1 – I’m aware of our league position.
2 – I want to discuss how far you think we are away from being a regular top-six side.
Should we finish in the top-six this season, it doesn’t automatically make us a top-six in the long term. For that to be the case we need to finish there for a few seasons so we can be considered a consolidated top-six team in the sense that we are tipped to finish up there at the start of the season. Essentially there is nothing to say that this season is just a flash in the oan, but I guess we’ll only find out next season…
It was a question raised by Pootle in a comment the other day. Basically he asked how many players everyone thought we were away from being in a position to regularly finish in the top-six, and it was a bloody good question to be fair so I thought I’d make an article out if it.
Pretty much everyone knows that our squad has limitations. Even Alan Pardew said as much the other day. To boost our ability our squad as whole still needs a lot of work done to it and it is very much still a project in working with the next stage set to be competed in the summer.
So where would you go? What positions would you sign? How much do we need strengthening? By splitting it up and drilling down into different positions I hope to come up with my own answer in this article and leave you to come up with your own afterwards.
For arguments sake I’m going to assume that none of our first team players leave or, if they do, I’m going to assume that they are replaced like for like so if well sell a midfielder I expect to see him replaced with….. a midfielder. Basically think of the first XI as it is now, and then work the squad out from that.
Goalkeeper
I actually think this is one position where we are fine. Tim Krul is proving to be one of the best on the league and isn’t exactly a sicknote so we should be fine between the sticks. Should Timmy pick up an injury I’ll be concerned as we will likely only have Rob Elliot as backup come the summer with Fraser Forster and Steve Harper heading out of the club, but I don’t think it is a priority.
Defence
Where do we start with this? I believe we need to do some major defensive work in the summer to give us much needed depth and quality. Naturally we’ll have Steven Taylor back, but his injury history isn’t good and he tends to have one long term injury each season. With that in mind we need one centre-back that can challenge the starting line up, unlike an Adrian Mariappa for example. That would give us four central defenders, or five if we sign another one as backup.
In terms of the right/left back, I think Davide Santon is learning quickly and will become a cracking player for us, but I’d like to see him on the right. With that in mind we’ll need a dedicated left-back signed in the summer. Ideally we’d keep Danny Simpson around as he could provide cover and competition for those in the first team, and with Santon and Ryan Taylor able to play on the right or left it gives us some flexibility and depth to the squad.
Midfield
I actually think we’re about fine in midfield. Centrally we have Yohan Cabaye and Cheik Tiote as starters, with Danny Guthrie, Dan Gosling, Mehdi Abeid and James Perch able to give us cover. If Guthrie goes we’ll need someone to slot into his place of course.
On the left wing I don’t think we’re too bad in truth. Jonas Gutierrez has been poor of late, but it has to be noted that he hasn’t got any competition currently and he tends to up his game suddenly when he has someone snapping at his heels wanting to get into the team. With Sylvain Marveaux and Hatem Ben Arfa able to play on the left we have that competition so the performances and squad depth should see a marked improvement on the left.
On the right we have Gabriel Obertan, Hatem Ben Arfa and Ryan Taylor to ponder. All of them have their merits and pitfalls and as yet I’m unconvinced as to who is our best option the right. Obertan’s pace is deadly, but a lack of killer instinct holds him back. Hatem Ben Arfa can produce moments of magic in attack, but he’ll also leave the right-back hopelessly exposed and Ryan Taylor gives us a threat from set pieces and crosses but doesn’t have much pace. If you could combine all three you’d have the perfect winger but right now we have to do with horse for courses.
Personally this is somewhere where I’d like to see us improve by signing someone like Junior Hoilett who can do pretty much everything a winger needs to do and has pace to burn. That one signing would give us so much depth on both wings and would pretty much sort us.
Striker
In attack we are still lightweight. Beyond Demba Ba and Papiss Cisse we don’t have an awful lot to think about, which is worrying when you consider we’ll more than likely be losing both of them to the African Cup of Nations again next year.
Once again it’s an area that needs strengthening, but it will require careful strengthening. For instance I really can’t see many strikers getting ahead of those two, so we need to have a look at strikers who will happily play backup and wait for a chance. The problem is that any striker who has a reputation for scoring goals will more than likely warrant a starting place elsewhere.
So what are we looking for? I make it, as a minimum, one right or left back, one centre back, one right winger and another striker, and remember, that is without losing any of our first teamers or assuming that we replace them with like for like replacements.
