Team News:
Newcastle United:
It’s fair to say that the fans have been calling out for quality defensive reinforcements for several transfer windows now and yet again the club failed to address the area in January. As a result, we were one injury away from crisis and hey presto! Chancel Mbemba has now been ruled out for several weeks with an ankle injury. His replacement Jamaal Lascelles got himself sent off so misses out today leaving only Captain Fabricio Coloccini and an injury prone hot and cold running Steven Taylor available, who will be lacking match sharpness. At left back Paul Dummett has aggravated his hamstring and sits out for a while whilst Massaido Heidara remains absent until mid March with a knee complaint. Kevin Mbabu returns to the squad carrying a knock and may have to fill in again. Jack Colback (hamstring) is out until next week at the earliest whilst Vurnon Anita and Gabriel Obertan are carrying the same injury. Siem De Jong (eye) may or may not return to the squad today. Tim Krul and Curtis Good are out for the season. Seydou Doumbia is not fit enough to start according to McClaren, but Cheick Tiote returns to the squad following his collapsed move to China. Youngsters Callum Williams, Liam Gibson and Dan Barlaser have all been training with the first team this week.
West Bromwich Albion:
Jonny Evans and James Morrison (both hamstring) are out for 3 and 5 weeks respectively. Callum McManaman has been ruled out by an ankle injury until the beginning of March whilst Chris Brunt (calf strain) is expected back next week. Otherwise it’s a clean bill of health for the Baggies even though Tony Pullis has hinted that Newcastle transfer target Saido Berahino is unlikely to start as he gathers match fitness. Expect him to come off the bench and put us to the sword then….
Shamrock’s stats and facts:
1) The first ever game between these sides took place in 1898, finishing 3-0 to to the Magpies.
2) West Brom have failed to win on the road in the last 6 attempts.
3) Newcastle have won 6 of their 9 home Premier League games in this fixture.
4) Victor Anichebe has scored more times against the Toon than any other PL side (5).
5) West Bromwich Albion have scored 39% of their goals from headers this season, a PL high.
6) Newcastle have filed to keep a clean sheet for 9 games.
Referee:
Officiating today is 44-year-old Lee Mason from Bolton. Of the 19 Toon games he has officiated since 2010, Newcastle have won only 6. He has taken only one Magpies fixture against the Baggies, which took place at the Hawthorns and finished 1-0 to West Brom. Lee Mason caused controversy when he failed to award Newcastle a stone-wall penalty when we were 1 goal down against Liverpool in April 2015. Lovren hacked down Perez and Liverpool went on to win 2-0. Overall though, he is a steady and experienced referee that generally gets the big calls right. He’s just not a lucky omen for us!
Kick off at 15:00, St. James’ Park.
Lineups:
Toon: 21 Elliot, 22 Janmaat, 27 Taylor, 2 Coloccini, 16 Aarons, 12 Shelvey, 24 Tioté, 7 Sissoko, 5 Wijnaldum, 25 Townsend, 45 Mitrovic. Substitutes: 17 Pérez, 23 Saivet, 26 Darlow, 28 Doumbia, 35 Gibson, 40 Williams, 47 Barlaser.
Baggies: 1 Foster, 25 Dawson, 23 McAuley, 3 Olsson, 4 Chester, 5 Yacob, 30 Sandro, 8 Gardner, 24 Fletcher, 14 McClean, 10 Anichebe. Substitutes: 13 Myhill, 15 Pocognoli, 17 Lambert, 18 Berahino, 20 Pritchard, 29 Sessegnon, 33 Rondón.
HWTL
TAE
Rules are rules mate. What I posted was a copy and paste job from the rules. It’s obvious that the 2 were in an offside position and obvious that they obstructed the goalkeepers vision. So it’s offside and not a goal.
This isn’t like arguing whether Tiote or Saivet should play next week, this is matter of fact. That’s the offside rule. You can argue all you like that the rule should be different, but how would you like it if they had a player in front of our goalkeeper while someone else scored the equaliser?
