We have all debated the lack of strength in depth in defence and up front. We all have our own thoughts on why we are weak in certain positions and why we have not spent as much as some would have liked. We seem to fall into two trains of thought. This is not a rigid definition, but loosely described the two camps…
1) The owner is gambling with our future by penny pinching and trying to keep costs as low as possible in order to make his money back as soon as possible and sell the club for as much profit as possible. He refuses to take a chance on investing in the squad, even though it could take us to the next level.
2) The club is falling nicely within the Financial Fair Play guidelines and stands to benefit in the long run. The owners will not be held to ransom for players in cases where clubs ask above and beyond what our club feels is fair value for a player. We have adopted a methodical, patient approach to out transfer dealings that has seen the club grow in stature and be better equipped to compete in the future without the risk of administration or even liquidation biting us in the ***.
I recently published an article pointing out that although we could have more quality in depth and could have spent more during the summer window, we actually have enough existing depth to be able to compete at a similar level to last season. We have kept all of our big hitters and even signed a few. Meanwhile players like Steven Taylor and Sylvain Marveaux will feel like new signings – plus we have a number of youth players that finally appear ready for some regular action. We can cope.
That said, just 2 or 3 more quality signings could have ensured that we were strong on all fronts this season. Squad morale would have been better than it is now (possibly), genuine competition for places in the team will have been created (of which there is little of) and the crowd will have been a tad more bullish and full of voice during games – giving us that 12th man factor.
There is never any guarantee that a few semi-expensive signings will be a success, but maybe it would appease the fans and show a more substantive signal of intent. Perhaps our current approach to success for the club is a good one, but is not sexy enough for some fans?
We all know that throwing money around does not guarantee success, but there is the argument that if we can obtain quality players on the cheap via fantastic scouting, then why cant we apply the same approach at the same time as actually spending a few bob on one or two faces that will undoubtedly propel us to the next level? There are many very good arguments to be had from both sides of the coin, but nobody can dispute that we currently have the best squad we have seen in probably a good decade or so – having spent relatively little.
The Freddy Shepherd days may have been all glamour and big name signings – sexy on the outside, but riddled with debt and risky management on the inside – whereas the Mike Ashley Ashley days are all about being well oiled on the inside, albeit not a lot to get the heart pumping on the face of it. Feel free to go into depth on the subject on the comments section, but just out of interest I’d like you to cast your vote on one simple question – take your time to really think about this before registering your reply.
[poll id=”71″]
can you please say who these Big hitters are that we have signed this summer, i havnt seen any and as for S taylor been like anew signing beggars belief. Are you related to Lee Ryder?
bazza(Quote)
Bazza, yr a ******. !!!
Porciestreet(Quote)
It’s all well and good us being well run financially and not being held to ransom, but the playing side will inevitably suffer. Yes we have a good squad, but Anita and a couple of promising youngsters aside it’s pretty much the same as last year, with drastically less depth in the striker department. Whereas looking around us our rivals have strengthened so in relative terms we’ve stood still at best. Players coming back from injury being like new signings is an excuse to duck questions about a lack of investment. Keeping our big hitters is a good thing, but why is it we seem to be the only club in the league OPENLY panicking about losing them, you don’t see the clubs that finished near the bottom worrying, so why should we, if a bid comes in for Cisse for example, we tell the bidder to get stuffed, it isn’t rocket science. Mike ashley’s financial prudence may have the books in good shape, but i’m skeptical about how it will benefit the team, there’s already rumours of discontent among the squad due to a lack of investment. And the negative consequences of a perceived lack of ambition are two fold. 1) we’ll struggle to attract good quality players to continue improving. 2) we’ll have the good players we do have wanting to leave because they want to play in the champions league and win things.
Chris(Quote)
Nicely written article. Bazza I think he was referring to Anita and obviously we didn’t get more than him but I’d consider him a big hitter. If we’d have got Debuchy it would have been two but we refused to be stuffed about. As for Saylor it is more the sentiment that we really missed him last year but still did very well. There is still the possibility of seeing him and collo be our first choice pairing, sadly it seems one of them is always injured. Ash has shown with players like Collo, Cisse and Anita he is not afraid to shell out a decent amount to get a good player.
