While a lot of the players have, quite rightly at times, attracted criticism there are also those who have enhanced their reputations.
And by now we are all aware of just how our “business model” works which combined with the forthcoming January transfer window and the performances of some of players could lead to an interesting and frustrating month or so as speculation starts to trickle into newsfeeds.
My heart, and our league position to be fair, says that we can’t afford to sell anyone and need to actually strengthen the side. My head however looks at previous transfer windows and wonders if we may have already had a glimpse of what may happen.
Now I’m fully aware that in the summer we spent a decent amount and I still think we added some good players. But that’s so far been a one off and was at least partly brought about because of failures to invest previously.
The thing is some of those platers have caught the eye, as have players who here already here, so who is most at risk when January comes around and given that I’ve already said we shouldn’t sell any of our first team, what figures would you think ‘fair enough’ about if someone did come calling for one our lads?
The first name is going to be Ayoze Perez who is already attracting interest and has already responded to that interest. The 22-year-old has been somewhat of a revelation since joining from Tenerife for a fee of roughly £1.5 million last summer.
This season he has four goals and has laid on a further two for his team, but it’s his willingness to work, his availability to receive the ball and what he can do with the ball when he does receive it that makes him a good player. Good enough not to sell.
So then the question comes of just how much would you hold your hands up and say that the club couldn’t refuse that amount of money? For me we’re talking Andy Carroll figures for a player who has shown he can compete in this league and still has potential to get even better.
Georginio Wijnaldum is another player who will be being looked at by other clubs. The Dutch midfielder has scored seven goals so far this term and without them we’d still be in the relegation places instead of just above it. Like Perez, Wijnaldum has also laid on two goals for his team.
He has attracted criticism from some fans which I think is harsh given that he’s played more centrally throughout his career and we are playing him on the left, but despite this he is our top scorer, has one of the highest pass completion rates in the side and has ran more miles putting in more interceptions than any other player in the side. We paid £14.5 million for him. If he was to move on so soon I’d be looking for double that.
One player who will no doubt again be linked with a move away will be Moussa Sissoko. Indeed I feel it is only a matter of time before he leaves St James’ Park which means that there is going to be speculation.
Sissoko is a frustrating one as he has so much pace and power but so often poses little threat going forward. Again I do feel slightly sorry for him as he’s being played on the right and not in the centre but I still feel he should be contributing more.
We’ve seen what he can do but getting him to do it regularly is the issue. We hear quite often that he thinks he should be playing in the Champions League but he difference between players like Sissoko and those who do play in the Champions League is consistency. Sissoko can rip teams apart but not often enough to be relied upon. I’d sell for £15 million.
Just to reiterate I don’t think we should be selling anybody, but if we did I think it’s those three who will have the most eyes watching them, and it’s those fees that I’d begrudgingly accept seeing them move on.
What do you think?
In the position we’re in and with a very thin squad we shouldn’t sell anyone in Jan. I think the club know that, even Ashley – he has his eyes on the money next year. So no sales for me especially our best players. They’d just blow £35m on more Thauvins anyway and Ashley knows that too!
georgio(Quote)
For me , the moment of the match at Spurs was the reaction of Mike Ashley when Perez scored. His celebration was no less than that of any die hard nufc fan. 😯
It was possibly the thought of staying in the premiership with all of that money coming that caused him to jump with joy. 😉
Because of that I can not believe he will allow any decent player to leave in this window and I even expect him to try and bring in one or two good players.
sidekick(Quote)
Sidekick I believe you have been drinking! Ashley’s reaction was one of relief that we moved out of the relegation zone. He was probably also thinking about the money we could get for Perez! If he was a proper fan he wouldn’t do the things he does.
Stuart79(Quote)
The thing that pisses me off about this is that when you look at the likes of Everton who just steadfastly refused to sell Stones to Chelsea even after being offered £35m! Can anybody hand on heart say we would have refused that amount for any of our players?
Where as Everton have a ambition to make Everton as good as they can possibly be and keeping hold of your best players and building on that is key to their thinking. Ours on the other hand is clear; McClaren has a remit to improve players and then sell them. Where is the improvement of the whole club in that strategy?
Even the fact that the TV money has gone through the roof won’t change our strategy. If we get a good offer we will sell.
I just want to ask this question though; What is the point in this strategy? What will it achieve and what is Ashley actually wanting to achieve by working like this?