There’s healthy bias towards your own club and there’s just blinkers…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
they were joging back to get on side so hows that interfearing with play there was plenty of gap between them and the keeper so ya argument has no legs
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Hope Chelsea are this poor next Saturday. They’re terrible!
Stuart79(Quote)
TAE
Simple. Because they were still in offside positions and because they blocked the view from the goalkeeper to Tiote so Foster couldn’t see the ball properly.
It’s the law, it’s as simple as that. Nobody is saying that our players were doing it deliberately. But look at the goal again, it’s 99% sure that Foster would have saved it if he’d seen it properly.
Show me one article written by a professional who says the goal should have been given.
As I said, this isn’t an opinion. This is a fact. It was correct for the goal to have been disallowed by the letter of the offside rule.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
<<<<<<<<<<<< has seen plenty of goals given were players are offside and a lot closer to the keeper than they were
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
he was beaten by the swerve on the ball he could not see it is a pityfull excuse
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
We’ve actually got a better squad now IMO. Barton is not a parch on Shelvey, Nolan isn’t on Wijnaldum. Mitrovic should get better than Shola and Carroll, although they are not an exact comparison as each had their own style. I think it is going to take time though for more consistency and the defence is a perennial concern.
DJG(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
and how can the linesman say his view was blocked from were he was stood ?
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
here a squad for next season
GK (3) – Krul, Elliot, Darlow
LB (2) – Dummett New (Williams?)
RB (2) – Janmaat, Mbabu
CB (4) – Mbemba, Colo, Lascelles (Matip or N’Koulou?)
CDM (3) – Tiote Saivet, Colbeck
CAM (4) – Shelvey, Gini, Sissoko, SDJ
W (3) – Townsend, Aarons, New (Baradi, Kainz or Insigne)
ST (4) – Mitrovic, Perez, Armstrong New (Doumbia or Batshuayi)
Playing 4 – 1 – 3 – 2 or 4 – 1 – 4 – 1
Premandup(Quote)
TAE
It was the linesman who gave offside but from his position, how could he see if Mitrovic was in the line of the ‘keepers vision or not? I think it didn’t help that two players were standing in an offside position mind. Sod this Interfering with play’ rubbish, if the last player who touched it was Tiote and the ball hits the back of the net, it’s a goal in my opinion. If the keeper lost sight of the ball, tough s##t. That’s football, there are 22 players and a ref on the pitch.
DJG(Quote)
DJG
agrees with your summing up,think tiote was robbed meself 😉
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
No it wasn’t a bloody goal! It doesn’t matter what position the referee or his assistants were in. The fact is that by the letter of the law, it shouldn’t have been given as a goal, so the decision was right.
This isn’t an opinion thing. This is a black and white thing. The rules say the goal should not have been given and it wasn’t given.
Object to the rule, not the (correct) interpretation of the rule.
Would you like it if players constantly stood in front of Elliot to obscure his vision from long shots?
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
the ref was in a better position to see and he give the goal as for standing in front of the keeper they were a good 10 yards away from him not like they stood within a yard of the keeper is it
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
the keeper made a pityfull excuse that he could not see it to cover his error, that ball was fired at him from a good 40 yards,so dint be given me any **** that he could not see it coming
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
PREMANDUP
New left back needed for sure as nobody seems to nail that position down, new centre back needed too as only Mbemba looks like a starter next season.
Up front I think it depends on whether Armstrong is deemed as ready and also where they see Perez playing. Then it depends on what formation we’re going to play.
Suspect we’ll look to signing 3 first teamers (LB, CB and Striker). Hopefully won’t lose any players we want to keep but there’s always a chance of that…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Prem – I like the look of that mate, but do you think that Tiote & SDJ will be there next season? – Colo is another I wouldn’t be sure of either personally.