Charlietoon(Quote)
The club will not spend a penny more than it earns. So every deal must keep us within budget. I do get you have to spend to accumalte and all that but I argree with the clubs policy of only ever spending what we earn. They are taking the slow approach to re building the club. I fully support it. Doesnt mean I will understand everything they do ( such as name change ) but I like the direction we appear to be going.
Johno Toon(Quote)
it seems some people are happy to play second fiddle,unless you invest in quality when your on a roll you will not progress, porcie
bazza(Quote)
Simply put, it is many years since our club was as stably run as it is now and that includes the time with SBR in control of the team. There is a firm financial base on which to build, a terrific group of younger talent and crucially a team spirit we haven’t seen since Sir Bob. By big hitters I presume the article is referring to Anita and Bigi. I believe Anita will prove to be just that although it might be a bit premature to include Bigi although the signs are good. Lawrenson raised an interesting point yesterday when he suggested that Pardew (in reference to his alleged dissing of Everton) would be happy to have a great number of the Everton team at Newcastle. Exactly how many would be preferred over what we have? Fellaini, Baines, maybe Jelavic – but you could argue over that one. After that you would be struggling imo although of course there are several who would strengthen the squad – but the first eleven? I don’t know.
ballerfan2(Quote)
They are never going to please all fans and will never please any fan 100%. I think it’s fair to say some fans still hold on to the Dennis Wise days and it’s also fair to say that this board has made some big mistakes since taking over.
That said, I’d have to say that in the main, I’m happy with the way the club is being ran. I’d have sooner seen 2-3 more in in Jan, but Lpool have proven that throwing money at new players doesnt guarantee you success. Overall opinion – we similar to my school reports – ‘not bad, but could do better!’ 🙄
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy I can understand why some fans have their feeling towards the board , once bitten twice as shy. But I do feel we have made some massive strides on and off the field.
Bazza @ 6 I dont think people are happy to play second fiddle but more a realisation that where we are at the moment. I dream / hope / belive we will one day win Champions league. But we are a long way away from that standard and know the likes of Man U Man city chelsea ( to name but a few ) are a head of us. Should we all just pack it in now becasue we do play second fiddle to those clubs at the moment?
Johno Toon(Quote)
If I was a SD Shareholder I would be happy
B1GSTEVE(Quote)
Personally, I dont think it has anything to do with transfer fees but more the clubs stance on the so called “Agents” who are bleeding the game dry, I recall one deal falling through because a player had 3 agents and they all wanted a fee and that cannot be right.
Pardew also had a swipe at them also once the window shut and the story doing the rounds about player unrest has to be Cabaye who is currently performing with a face like a smacked ****, again unrest caused by agents.
I also believe that Ashley was stung big style by Allerdyce and his reckless purchases and it wont happen again.
Robert(Quote)
It’s easy to say things like we’re “well run” whilst in 140million pounds of debt, double that of when Ashley took over. Just because he doesn’t want any back yet we’re ‘well run’. That said debt is also holding us back from spending an extra one or two million on a decent player like a Debuchy. We’re allegedly showing our stadium can be sponsored to the tune of a new cabaye every year (according to dekka), even though any decent company could imagine their name on our stadium (nice if you’re part of the board of the company using us as a billboard).
Also easy to say we don’t get “held to ransom” because we go in with silly, normally derisory offers, unsettle players then try get them on the cheap because they’re unhappy and don’t want to say. With the Debuchy deal it was reported that we were offering measly amounts, whilst Lille understandably wanted a bit more we just don’t seem to meet in the middle so we let them sweat with an unhappy player, but we still need the player before january or we wouldn’t have bothered bidding!
NO-ONE is asking for silly amounts on players like Pardew keeps reminding us we can’t compete with your chelsea, but everyone points to one good summer then a lucky season with injuries and stuff so all of a sudden we can’t complain even though Pardew wanted a few extra players this season and ended up with the one senior player in a position we didn’t really need.
Everything other than the football side is well run, but that is not what us supporters care about. Yes we lucked into fifth but what was the point if we aren’t going to push on?