What do you think we need though?
i was suprised to hear that they are letting young paul airey(striker) leave, as people have been bigging him up for the last couple of seasons, i cant see best hanging around if hes not going to get a game, we all know sholas not the answer, like you said, a proven goalscorer is not going to come and keep the bench warm, so i cant think of a player who we could get for this one.
i think the goalkeepers we have are ok.
defo need defenders, 2 central def , a utility defender in the mould of a steve watson!!
midfield will look after its self, i’d personally let HBA leave in the summer, and buy a couple of younger players to replace him.
am sure our scouts have already identified the targets required, but its up to ashley and lambias to bring them in the beginng of the summer, time to settle in. or wait till the last day AGAIN, hoping to get a bargain, and LOSE OUT again!!!
i can see this summer transfer window being an exciting one and a nervous one for all toon fans 😐 😐
toonsoldier9(Quote)
Good article Toonsy 😉
I have recently stated on a previous thread that i would like to see no fewer than 6 players arrive in the summer.
At least 4 to command a starting position immediately at RB CB LW and RW.
For me, the two wingers aren’t good enough.
Likewise, Simpson struggles when we haven’t got our strongest central defenders playing. Some may say any player would but I disagree. I feel it’s Saylor and Colo who cover for him and make him look better than he is.
Santon looks a good prospect but he still has a lot to learn. I believe another full season and healthy competition for his place will see him improve.
Healthy competition is vital and like our wingers, they both need it. I wouldn’t sell the pair of them but they need replacing and for the pair of them to either improve and fight for their place or sell if they don’t.
I’m fairly happy with the midfield and strikers providing we keep hold of Barfa.
But for me, it’s about improving on the players we have and using our displaced players as back up and make them fight for their place back.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Toonsy, the way I see it is, we are closing in more solidly on that top 6 position in terms of cementing our place among the top sides.
We aren’t quite there yet obviously as one swallow doesn’t make a summer.
The thing is though, we have went from strength to strength since relegation, something that I don’t think any Toon fan can deny and I think we will tweak the squad at every opportunity, like fine tuning a TV.
If we carry on in the same vein as we are doing I think we can easily be regarded as a full on legitimate top 6 side and be mentioned as genuine Champions league contenders.
I know it’s a bit early for any of us to spout off be because we all know that things can change rapidly in football but I think we have hit it at the right time in getting a balance to the team in order.
Years ago, it was easy to see who the basic top 6 were as they had established squads where as most other clubs(including us) were making do as best we could and all fighting for the scraps.
All that is changing as we slowly but surely build up this squad and we are close to having some gifted youngsters added to the squad as genuine first team players.
The fact that most clubs are watching the pennies means that we are in a great position to take advantage of the next best positions from the money bags clubs because we have a great manager and a top scout all backed up by a shrewd boardroom.
I’d say within the next 2 years we will be classed as a top 6 side with champions league aspirations and following on from that ( hope rather than knowing) we can actually scare those at the top for a slice of the title.
All pie in the sky talk I know but this club is certainly better geared for success than it has been for many many a year and it’s geared for continuity of that success in my opinion.
The proof will be in the pudding and without a crystal ball, all I can say is, it’s looking a **** sight better than it’s looked for a long time and it’s all about allowing the club to take the course it’s taking with minimum fuss. 😀
wolfie(Quote)
Sorry, make that 5 as a CB is essential as well .
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Wolfie
Let’s hope Ashley consolidates and really pushes on by improving the squad size fit enough for Europe.
We’ll see. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
good blog toonsey mostly agree with wolfie 😀 TROY STAVERS if it was down to me id clear all our cb out 😛
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
I agree TROY, squad size does have to be improved and first team places have to be improved upon by either replacing those not equipped to carry us forward or coming up to scratch to prove they can.
It’s a fine balancing act and obviously the best teams don’t get to be the best without having that quality in all areas.
What I like about our set up though is, we do genuinely have a lot of top quality and that quality is the key to attracting likewise players to the club as well as nurturing the best out of the players we have that are not realising their true potential.
Add to that the fine youngsters we have and I think we have a recipe for a very successful future at this club, I really do.
wolfie(Quote)
22 milion on taylor and collo 2 to 3 mil on williamson.ins shawcross 6 million jan vertonhen 10 mil douglas free leaves ya 9 mil to spend on another centre back
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Wouldn’t get anywhere near 22m for Colo and Taylor. More like 12 at a push.