Sharpy17(Quote)
TAE
I have no clue what point you’re arguing. The fact is that the law states the goal should have been disallowed and it was. All of your arguments are irrelevant.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
the rottweiler did not even try to get a touch thats the point here
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
and the only way that should of been disallowed is if he tryed to get a touch on the ball
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
My opinion on Tiotes goal is that if it was scored against us and stood I’d be ****** right off – so law or no law, I think it was right to disallow it.
The linesman didn’t flag so he was happy to let it stand, and the ref overruled it.
Sharpy17(Quote)
<<<<<<<<<<<< saw no effort to get a touch on the ball from the rottweiler so goal stands
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE
Read the offside law mate and then get back to me. It’s pretty obvious you don’t understand it.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
would say ya dint understand it yaself did you see the rottweiler try to get a touch on it thats interferance if ya answer is no then the goal should of stood
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE
I read it earlier. Go read it and then get back to me. What you’re saying is irrelevant and proves you don’t understand it. Just go read it will ya?
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
its you dont seem to understand the letter of the law answer me question did you see the rottweiler try to get a touch ?
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
<<<<<<<<<<< understands why ya dint want to answer me question,shoots ya argument down in flames dont it buddy
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE
I’m bored now. Either go and read the rule or continue to argue from a standpoint of ignorance. I even posted the crucial part of the rule in post 297 but you’re being too rude to spend just a few seconds reading and understanding it.
Your choice.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
still no answer to me question sums up how much ya dint understand the offside rule or interferance
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE TDS since we scored it, it should have been allowed. If they had scored it, it would have been clearly offside. What’s the proble,
premandup(Quote)
Thanks TDS for your explanation and I think you are quite entitled to your view and I agree if the two NUFC players were obstructing the goalkeepers view then the goal should not stand. But I do not think either of our players did obstruct his view. His view was just as likely obstructed by his own players in the box. What I can agree on is that the rule of not interfering when in an offside position is impossible to adjudicate with any consistency. I thought though that in cases of doubt refs were supposed to favour the attacker.
Sharpy. I was at the game and the ref did not overrule the linesman. The ref gave a goal. The linesman did not initially raise his flag and only did so following protests from the WBA players (something they did for every decision against them.) After consulting the linesman he gave a goal kick.
Groucho(Quote)
PREMANDUP
I know what you’re saying mate…but a person looks pretty **** stupid when arguing a point when it’s obvious that they’re 100% wrong. I’m not going to come on here and argue against every penalty given against us and claim every red card our players receive should just have been a yellow.
Someone can disagree with me about the potential of Mitrovic or that McClaren should be given more games, but a person looks pretty stupid when telling me that black is white or white is black…
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
GROUCHO
Now I can respect the fact that you don’t think our players were obstructing the view. At least you’re arguing an opinion point! But I disagree there. When I watched MotD last night, they showed an overhead view and it was pretty clear that the view was obstructed. I just tried to find a video online to share but I can’t.
I am a little dubious about the late decision making from the referee though…and I do wonder what influenced the end decision. But I (sadly) think it was the right decision. Has any pundit said otherwise?
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
The only one I could find was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3y3VRZdw8w
Which looks to be very unfairly ruled out! The goalkeeper may have been put off by wondering if the Newcastle attacker was going to get a touch on it or not, but he didn’t touch the ball, didn’t appear to try and touch the ball and wasn’t obstructing Hart’s view. That one should have been given.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
@296. You are assuming those players get played every week. That rarely happens for anybody in any team. Every member of a 25 man squad should get plenty of game time through squad rotation, I juries, suspensions and International call ups. Some will play more than others but that’s the reality of having a squad of players with varying levels of ability and experience.
As for having 5 CB’s and the ‘problem’ it would create – show me a recent season where having only 4 CB’s has been a good thing for us?
Shamrock(Quote)
TDS In my view it’s a stupid rule and one refs find difficult to interpret so I don,t wish to criticise refs on this. How the hell it can be ruled a player in the box is not interfering with play is beyond me but goals are often given in these circumstances. I would favour a return to the old rule – offside is offside and then we would not be quibbling about whether our two players were offside. Clearly they would have been.