Pardiola(Quote)
It’s clearly not as black and white as the question suggests. We are much better off with Ashley than with a complete incompetent buffoon like Shepard. However after the first couple of seasons under Ashley where he deliberately lied and misled the supporters I still question his motives. Does he want to profit from owning Newcastle? There is no doubt the answer is yes. Does he want success for the club with as little investment as possible? The answer to this would have to be yes also. Will he accept a lack of success (a lack of silverware) as long as he profits from his ownership? I think the answer to this is yes as well sadly.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Any proof to back up that statement pardiola? shephards era was like the good old days of our economy. a lie. we didn’t have the money we just went crazy on credit. ashley loaned us money to pay off these debts so we didn’t have to pay extortionate interest fees. when Freddie was here we had the 5th highest wages in the league but finishing in mid table mediocrity.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
I find it amazing that some fans aren’t happy with how we are being run. sure i wanted a more productive transfer window, but that doesn’t.take away from the great strides we are taking towards the future.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Quick honesty poll: how many of the fans that said we weren’t happy with how we are being run would have also said no last season? come on be honest.
Maybe not immediately, but this path we are taking will seriously pay off in the end.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
To be completely fair the other side of the coin is: we get to watch good football by a well managed side, we don’t have that money grubbing Owen sitting on the bench with a face long enough to trip him, we are capable of out-performing sides with much higher wage packets (ManU and Chelsea last season for example) and we do have a chance of winning something in the next few years (not a big chance with Ashley but a chance none the less).
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Well thought out article Shamrock. Our young players alone are reason to have a positive outlook but if several don’t develop very well we may have a difficult period in the next couple of season because I think Champions League and its revenues are beyond us with Ashley style spending even with the FFP rules taking effect. The greater TV revenue will help but the presence of Llambias is a huge negative for me as far as improving the squad is concerned.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Robert @ 11 agree about agents. They are a blight on the game. Until the day where players pay their agents out of their own pockets it will be a serious problem in the game. They gain the most out of transfers , and only too happy to unsettle a player for their own gain. Players wouldnt be listening to their agents half as much if they had to pay their fees. Players can always get the players union ( the pfa I think ) to neogiate contracts on their behalf for free.
Johno Toon(Quote)
Bazza – This article is not a PR stunt for Mike Ashley – I’ve tried to stay impartial as I have mixed feelings on the subject.
Over all though, our squad is currently better from top to bottom than it has been in a long time, we are in Europe have managed positive results recently against the very top sides. All of this has been achieved using the same transfer strategy as the one we have just witnessed this summer!
As for the Stevie Taylor comment you made – don’t take things too literally. I’m merely pointing out that he and Marveaux were out for the majority of last season. We achieved a lot without them. This season we have them back – that can only be a good thing in terms of squad strength – unless you see their coming back as a bad thing?!
Yeah, Lee Ryder is my 3rd cousins aunties brother in laws nephew… 😆
Interesting results so far and good points being made.
Shamrock(Quote)
Solanostrumpet I was waiting for you to come along my little stalker
, aye it’s called the company accounts mate it’s all out in the public domain, think a lad on here is an accountant he done excellent reviews on our accounts last couple of years, you can even see the debt increasing on the last few.
I’m not saying I want to return to our shepherd days, far from it, why is it one extreme or the other with the apologists? I’m not asking for 16m players on 100k a week, so please don’t revert to the shepherd days argument of over spending. I would maybe like to pay off some of our debt to jabba instead of bragging about how well run we are and spending nothing, whilst taking in money from new 3rd strips, members accounts (which was meant to be going into the academy and rumours are we haven’t got category 1 status yet) stuff like that.
Why aren’t sports direct paying for advertising? We could use that to pay off our some debt? I’d rather get sponsored by greggs or the frigging ***** factory for a couple mil a year and actually get something for having the stadium look like a billboard, then maybe we could pay off some debt or use that extra one or two mil to buy a player we need. But mike is doing it for free for SD and their shareholders are happy how much publicity have they had? They wanted 8-10 million a season we could have had “two cabayes” as dekka said or at least 16 million off our 140 million pound debt?
Pardiola(Quote)
@Pardiola
1) If the debt is increasing surely that is a sign we should curb our spending? (I don’t think it is increasing btw so would like to see these accounts)
2) Would you have said our club was being badly run a year ago?
3) Were you wrong?
@Bazza & Chris questions 2 & 3 also apply to you.