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu , you could be right about Perez but I hope you are wrong.
Did you watch the game on Sky and see Ashleys’ celebration? I am going to be optimistic and believe Ashley is beginning to give a **** about the club.
Then again , I might soon be changing my blog name to ‘deluded Geordie’. 😆
sidekick(Quote)
Ffs everton have sold a **** load of players…talk about picking and chosing facts to support an argument. For every Stones there is a Fellani….Typical of Stuart really.. full of ****…
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Has anybody got a reliable update on the state of the club debts? I understand the selling strategy whilst debts need paying, but how much debt are we in and how much have we paid off recently? If the mo.eyfrom sales and advertising etc is not being put into buying players or paying off debts then questions need to be asked. If the debts are being paid and the strategy is clear the debt at the cost of putting ambition aside for a few years then its hard to argue against, so long as we do become ambitious once the debts are gone…
Shamrock(Quote)
Oh dear. Silly season. es tu Toonsy?
Brisvegas(Quote)
I don’t subscribe to the idea that Ashley doesn’t want the club to be at least moderately successful – just that a) he appoints low-grade amateurs to run the club and b) the over-arching player strategy (buy cheap and young, no bolshy characters) won’t work given the money awash in the PL. These things compound the debt issue to leave us less able to compete – even if Schteve were to win the arguyment to sign a differnet player profile and sign players with a view to building the team and a coherent squad, we still have to get rid of several highly-paid failures / poor characters before we can afford to do this.
My best hope for this january is to ship out 3-4 of these wasters (in no special order, choose from Obertan, Marveaux, Tiote, Cisse, Willo, Gouffran) and sign 1-2 proper players. Wishful thinking, though.
GTE(Quote)
Everton net spent in last 5 years is £25m.
Newcastle is £47m.
Sunderland is £84m.
Villa is £46m.
Stoke is £44m.
West Ham is £93m.
Southampton is only £1m.
Spurs is MINUS £41m.
Swansea is MINUS £16m.
Shamrock(Quote)
Well Perez seems happy and gratefull to be at the toon so I think jabba will not sell him yet after all the kid is young and will only get which means he will be worth more in a season or two and clubs will have plenty TV money,even then I think when he’s sold it will be to one of two clubs in Spain
icedog(Quote)
BETTER
icedog(Quote)
Actually, Aussie if you would engage in debate rather than your typical bollocks you would know that my point is that Everton rejected the huge bid because of the new TV deal. The Fellaini’s of the world was 2 and half years ago and against a different back drop, which is exactly what my point is. Everton haven’t sold out, I believe we would if we got a good offer.
Any chance of having your opinion that rather than talking complete bull **** about absolutely nothing?
Stuart79(Quote)
Every player has their price. Even the top clubs sell their players if the price is right – Liverpool with Suarez, Spurs with Bale, Man Utd with Ronaldo, Chelsea with Luiz, Arsenal – take your pick.
But let’s consider the ‘best’ players we have sold. If we start with Carroll – we turned down a number of bids before selling for £35m. I was and am still of the opinion that we would have been crazy not to sell at that price. Cabaye was sold for £19m – what we can’t forget with that deal is that had we kept him until the summer, he could have bought the remainder of his contract out – around £5m. He made it perfectly clear that his intentions were to leave, so for me it made sense to cash in. Demba Ba went for a pittance, but that’s not coz we were happy to cash in on him, that’s coz some muppet agreed to put a clause in his contract.
IMO our biggest downfall hasn’t been selling players, it’s been not re-investing the generated money back into the playing staff. Saints have proven that you can sell your best players, re invest and still turn a profit.
Regarding Perez though, £15m is peanuts for that lad. Keep him another season and he’ll be worth double that at least.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Not bullshit, just reality… I wasn’t being abusive, just pointing out the truth. Sorry if it came across as anything else..
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
GTE – What do you think ‘moderately successful’ looks like to Ashley? It’s a fair assumption that it would be a different meaning to ours…
Stuart79(Quote)
The Fat Man doesn’t NEED to sell any players, although I agree with GTEs list of players that should go and would add Steven Taylor. The globalization of the PL means that despite his mismanagement of NUFC as a club (not financially) that Fatty would probably make a profit if he sold now. The Chinese just paid about same for 13% of Man City as Ashley paid for the whole NUFC, including the loans he made.