Groucho(Quote)
As for the Tiote goal. I agree under the current rules it obstructed the keepers view and therefore should not have counted.
Shamrock(Quote)
SHAMROCK
There are many problems with a squad of that size. You’ve basically come up with 25 players, all of whom would expect considerable game time in a season. Not even the likes of Man City and Chelsea with their huge wages, challenging for multiple trophies and of course the extra games that the CL brings, can keep a squad that big happy. It’s un realistic to think that we could. In fact, it’s impossible.
Every club goes through injury issues, that’s nothing new. But all that happens if players are training well but can’t get into the team because the incumbent is playing well, is that the player gets pissed off and causes disharmony in the squad eventually.
I just don’t think you’re being realistic about where our football club is and the dynamics of a squad.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
GROUCHO
There has to be a line somewhere and there are always going to be some people unhappy. I’d like to see goals like Tiote’s given when nobody actually interfered to cause the goal. Like the Man City one, I think that should have been given.
I agree it was simpler when offside was offside but fans still got frustrated when goals were disallowed when nobody actually interfered with putting the ball in the net.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
TDS pretty much every PL side has a full squad of 25… I’m going to have to massively disagree with you. You don’t get to challenge for Cups or European spots with only 14 or 15 good players and the rest undeveloped or rubbish. Each to their own I guess.
Shamrock(Quote)
Yes the top sides have smaller squad sizes, but they also have a bank of the very best up and coming players on the planet to call upon. Any sides outside the top 5 or 6 don’t have that luxury and instead have a full quota of 24 or 25.
Shamrock(Quote)
There is a guy called Remy Cabella tearing PSG apart on BT Sport. We should maybe take a chance on him
Toby Le Rhone(Quote)
Nah. Not made for the PL. Same as Thauvin. Performances in the French league can’t be used as a yard stick for direct comparison with performances in the PL.
Shamrock(Quote)
Isn’t every player in the vicinity ‘interfering with play’?
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu, Exactly, it’s as clear as mud, why they got to keep messing about with it is beyond me, not sure even the players understand it anymore. I agree with Groucho@335 would be better to return to the original offside law. For such a simple game we ain’t half made it complicated 🙄
kimtoon(Quote)
Strictly speaking he wasn’t interfering with play but rather an opponent by the letter of the law by blocking his vision. Still harsh though. 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
TDS: I realise you are only quoting a rule but try the physics … put a guy 35 yards away from a gk and another 10 yards away and then try and line them up so that you can’t see the guy 35 yards away. Add to that the goalkeeper try NOT to do this and it’s almost impossible to obstruct adequate vision.
Remember that decisions are made on certainty not probablities. The ref must be sure a foul has taken place, a linesman has to be sure a ball is over the line to give a throw-in. It’s about certainty. It’s no good a ref saying he gave a penalty because he thought it was most likely a foul. So, in this offside scenario, what degree of certainty were the officials using for them to know that the goalkeeper was unsighted by a player in an offside position?
It was a great goal ruled out by a bad law. The offside rule is one of the worst rules in football, and very badly policed by officials. There are many times when they might as well toss a coin to decide on whether offside occurred or not.
Brisvegas(Quote)
For me the debate on this blog and others then the debate by all puntids of weather it was a goal or not and refs imo are poor in genaral why not just go back to the old offside rule,debate ends,remember these sort of decisions can and do cost clubs millions of pounds
Icedog(Quote)
Ice totally agree mate, it’s a simple game made complicated by jobsworths imo.
kimtoon(Quote)
I can understand people questioning whether he was obstructing Forsters line of vision, I think the curl on the shot didn’t help matters either. But I maintain my stance – if that was given against us I’d have been pissed off, so in that respect I think it was the right call.
Ice – I agree, they have over complicated matters. The defenders managed to get out so our 2 should have too.