Fully agree with Johno toon. Don’t understand every decision, but the general direction since we’ve been promoted is incredibly pleasing.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Again, I can’t comment on the SD advertising being for free without seeing the accounts. I assume it is reducing the debt to Ashley. Whether or not I agree with it, I’m not sure, but definitely wouldn’t say that it meant they were running the club badly.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
(THIS IS A GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING. THIS POSTER IS LIABLE TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR POINT OF VIEW. ONLY ENGAGE IF YOU AREN’T SENSITIVE AND DON’T TAKE HISSY FITS)
@B&B
Just a quick one as I’m on night shift and haven’t been on today.
I noticed your Liverpool swipe at me.
I just don’t get the Liverpool hatred thing.
It’s pathetic and I owe no one an apology.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I don’t see any evidence of Cabaye looking like a smacked **** on the pitch. At the Villa game he was smiling as he walked over and clapped the fans in the East stand. I would agree he hasn’t looked fully fit and so far has not looked the player he was last year but I don’t think he is the kind of player who would deliberately hold back.
Groucho(Quote)
It seems we talk about this thing almost every day (no offense Shamrock) so i’ll keep it short and sweet. I’m generally happy with the way we’re run and the direction in which we’re moving. However there have still been many **** ups by the board and I’ll always be nervous with Mike in charge, and likely always be angry as long as Llambias is at the club. The summer was alright, generally improving in terms of quality (I think we’ll only really miss Bestie-but I suppose you could argue he may have been injured for 6months or whatever anyway) But I do think we missed a big opportunity this to challenge/supplant transitional clubs like Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool.
For that, I think we could have made far more progress on our 5 year plan in a much shorter space of time, but I’ll see what the board get up to and where we go from here, and hope we improve.
@7 I would have Pienaar in a flash. In the 4-3-3 we were playing last year he could have covered any number of positions, in terms of going forward he offers more than Jonas and it would lessen our dependence on Cabaye for creativity.
Newkie(Quote)
Not an expert on tax or an accountant but I would be surprised if SD are not paying for the ground adverts to gain tax advantages.
Groucho(Quote)
Groucho-How about when he got tackled, Anita ( I think?) had a throw in to take, Cabaye was right next to him but sitting down, pissing about, not getting up, eager for the ball, or looking all the bothered about playing on.
To be fair it may just be a personality trait, he’s pulled his stroppy stuff before and it may just be a result of his nationality… 😛
I think the problem is he’s playing poorly, and that combined with a “poor” summer means people think he is disillusioned. Not as black and white for me, he was desperately looking to celebrate when he almost scored, just think things aren’t clicking.
Newkie(Quote)
Newkie – You are right, problem is this debate was being had all over the place. Thought it would be good to dedicate a thread to it as a result and get an actual figure put on our fans’ thoughts on the subject…In the broadest sense of course!
Shamrock(Quote)
Google is your friend solanostrumpet, of course you assume, I remember being naive once upon a time 😳
1. No to me it’s a sign to maybe run the club better? We don’t spend big enough to curb it, when was our last net spend over 10 million? Now the old mortgage on the ground’s paid off we should stop letting a company advertise for free all over our ground (something our casino manager chairman said we want 8-10 million for)
Is that a well run club that let’s an 8-10 million a year advertisement opportunity go for free? Answer that for me trumpet man.
2. Badly run on the football side, not the financial side as I was happy with the 3 season tickets prices frozen a couple years before when that came out. Now looking at it, I would happily pay more if it meant we spent more. Yes we finished 5th last year, but that was luck and other teams massively under performing. Are we pushing on or just standing still? Do you think we’ll finish there again? (Don’t give me the europe argument as we’re not bothered about europe, pards admitted it)
3. The jury is still out if I was wrong, I still think we could do better on the football side. Yes the direction is pleasing, it’s only taken how many ‘5 year plans’ and managers to get here? If we were a little bit more brave we could be doing much better.
I remember when mike came here he was the saviour saying he was going to put in 20m a year of his money, well we should have paid off a lot of that by now, but we haven’t. Why? He can easily convert his debt into equity and write it off that way, but you’ve got no chance with a man like Ashley. This is even acceptable under FFFP.
Pardiola(Quote)
Shamrock-Aye fair enough. I can definitely see something coming up in our next thread though! If only Ashley had…. 🙄
Newkie(Quote)
Groucho – yes I believe they paid circa 800k for the actual boards and such, but I’m talking about the 8-10 million pound dekka said he wants for the actual advertising. Does a well run club let an 8-10 million advertising opportunity just go for free?