We font need major surgery, just another window of keeping hold of the first 13 or so players and improving the depth of quality. After all, we can only name a 25 man squad.
toonsy(Quote)
taylors valued at 12 toonseys
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Good article, I think if we got Douglas on a free, Hoillett for the wing on a free, Rhodes or a cheaper French/Dutch player as an extra striker for when the two Demba’s are on international duty, Maybes an additional right back and DM cover then that would be a pretty solid team. I don’t know what the likelihood of signing these players are as I’m sure Hoillett at the very least will be targeted by top four clubs when his contract expires.
lualua17(Quote)
Morning lads, hope all are well
Agree with Troy. For regular top 6, we are a bit off yet, probably 4 to 5 better first team players and that’s with holding on to nearly everyone for squad strength. Some people like our wingers, and credit where it’s due they work their nuts off, but to be top 6 or better consistently, I think the focus should be on attacking threat and end product of wingers, not their ability to cover a suspect full back for 90mins, and Obertan and Jonas fail fairly miserably in this regard. Couple of other positions need improving too, one or two controversial, but too early to be causing uproar, haven’t even had a cuppa yet!
Ideal scenario we would get the investment to do a bit of an overhaul, but as I said before, think the focus and investment is on reserve and academy clear-out and improvement (which will help in terms of squad strength long term) rather than major investment in the first team, this summer anyway.
Keith(Quote)
I think you’d be pushed to get £15m for Taylor and Colo.
richietoon(Quote)
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/550994858?-11198 found this on line earlier 2 of our players on there arsenal might be after
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@Toonsoldier9
I believe Best will be shipped out this summer. They were prepared to let him go to Celtic in January so it’s probably the writing on the wall for him.
Me personally, I like the lads attitude but I don’t think he’s good enough to challenge our strongest pairing.
He did a job for us when we were thread bare but his time maybe up.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Toonsy real good article mate and I agree with most of it. Agree 100% and thing it is real important that you pointed out that even though we’re in the top 6, we’re not a true top 6 side.
I think we’re about 4-5 players short of being regulars.
But tbh I can’t see us getting 4-5 1st team quality players, I think we will maybe get 2 proper players and a few younguns.
TAE the fact you suggest getting shot of Colo and Saylor says it all really, by the way who do you think is going to pay £22 mill for them ? 😯
Big Dave(Quote)
notice taylors price on there 😀
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@TAE
You would clear out Colo?
I disagree. All great or good sides need experience. Colo is club captain and a good role model for the youths.
He’s undoubtedly the best CB we’ve ever had at the Toon IMO and to sell him would be wrong IMO .
Troy Stavers(Quote)
BIG DAVE
so what ya saying is we keep an injure prone player plus give a 5 year contract to a near 30 year old says it all really
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE – £12m really? 😯
By whom?
Ben Arfa was rated at £30-odd million. Cabaye was rated at £12m. We got them for less 😉
Players are only worth what another team is willing to pay.
toonsy(Quote)
@Toonsy
I agree. I don’t believe Colo would generate anything more than £6m to £8m for us.
His age and short contract would dictate that.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
TROY STAVERS
i think you know ma aint ganna give collo a 5 year deal
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE….so you’re taking that £12m as fact because it says so there? 😯
No one will pay anywhere near that for Taylor imo. He’s to injury prone.
richietoon(Quote)
TAE im a big Saylor fan but there is no way we would get £12 mill for him 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
TAE…..why does it have to be a 5 year deal?….it’s debateable any other team would give him a 5 year deal either.
richietoon(Quote)
TOONSY check 14 they value taylor there at 12 mil taylor because hes never fit and collo cause he wont get 5 year deal and if you gonna take the money for collo has to be this summer really 😕
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
Taylor worth £12m if he played every game but he has played less than 50% of season for 3 years now due to injuries, nobody would pay £12m for a player like that, and as Troy said, Colo’s age works against a high fee. Unless you have a Liverpool pay stupid money then both are probably worth around £6m imo.
Keith(Quote)
Agree with Keith n Troy, I think we’re at least 4 or 5 “quality” players away from being a constant top 6 team
richietoon(Quote)
Toonsoldier9
You touch on getting a utility type player.
I’m never into that theory personally.
The best players are those who master one position only. They excel in their role instead of being an average jack of all trades.
A left back should be a left back and not be used to cover central defence. That’s down to poor planning by the. Lub and lack of investment.
It should not happen.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
TAE….Cwarr07 gets it right more than talskport 😉 😆
richietoon(Quote)
*talksport 🙄
richietoon(Quote)
BIG DAVE
i like taylor when hes in the team, just spends to much time out for me
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
TAE so we’re going to get £12mill for an injury prone player 😆 😆
As for Colo do we only work in 5yr contracts ❓ because I think you will find that Strolla never got a 5yr contract thank fuk
Big Dave(Quote)
@Keith
I didn’t know you were NUFCLINKS.