Same goes with handball in the box – this arm in an unnatural position – no consistency in those decisions either IMO.
Sharpy17(Quote)
I don’t think there’s much wrong with the rule. But it should be all about clear views and intentions.
– is it clearly offside? Not that his toes was a millimetre offside
– did the player in the offside position make a move towards the ball?
– did the player in question deliberately obscure the view of the goalkeeper?
That sort of thing.
Brisvegas(Quote)
I get pissed off withevery goal against us, Sharpy.
Brisvegas(Quote)
Bris – I have to be honest, there are few that I have taken my hat off to, but just they all **** me off to mate.
Sharpy17(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
ya a bit of a idiot if you dint understand what the meaning of interferance is bud and ya still did not answer me question wonder why
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TOONDARNSARF
simple yes or no will do that to hard for ya
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
the only question the ref should of considered is did the rottweiler try to get a touch on the ball if the answer was no the goal should stand
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
it also dos not matter if they were offside or not seeing as none of them tryed to get a touch on the ball,they not active unless they make movement to try to get a touch on the ball
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
so if none of them touched it how can they be offside ?
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Looks like I lost another fantasy game. That’s 4 of the last 5. Once again coming up against a side that plays out of its skin and gets above average points.
How long can this keep going? I’ve got Hitman next, and he’s only scored about 20 points in the last 10 games. What’s the betting he scores a century next time out?
Oz: you’ll have your chance to prove you are the form team next game. Aussie Mags v Shteves Shcitty. We will watch with interest.
Brisvegas(Quote)
Oh i see i won a game big one point and have moved up a place too second bottom of the fantasy league 😀
AXEL(Quote)
TAE: you do know we would have won anyway whether the Tiote “goal” stood or not? You are spending a lot of time debating something that will only be of consequence if we get relegated on goal difference of minus one more than the next worst team. It will not affect any rulings going forward either as I doubt those overseeing the Refs will have anything to say about it.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
ERIC SYKES
just dint like some hillybilly telling me i dint understand the offside rule
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
I see that Taylor remains in the squad of a couple of people for next year. Is he worth the place given his injury record? Will he be content to be a backup on first teamers wages. Will Fatman pay him top dollar as a backup (it is not my money so I don’t really care if he is overpaid, but Fatty might)? If he is kept in the squad, will that make us less likely to recruit another much needed centre back thereby sending both Taylor and Coloccini to the bench? Is Lascelles good enough to be the back-up? Have Corning developed a new type of glass like they did for Iphones (Gorilla Glass) and will Taylor be made of that now and therefore play a full season?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I also think that Elliot has proved emphatically that he is the number 1 keeper if it is based on merit rather than wages and reputation. I would go so far as to sell Krul if he is not content to fight for his place as at age 28 I don’t see his distribution improving which is my number 1 knock on him.
For anyone that cares (not many I am sure) here is my assessment:
Shot-stopping – equal
Distribution – Elliot
Command of Box – Elliot
They aren’t that far apart age wise and each have a good 5-7 years left so I can’t see either being content to be a backup now. It took David Seaman ages to be recognised as a good keeper and I think that has happened to Elliot even though he is an Irish international. He is better than Mignolet who just got a 5 year deal and I bet he is on 5 times Elliot’s wages.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
From The Shields Gazette on Taylor:
“Taylor – who helped Newcastle keep a clean sheet against Manchester United at Old Trafford on his only other start this season – feels he has been “written off” at times during an injury-ravaged few years.
“When you’re not playing you’re always going to be written off,” said the former England Under-21 international.
“That’s how it is, but I get on with it. I like to prove people wrong, I’ve done that in all my years here, every time it comes round to contract negotiations, you’re always written off.”
Who exactly has Taylor proved wrong? I would say that he has proved the doubters right by playing one game and then being injured for 6 months – AGAIN. I am glad he has made ANOTHER recovery but it is one thing after another with him. Let’s see if he can last the next 13 games before he says he has proved people wrong. We are probably going to need him as MBemba is having 2 opinions on his injury this week and that is usually not a good sign.