Pardiola(Quote)
@Pardiola
I am not the one claiming things about the club.
You have stated we are increasingly in debt.
You have stated we are receiving nothing for the advertising.
Prove it.
If I was making such claims about the club I would have the support there. It’s like me saying fairies exist and asking you to disprove it, doesn’t work like that I’m afraid.
Are you a Newcastle fan? Luck? Our points tally was around that the highest of Sir Bobby’s era. We might have been lucky on our position due to other teams massively over performing, but the number of points we got was incredible all the same.
What does a bit more brave mean ❓ ❗ Spending more money ? You have just said our debt is increasing. You can’t have it both ways. Either we are in an improving financial state and we should invest in players, or our finances are getting worse and we should be careful due to only 5th place ensuring Europe. Contradictions man.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
I’ll be honest and say I didn’t vote as I’m somewhat in the middle tbh. On the one hand I’m glad we don’t chuck silly money around on players and multiple agents 👿 as that path previously put the club in mortal danger if we go by the debt MA inherited. But I am really dissapointed that we did not strengthen in defence in particular and it smacks of poor management on the owners part imo. To clarify ,yes we are sounder financially but the football side of our ambition is still open to question for me. As much as I hate the SD adverts I do think MA has every right to do what he wants as he owns the club and by paying off the bank debt and saving us a lot of cash in interest alone you could argue is kind of paying for it already . That said I still don’t trust him as far as I can throw him and I’m always waiting for a disaster with him and Dekka at the helm 😉 .
KIMTOON(Quote)
Pardiola-Aye, the season ticket thing does interest/worry me. I guess as someone who lives like 300 miles from Newcastle these days with no plans of ever buying a season ticket in the near future it didn’t have much effect on me. It’s brilliant for everyone nearby who can afford to go and see all the matches at such a price, but it does raise the question of how we’re going to compete with clubs that charge like x3 the price of what we do. Not saying it’s wrong, just seemed a strange move for a financial mogul like Ashley to make.
I assume it was to just make up for the Sports Direct/other gaffs, unless its also linked in with the speculation of him selling the club i.e players tied up, manager with little compensation, guaranteed fan turn out etc..
Newkie(Quote)
If anybody has access to actual recent club accounts then please add a link to them when making a financial statement. I think a few of us would be interested in seeing them. I’m sceptical of any comment alluding to intimate knowledge of our club’s financial status without actually seeing the proof…
From what I understand, the yearly report usually refers to seasons gone by. They are not up to date – so nobody really knows what has been spent where, or what income we have really had in recent times….?
Shamrock(Quote)
The mediocrity under Freddie to now shows a clear improvement in the footballing side of things. If you can’t see that, there’s no reasoning with you.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Kim – I voted yes, just because we are clearly improving – however we could be doing more to help our progress…….well…..progress…! So a no vote is completely understandable! 😀
Shamrock(Quote)
**non vote I should say!**
Shamrock(Quote)
Also Pardiola this whole “ended up with the one senior player in a position we didn’t really need.” on Anita that you and a few other people have peddled is absolute nonsense.
It was a crucial signing.
I thought the majority thought Cabaye was better pushed up?
Well the Anita signing fills the one of the major gaps we had in our team. It allows Cabaye to play in an advanced role and means that instead of playing Jonas centre mid we can have someone that is actually going to be more effective there.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Sham interesting read and you make some good points but I do think its very black and white, as most cases have a gray area where there can be a difference.
There is things about the club that I like but there is also things that I don’t like so what am I to vote ❓
You say we have kept our big hitters and added a few ? I think you meant added a few players but it sounds like we have kept our big hitters and added a few big hitters ??
You also say FFS had us riddled with debt but half the debt was for the ground so it wasn’t like it was needless debt, but infact we are in a lot more debt now than we ever have been, yeah yeah I know we don’t get charged interest for that debt but the way people go on about we were riddled with debt under FFS makes it sound as if we are debt free now which is far from the case. and it isn’t really free debt we have had to see the clubs history and tradition be sold off for that debt! so does that still mean it was free debt ?? I would say we have payed a high price for that. 😯
Big Dave(Quote)
Pardiola. In hinting at tax advantages I meant the total costs of advertising but not being in the know I don’t know if Sports Direct paid anything at all or what the tax advantages would be. However if SD did pay for the advertising would this be a way of transferring money from SD a plc to NUFC and therefore to MA who owns NUFC.