Whatever the board say, we would be stupid to sell any of our better players and stupid not to invest a bit more to guarantee PL survival.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
So, I am still wiating for your opinion on the ACTUAL point I made, not your imaginary point.
Stuart79(Quote)
For Ashley – success is mid-table, enough of a threat to big guns to get lots of TV appearances and enough of a cup run to appease fans – but having been burned once by Europa League, I imagine he wants us to finish 8th – 12th, which, if that’s the limit of ambition, is just too fine a margin vs being in the relegation pack.
Eric, yes,I forgot Taylor.
GTE(Quote)
Sharpy – I agree with most of what you have wrote above, however, non of them clubs you mentioned have a ‘strategy’ of bringing in players cheaper, improving them and selling them on. That is a club policy and the remit of the coach. That surely is a road to nowhere? Straight away every player knows he’s not joining the club to achieve anything, he’s just joining as a means to an end? Can you build a football club like that?
Stuart79(Quote)
So GTE – Would you be happy with that ‘success’?
Stuart79(Quote)
AMF @15: I think calling someone “full of ****” is abusive.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Is it any different now than when Gazza and Waddle went to Spurs and Beardsley and Kennedy went to Liverpool? We were probably the Southampton of that era.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Stu, I’ve many times gone on record on here to say where I think NUFC should be, which is with a similar aim to Everton, having a crack at the 6 clubs with much greater revenues, targeting 6th-8th place, every few years decent chance of upsetting the party, and realistic chance in the cups.
Why not higher? 1. Because for all of my lifetime, indeed even since the 1930s, solid top-half of top division would be a high finishing position for us.2. Because 5 clubs have twice or more our revenues.
Even targeting 6th-8th and cups means either a patient build up of a better balanced squad, like Everton, using high profile sales to fund that development. Or it means major extra debt, which no owner is going to take on, just to get in Europa League.
Unless we find a Geordie supporting Chinese $trillionnaire.
GTE(Quote)
Aye, GTE, I agree with the 6-8th and the odd season we might challenge for the CL like Everton have in the past. One of the many problems we face is that whether that’s Ashley’s hope or not, I just do not believe he has the football intelligence or the personal to actually make that happen.
Stuart79(Quote)
On that, Stu, we agree. It may even be Ashley’s aim, with the long term contracts etc. – but if so, some of his appointments are shocking, and the lucrative long term contracts to average players of poor character is what has really shackled us.
GTE(Quote)
Eric, was just using some Stuart rational around something not being abusive if it is deemed to be the truth..was probably a little too subtle… 😉
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Eric – we were a much worse selling club in those days, but the owners I revile most are the Halls and Fat Fred – when we sold Sir Les rather than building on the two second place finishes, to fund a dividend for the major shareholders and again signed only Bowyer on a free under SBR, again to fund dividends and bonuses. Small investments at those times would have established us as a regular CL Club, and probably actually won something. (And would have attracted a higher quality of billionaire owner than Ashley).
GTE(Quote)
Alestars scramble to a lucky win again and maintain their 6 point lead. The pack on their back are starting to string out a bit, though still tight.
1 Alestars 40
2 Newbriscastle Roar 34
3 Dubai Toon United 33
4 Balotellitubbies 30
5 Born Winner FC 30
6 Macas Pony and Trap 29
7 Natalie Sawyer Fan 27
8 Puff Puff Pass 27
9 Nik Nak Utd 27
10 Joshua 27
At the bottom, Aussie Mags won a game; hitmans army didn’t, and CCFC have surrendered again. Bunch of quitters!
Brisvegas(Quote)
AMF: too subtle for me by half 🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Everton spent years spinning it’s wheels under the stewardship of Moyse.. they spent next to zero money and relied on seasoned pros to carry them through.. they bought a few players with the Rooney money and the Rodwell money and the Fellani money……. now they are being heralded ad the poster child of how a club should be run!
What a fuken poor comparison!
Where were the comparisons during the seasons when the bought in next to fuk all players? … that doesn’t count I guess. ..