Now theres a thing I’ve learnt today. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
😆 there’s another keith isn’t there? just changed it last article, maybe should switch it back to avoid confusion…
Keith(Quote)
@TAE
I’m with Dave. Why would they have to give Colo a 5 yr contract?
Shola got 3 yrs and he’s 30, maybe 29 at the time of signing.
It really comes down to what Colo wants at the end of the day.
The won’t offer him 5 yrs but he may be happy to sign a 3 yr deal. He’s club captain and it must be an honour and big thing to walk away from.
For me, he should be given a lucrative 3 yr deal.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
TROY STAVERS@36 this is probally the last chance to sell and get most of the money back in my opion,just think we would be better off cashing in on him and investing that money into a new player meself
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
18 months down the line hes going to be worth nothing in transfer fees
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
If were on about Colo’s contract, id give him three years at the same cash with the option of more at a lower wage.
toonsy(Quote)
@Keith
I bet your real name is something very interesting like, Brandon Cranium but you try to put us off the scent with Keith. 😛
I never get people why they use their real names. Surely you’s have an imagination.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I think Colo is a very important part of our team, although I have said before for me he isn’t my type of leader, yes he leads by example but at times you need a leader to give you a good kick up the ***, and imo Colo cant do that because he is too nice and easy going. But while Saylor was in the team it worked because he would cover for Colo in that dept.
Big Dave(Quote)
@TAE
Do you just ignore his experience?
Giggs and Scholes are still playing at 38.
As I say, every great team has a blend of experience and youth. You keep your better experienced players to guide the youths.
A bit like I’m doing on here with you. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
😆 why do people use fake one’s? is it an alter-ego thing? Maybe the real Stardust has a dartboard with Mike’s face on it and hangs out at night in tree’s near Steven Taylors house hoping for a glimpse of his idol
KeithR(Quote)
Good Article
Colo for 6-8? I’d say more 2-4mill
If we do assume we’ll keep most of the squad then 4 players would do. RB, CB, versitile CB/RB altho Saylor could do this job if needed and LW (only if young Fergy doesnt come good)
Ppl are forgetting about Marv, he has plenty to offer to our rightside with Ober and Raylor.
A decent back-up GK wouldnt hurt either. At one stage we had Krul / Given / Harper..now we technically have Krul and Elliot
mark(Quote)
@BD
I’m with you on the captaincy front. I like to see a leader barking orders and someone who stamps authority in the dressing room.
I don’t see Colo as a captain but the management do and they work daily with the team so will know better than us I suppose.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Re : Colo.. can’t see him getting a 5 year deal, nor should he at the money he’d be asking.. probably has two to three years top flight football in him and if your aiming for consistent top 4 or 6, truth is he probably could be replaced with younger and potentially better.. class act against most smaller teams but lack of pace we’ve seen this season and last against quick players is a worry
KeithR(Quote)
Toonsyspot on lad 😉
TAE we are football fans imo our job is to support the team, and we should want to see us keep our best players and add to them. and we should leave the clubs financial advisors to worry about money
Big Dave(Quote)
@Troy Stavers
lol I dont have an imagination coz i use my own name 😯 🙄
give owa man
mark(Quote)
Agree with Toonsy on the positions to fill.
Mbiwa- Yanga and Vertoghen for the defence ,
Assaidi for RW ,
Dost for striker .
Troy will like Dost, similar to Carroll , a big intimidating striker (bigger built than Carroll) very good in the air with a powerful shot . Ba , Cisse and Dost could be swapped around in a game with one coming on as a subsitute.
Also , when Acon looms , Dost can easily play as a lone striker and especially with Assaidi.
Dost and Assaidi both play for Heerenveen and their goal tally is quite impressive.
sidekick(Quote)
Don’t underestimate Colo’s contribution to where we are now.
The lad is top class and he is a leader.
Him and Taylor together are a match for any defensive duo in the prem.
I think he has 5 good years left in him playing at the top so on that note I would (if I was manager) be prepared to give him a 5 year deal.
wolfie(Quote)
Just remembered that Assaidi plays for Morocco so he would be off to Acon as well.
sidekick(Quote)
TROY STAVERS@42 A bit like I’m doing on here with you. lmao what like your pearls of wisdom like we will be selling tiote to chealsea for 25 mil day before the transfer window shut lmao 😆
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@Mark
You definitely have an imagination. You’re Dwayne Mungo. Calling yourself Mark is genius! 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Keithr @43 have you been stalking Stardy 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
@TAE
I can’t be right all the time fella. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Troy
D Mungo is a alias too, he wears night vision goggles and runs about the streets after midnight in his underpants chasing pigeons
mark(Quote)
TROY STAVERS
do you not think collo lacks pace
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@Dwayne
I think I met you when I was feeding the pigeons at the monument at midnight.
