
Williamson – too slow & foûls a lot
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Ice
So we should sign him onto a new contract then sell him onto PSG for £15m
Andymag(Quote)
Is this fCk%n pick on me day!!! 😈
😆 😆 😆
Toon 69
The list was of “potential” teams in the EL 😉
JJ(Quote)
Aussie @ 44 – Yeah, lets get rid of them & pay off what we owe to Ashley in one fell swoop, then we can start to rebuild from scratch… great plan… 😆
Toon69(Quote)
Santon. Too much hair product.
Obertan – no hair product
Guti – no end product
BA – has become greedy
Guthrie – too needy
Ben Area – won’t defend
Simpson – can’t defend
Cisse – can’t score simple goals
Get rid of these guys and we are set to go…
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
JJ Is this fCk%n pick on me day!!!
aye it is mate,sorry its RICHIE day off on a monday 😀
icedog(Quote)
aussie magpie fan
What about
Saylor – perma-crock
Marvaeux – perma-crock
Jonas – can’t shoot or cross
Ben Arfa – selfish
Cisse – he has failed to find the net in his last two games now and he is only good at instinctive finishing
We can build the team around Santon
, all the rest are ****.
JJ(Quote)
JJ….He’s ok, havn’t seen that much off him, can’t remember him being that pacey but he’s certainly got height…..has to limbo under the crossbar…..not sure he’d cut it in the prem though.
richietoon(Quote)
are inter in the EL they finished 6th.
hitman(Quote)
Think it purely depends on the system Pardew thinks he will use most next season.
If we are staying with 4-2-3-1 it’s possible we could get a more effective player for Ba’s position (though I think he has been playing fairly decently, just a bit low on confidence). There is no way Ba would be happy as back up or for cup games, which is fair enough.
Surely there must be some system we can play to accommodate Ba/Cisse/HBA/Cabaye.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
I agree with TOON69 @ 20
We are losing Lovenkrands, possibly Best and Ranger. Xisco won’t be here. Why lose Ba as well. As it is it gets to the end of games and we are wondering when Shola will come on. We need to add a striker in the summer and not lose anymore IMO. With European games we are gonna be stretched even further and we need the energy of Ba/Cisse.
DJG(Quote)
JJ – OIC, trying that one are yer.. 😆
Well you could add some more of the CL teams who may or may not fall into the EL later on too then 😆
No one’s picking on yer fella… 😉 😉 😉
Toon69(Quote)
JJ..I think the “potentially in the CL” is if they all get through the qualifiers otherwise you’d have to name, Real Madrid, Barca, Manchesters, Bayern etc etc 😉
richietoon(Quote)
aussie magpie fan
Just think, we’d have about 120 million to spend, just think what team Carr could find us with that!! Plus our wage bill would be non exsistant.
JJ(Quote)
Hitman@52…you tell us, you started it 😆
richietoon(Quote)
Yeah JJ 🙂 imagine all the new players we could criticise 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Huge test of Pardew’s man management skills this summer.
Those that listened to the radio interview will have heard how strict they are with HBA, saying they’ve told him it doesn’t matter how much magic he produces, if he doesn’t track back he’s not in the team. HBA has had to work to adapt his game to get starts and Ba may have to do the same.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
AMF
Best – can only shoot when close to the goal
Vuckic – can only shoot when too far away from goal
Shola – already an Ameobi on the team
Marvauew – too many frenchmen on the team
Andymag(Quote)
Get off me feckin’ back… you all haters! 😎
JJ(Quote)
DJG…Xisco may not be “here” but I’ll be surprised if he’s off the books. 😕
richietoon(Quote)
i was just picking up what andy was saying inter finished 6th didnt win a cup.
so im not sure there in it.
not unless 6th gets you europe
hitman(Quote)
JJ…hates a bit strong, I prefer dislike intensely 😉 😆
richietoon(Quote)
rich i copied it from another toon site i dont think inter are in it
hitman(Quote)
Perch – all at sea
Taylor – no position sewn up
Ferguson – no sir
I think that covers them all, thanks for the help jj and Andy 🙂 🙂
aussie magpie fan(Quote)
Elliot – not experienced enough
Harper – too experienced
Ferguson – wrong kind of Irish
Abeid – wrong kind of Algerian
Andymag(Quote)
I disagree with all of the above. Ba hasn’t become a bad player overnight. Hes still had chances and been very unlucky on some occasions. With the Europa league we need at least 4 top strikers who can be classed as first teamers. Also if we want to do well in the cups we need to have a bigger squad full of first teamers.
I think we need to tighten up at centre midfield another destoryer in the ilk of tiote to play alongside him, but with just a bit more technique on the ball. I tink we could do with another attacking wing-forward in the ilk of ben arfa to play the other side of a front three, right footed preferably so that if we need to change to a 4-4-2 system he could play on the right, with Marveaux operating on the left wing.
We are desperate for a first choice centre half who is dangerous in the box who is good on the floor like Colo and S.Taylor, too often this season Williamson has nervously lost the ball or just tries a long hopeful punt up the pitch. This is ineffective against the best centre halves in the league. We also need a young up and coming centre half. 5 is a minimum requirement, this season we had Colo, Taylor & williamson all out at the same time, we cannot afford that to happen again Thinking of the norwich game away from home, we probably would have won that had it not been for the injuries and probably got into the CL places.
Kev_1664(Quote)
Hitman….Apparently top 4 get CL and 4-8th get Europa, so I’m guessing they don’t allocate any places to cup winners which is the right way to do it imo.
richietoon(Quote)
Hitman
Italian leagues different from ours, they don’t let they’re cup winners get euro football so maybe 6th is good enough for Europa for them?
Andymag(Quote)
Kev…so then you’re not really disagreeing with “all” of the above then. 😉
richietoon(Quote)
Yes Richie I know he has 1 year left. But Smith doesn’t. 🙂
DJG(Quote)
Snap Richie 😉
Andymag(Quote)
I know I got some deserved stick last time I put my trust in a source over the sale of Tiote and Krul and I vowed not to trust a source again. However, I feel this source is too trustworthy not to put my faith in his informatiion and share it with you.
This week there will be a huge story released by the press about a cataclysmic event occurring at SJP.
I won’t release the finer details for fear of compromising the source.
I put my neck on the line and will take the flak if it does not break this week.
Troy Stavers(Quote)