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
NUFC finishing position since SBR sacked:
14, 7, 13, 12, 18 (rel), NA (Champo), 12, 5, 16, 10, 15
Everton finishing position same years (mostly under Moyes):
4, 11, 6, 5, 5, 8, 7, 7, 6, 5, 11
So Everton, spinning its wheels with 9 top-10 finishes, versus us with two top 10 finishes and one relegation. I’ll take that comparison, AMF
GTE(Quote)
It also illustrates that being successful, at least in terms of challenging the clubs with much greater evenues, isn’t necessarily about spending money, but about developing a squad. I think that will be even more important now the money has gone through the roof for all clubs – there are already a lot of squads worth a lot of money on paper, which are being shown to be sorely lacking.
GTE(Quote)
AMF: Everton are not that great now either. They are 10th and finished 11th last year. You could even say they are underachievers as the whole is probably less than the sum of their parts when you consider they have Lukaku, Baines, Stones and Barkley.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I am really not sure you can read, Aussie. My whole point is about NOW, not 3 or 4 years ago. The point is that the new TV deal is so big that Everton have felt they could reject a huge offer for a centre back. My only question was, does anybody think we would do they same?
If you are only going to answer imaginary questions don’t bother, other than that I would be happy to know your view on my actual question.
Stuart79(Quote)
Eric – that’s because Martinez is half-baked compared to Moyes.
GTE(Quote)
Everton are getting a lot of good press but they are underachieving compared to their recent history, as GTE pointed out.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
With the increase in money to the tune of £40m per team minimum it means most clubs can bring in better players and they don’t have to sell their best players because it will be worth more if they stay up.
Stuart79(Quote)
GTE, pretty consistent I agree and i would like that record as well.. but they never took a chance to take the next step.. so they pretty much stalled (spun their wheels).. they are hardly a progressive club…
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Everton’s finances just don’t allow for it, AMF. Unless they want to double the ratio of wage bill to turnover and risk a Leeds. Before Chelsea and Citeh there was space at the top table, but now I’m not so sure. Although Chelsea are doing a good job of leaving a vacancy 😀
GTE(Quote)
Stuart my point was that you pick and choose your facts to suit your argument.. you only chose the last 3 seasons because all the seasons prior to that, don’t support your argument. Stones was hung onto but they have sold as consistently as any team
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Exactly GTE, they lived within their means…. sound familiar?
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Moyes’ problem was that he never won anything – and only got to one cup final in 12 years at the club. I agree with Aussie that Everton might have gone a little further, but in the cups, not the league.
GTE(Quote)
Aussie, are you for real? Seriously? Everton only rejected the big offer for Stones this summer and the big TV deal only comes in next season so how on earth can I talk about the previous 3 seasons when that has nothing to do with my point. My point surrounds the new TV deal and the implications of it. That has nothing to do with the past!
Stuart79(Quote)
Talking about living within your means… I will say it again, we can buy in January and do not need to sell. The money sloshing around in the PL allows us to keep hold of our better players and add to them if we want.
By luck or design, some of the dead wood drop off in the summer anyway so it will not affect Fatty’s beloved bottom line that much.
I thought they had a strategy of letting the **** players’ contracts expire but then they extended Coloccini and spoiled that theory.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Now now children.
Isn’t the Everton Stones thing more straightforward. They got Martinez in the belief that he could take them to the next level, bit like Liverpool did with Rodgers. Moyes wouyld have argued to sell Stones and bought a few players on the back. Martinez is making a statement in keeping Stones, like they did in buying Lukaku. Problem is, will they even match Moyes’ league finishes, let alone challenge Spurs and Liverpool?
GTE(Quote)
Re read your first two paragraphs (particularly the first) and tell me how i have misinterpreted anything… you added the tv money comment but it has nothing to do with your original comments..you compared how they are using it compared to how we would… so please try and remember the tripe you post! 😆
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Aussie, do you struggle to combine all the paragraphs of a post and take the overall point or do you just break them down into lines and interpret each line how you like?
Stuart79(Quote)
GTE – They will have a better chance of achieving the Moyes’ finishes if they keep the likes of Stones and Barkley as well as signing players like Lakaku.
Stuart79(Quote)
I broke your points down by the paragraphs you set.. there was no clear conclusion so i thought they were just random ramblings/thoughts … 😐
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Conclusions usually come at the end. Or they do in the real world…
Stuart79(Quote)
All your time is spent being abusive and trying to be sarcastic. Why not engage in debate? You still haven’t even tried to do that!
Stuart79(Quote)
Your version of “real world”worries me to no end!