I’ve got alias’s for them all. I never call them by the first names! 😆
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@TAE
I agree Colo is not the fastest. If he was you would be right about his value of £16m but because he’s not but makes up for it with positional play and composure I value him at £6m. 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I’d say we are one decent striker, one quality defender who can play across the back four, a quality left back, a holding midfielder and and wingers away from seriously challenging the top four on a consistent bases.
If we filled three of those positions. Ie. Fullback, holding midfielder/defender, and a winger we would be considered top six.
JJ(Quote)
TROY STAVERS maybe its just me but i prefer a to have more pace in the team
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@Sidekick
I would take Carroll back at the drop of a hat still.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Troy divnt listen to those pigeons, they’ll tell you owt m8, they told me Krul was off to Spurs a few months ago, theyve been laughing at me ever since 😛
mark(Quote)
@Sidekick carrol back yes please 😆
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
can we not fob-off Barfa in a straight exchange for Carroll
I love to see carroll back here & if we sell Ba in the summer, Carroll could be the perfect foil for Cisse..
mark(Quote)
@Dwayne
That will be the same pigeon that told me Tiote was off! 😯
I know they are laughing at me everytime I go to feed them. 😆
I can tell the way they all go together, woo coo coo coo coo! Woo Coo coo coo ! 🙂
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@Troy
aye, that’ll be the same ones. One has a little tash and wears a pair of monster-munch crisps as shoes? the other pretends hes dead, hes been there for weeks playing dead, thats where my NV goggles come in, I’ll catch him out soon!
I don’t talk to them now since they ate all of my bread I was feeding to the ants..
mark(Quote)
@Dwayne
That pigeon who plays dead actually used to be in the 1970’s cop series, The Sweeney. He walked on behalf of the flying squad as a stool pigeon. 😯
On football, I don’t believe Ba will sold in the summer. It would be a travesty. I would love to see Ba Cisse and Carroll in the same squad.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
TROY STAVERS now that would be an attack to take us to top 4 league i think just got to get this defence sorted 😛
TOONARMYELITE(Quote)
@Troy
ah well, he gets my respect if hes an established actor. I’ll not shout ‘booo’ at him any more..
Yes me too. I think Krul, Tiote and Ba will be off followed by MR Ashley in the Summer of 2013.. 😯 u heard it here 1st folks
mark(Quote)
Clyne, Douglas, M.Davies, Hoilett, Jay Rodriguez! (obviously depending we don’t lose anyone big).
dan4toon(Quote)
@Dwayne
You say;
Yes me too. I think Krul, Tiote and Ba will be off followed by MR Ashley in the Summer of 2013.. u heard it here 1st folks
You just haven’t learned from my mistake have you? Put that pigeon in a pie. 😆
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Alright Lads/Lasses? I’ve not posted on here in what seems like ages…still read daily though! 😛
Interesting article as always and i’ve always got 5 minutes for a game of “your the manager” 😆
Personally I would say we are still 6 players away from being a consistent top 6 team as well as some of the young lads pushing on a lot such as Vuckic and Fergy. 1 decent CB, 1 decent RB, competition for LB, 1 pacey winger (with a final ball), 2 Strikers (1 as cover and one to push the first team).
The first team is good enough but we need more competition and more strength in depth.
CB: Douglas or Yanga-M’Biwa or Tomkins
RB: N Clyne
LB: Pieters or M’Bengue
W: Hoilett
ST: S Fletcher (once Wolves go down)
ST: L de jong (this one may be a little bit fantasy football 😆 )
Oblong(Quote)
@Troy 😆
This pigeon has a source m8, he knows a magpie that used to visit St James.. he said a storm was brewing up there.. 😛
But I honestly believe if players are gone in the summer..big players.. and the SD naming rights drag on, I can see Pards walking out followed by Ashley next summer..
but don’t shoot the messenger tho..
mark(Quote)
Our two most urgent positions are left wing and right wing. With guti and oba we essentially playing with 2 left and right backs as they offer nothing in attack. Guti is a ringht winger in my opinion as he has no left foot and never cuts in to cross on his right!!! As for oba he always takes too many touches and gives the defender time to get in the block.
billy12(Quote)