It is funny that he is angling for a new contract after 1 game when his record over this contract shows he plays about 10 games a season.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
ERIC SYKES
thinks ya being a bit kind to mr taylor saying he plays 10 games a season 😉
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
hes a goner if they got any sense hes the main reason we can never change the cb
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Here is Taylor’s record of PL games played since he signed his last contract: 14, 25, 10, 10, 2. I like that he is a local lad and he seems to partner OK with Coloccini, but he has to be on the pitch to make a contribution. And don’t give me any BS about being good for the dressing room, he was given permission to complete his last stint of his rehab in Doha in what Chronic termed “under the regenerative powers of the sun”. I don’t know if they were taking the p!ss or not.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
would just let his contract run down and let him go meself
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Obertan – sicknote
Taylor – sicknote
Marveaux – sicknote
Haidara – sicknote
de Jong – sicknote
Aarons – sicknote
Vuckic – sicknote
Cisse – recently sicknote
The only one I would really keep is Aarons although we are probably stuck with de Jong and he might MIGHT be worth another go.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Ryder is such a bellend. Here is some of today’s blather:
“Had Newcastle lost to West Brom the doom and gloom merchants would have been out in force, but United instead now head to Chelsea with renewed optimism.
Some of United’s most hostile critics didn’t know what to do with themselves on Saturday night.
The good news is that Newcastle’s fate is now back in their own hands with 13 games to go.
Geordie fans won’t want to see their side take any chances of course, but four more wins from those last 13 games might be enough.
Given the fact Newcastle still have to face AFC Bournemouth, Swansea City, Sunderland and Crystal Palace at home, they will feel confident of getting the job done with time to spare.”
OK. Ryder is chief sports writer and Chris Waugh who sits across the desk from him wrote on Thursday McClaren should be sacked if we didn’t beat West Brom. Doom and Gloom. He is assuming full points from Palace who absolutely battered us and have one smarmy git in particular who would love to beat us. Finally he says our fate is BACK in our hands. When was it out of our hands, Lee??? Leicester proved last year you should never give up and West Ham did before when they sacked Pards. Even the most mathematically challenged knew our fate was in our own hands. Apparently maths isn’t Lee’s best subject.
Ryder makes me sick. He is having a go suggesting some fans were sad we didn’t lose. Absolute bollocks. I don’t know any fans who want us to lose. Occasionally after a bad loss I see some people suggest that a trip to the Championship will get rid of Ashley, but then as soon as we score they are back giving NUFC their full support.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
This man is a professional journalist FFS and not only does he write like a 10 year old, he thinks like one too. He says the first thing that comes into his head and **** the facts.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
he may be right about 4 wins being enough but would rather have at least 5 more wins meself
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Eric – well I don’t need to buy the morning papers now 😉 😆
Sharpy17(Quote)
What really gets on my tits is the hypocrisy and the fact that Ryder hasn’t figured out that everything is only a couple of clicks away. He backed Carver to the hilt in writing until it almost got us relegated and then never mentioned the fact again. His own paper said McClaren was doing such a bad job that Ashley should consider intervening only 4 days before Lee wrote this today. He is head of the Chron Sports so you think he would read what his colleague wrote or is Chris Waugh one of the ones who didn’t know what to do with himself on Saturday night?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
And our record against Ryder’s home bankers (they are winnable games but to suggest we should win them all is a bit naive):
Bournemouth: we scored with our only shot of the game, they had 27.
Palace: worst loss of the season (worse than Citeh) 5-1
Sunderland: 3-0 loss even though we played OK and the Ref was dodgy.
Swansea: a 2-0 stroll in the park for them
I know we have improved the squad and players have had a bit more time to settle but this is the Chief Sports writer with 20 years experience we are talking about. His backing of Carver says just about all you need to know about his football knowledge.
Eric Sykes(Quote)