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Stuart: don’t you know everything works in reverse down under. The water goes around the toilet bowl the other way and conclusions come at the start of a blog post 😈
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Ha, same tired, **** response when ever I call you out. You are predictable that is for sure.. better luck next time!
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Just stirring the pot !
Eric Sykes(Quote)
There was no conclusion just a question…. for the record. …
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Not you Eric… your timing is terrible!
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
AMF: just talk about football for once.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
AMF: you actually have a good insight into NUFC when you decide to talk about NUFC.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Eric… i know!
Aussie Magpie Fan(Quote)
Christ, you must have a good memory, Eric! When was the last time he ever commented on NUFC?
Stuart79(Quote)
Stuart: AMF used to write some interesting articles.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Being honest, TV money or not I would have taken £35m for John Stones – providing it was put back into the team.
Sharpy17(Quote)
But Sharpy, if he was worth £35m last summer, he isn’t going to be worth any less next summer is he? Plus he may help them finish higher in the league. It would make no sense to sell him at that price when a year later, more international caps later and good Euros he would be worth more with more clubs in for him.
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu – they can add clauses to the deal for things like that – as in another couple of million if he wins a title of whatever.
They bought him for £2.5m and at present he has achieved nothing – nor will he at Everton. £35m would buy you another decent CB plus other players for the team.
The lad could break his leg like Luke Shaw has at Man Utd – then where would Everton be – without him and looking at at least a year for him to be back where he is now. What if Lukaku breaks his leg? They have no real back up to him in the squad and he’s the one that wins them games.
Sell Stones, get another quality CB in his place & buy another CF to strengthen your squad.
It’s good squads that succeed not good players. Stones isn’t a top player yet, so £35m for potential – having only spent £2.5m on the lad makes good sense to me.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Everton will get back to selling – maybe Stones will go for £40m+, if he has a good Euros, maybe Barkley, for similar reasons, because it’ll be after the Euros and because they are facing having to replace Baines, Jagielka and Barry in the next couple of seasons. The difference with Everton is the intention to reinvest that money in a balanced squad. We haven’t actually spent that little, but our recruitment policy focuses upon the paper upside of any one young player, rather than the footballing needs of our current squad. If McLaren can shift that mind set, we’ll have a better team and the club would probably find that more of its young signings come through strongly, so that the business model works better. Still Shelvey for me.
GTE(Quote)
“Where as Everton have a ambition to make Everton as good as they can possibly be and keeping hold of your best players and building on that is key to their thinking. ”
Indeed just not when they sold Arteta, Fellaini, Johnson, Lescott, Rodwell, Rooney etc.
People in america & china paying ridiculous sums to watch Man utd is the real reason Everton could resist big money offers for Stones, Otherwise he’d have been off like the rest
CC(Quote)
CC – Keep up please. I am talking about now when the TV money is so big.
Stuart79(Quote)
Sharpy – I really see no point in selling Stones when he has 4 years left on his contract, will have more international experience next year and will in all likelyhood have a good European Championship behind him. If, as touted the likes of Barca, Man Utd and Real Madrid are all now interested in him also, it means that his value will only go one way. Obviously Everton think keeping him will give them a better chance of having a good season and they know his value will only increase. It really doesn’t make any sense selling him last summer. But my whole point is, that if it was us, we would have sold him which in itself puts a negative cloud over the club and the players left there.
Stuart79(Quote)
We don’t actually have a bad record on selling. Or do we?
Caroll? Impossible at that stage to refuse.
Ba – get out clause
Cabaye – ditto
Debuchy – no big loss and an instant replacement.
My beef is with the obvious mistakes in letting Abeid, Benny and Santon go. And of course not selling Cisse!
georgio(Quote)
We don’t, in fact, have a bad record on selling, no, but we have a pretty poor record of buying – largely because we don’t plan our buys to build a balanced squad in which they might thrive.
GTE(Quote)
Now there’s something I can agree with GTE!
georgio(Quote)
On the face of it, it does look like we’ve been successful sellers but then, why are we where we are? Would we have had a better team if we hadn’t have sold them? Or would we actually have been relegated? If it is the latter then yes we have done the right thing, but it doesn’t exactly say alot for the way the club is ran if that’s the case.
Stuart79(Quote)
GTE – We base all our buys on ‘value’ and not on what the squad actually needs. That’s one of the reasons why we have such a poorly balanced squad IMO.
Stuart79(Quote)