Groucho(Quote)
Solano @37 Do you not think our lack of investment in a couple of 1st team defenders and a possible forward shows we are happy with the mediocrity of a mid table finish rather than pushing on ?. You surely can’t think we will progress on last years finish based on this transfer windows business and our almost predictible injury jinx. To show clear improvement we would have to better or at least equal last years achievement which right now looks a tall order ,though I hope I’m wrong.
KIMTOON(Quote)
ST @ 40 if Anita was a crucial signing how comes I cant remember you asking for another DMF before or during the window ? but I can remember you saying we should strengthen the defence 🙄
Big Dave(Quote)
Solanostrumpet 😯
How childish, it is NOTHING like wanting proof of fairies. What a silly comparison.
You just waffled…”If I was making such claims about the club I would have the support there”… well what about this little gem (from you)
…”Again, I can’t comment on the SD advertising being for free without seeing the accounts. I assume it is reducing the debt to Ashley”…
In case you are lost, you say you can’t comment then comment by assuming it is reducing the debt.
So where’s your support for that claim you wouldn’t make without support? And you say I’m contradicting? 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
I’m saying we aren’t as well run as people like you make out. Idiots like yourself believe the press that mike has wiped all our debt. I’m saying that’s not the case, if that was the case why aren’t we buying the right players for the right positions to kick us on if we’re so well run and debt free?
It’s manageable debt as long as he never sells us, which is when he can demand it back. If you want to look at the accounts go ahead. It only costs a pound. Saying that you’re probably a little tight **** so google it, they’ll be on there free somewhere. You can just quote the section where we have no debt, and I’ll look it up as I can’t find it.
Pardiola(Quote)
Sham @ 36 the latest accounts were for the last season 2010 – 2011 which showed we almost broke even I think it was only a few K short, but we all know that the 2011 2012 season we would have done better with bigger gates and a lot more sky money so we should be well infront.
Oh and I just thought I would mention that I voted no because IMO there is no way the gambling that Jabba is taking with running the club and the massive debt we are in can be seen as the club being well run 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
The next set of accounts should of been out by now .I’m sure I read someone say on a different blog the other day that they are late releasing them and thereby committing an unlawfull act. Can anyone clarify if this is infact true as I would love to know if it is why are they stalling. 😕
KIMTOON(Quote)
Again Dave, I have not seen any up to date financial figures so I cant comment on exactly what shape we are in. All I know is Shepherd was dishing out big fees and big wages on players that failed to deliver a lot more often than they actually achieved anything for us – often on ‘tick’. That cannot have done us any good as we failed to establish ourselves…
I appreciate this subject has a huge grey area and that is something that should have been made clearer in the content of the article. However, there has been a lot of argument about this in previous weeks with little clarity on the general Toon fans’ position – hence keeping the pole as simple as possible. Are you happy with how we are being run or not?
I can see the argument for both sides – because it’s not black and white – but am I happy with things at present? Yes. We have a good squad, little chance of doing aLeeds and are in Europe…. Completely understand those who expected us to do more this summer though – so can see why people would say no.
Shamrock(Quote)
Big Dave @ 41 hallelujah! Finally someone who has a bit of sense. Except we haven’t got any money for the desecration of our stadium, so it’s like a brass without getting paid!
Solanostrumpet, who was owner of the club when we went down? Who appointed Joe Kinnear?
Anita was a crucial signing? No, he is now that Tiote is made of glass and simpson is injured. We needed a specialist full back, a specialist centre half and an alright striker for back up. We got none. We only needed Anita if Tiote was sold. Aye we all want Cabaye to play further up the pitch but Pardew hasn’t got the balls to let them play in that formation all the time, he doesn’t trust them. Maybe he realises we have no pace at full back or centre half? I have no problem putting Guti in alongside tiote and pushing cabaye on til next year if we got in a full back or centre half. Guti is decent in the centre hardworking and can win free kicks with his diving. Anita was not crucial at all
Pardiola(Quote)
Dave if we were well in front after last season then maybe a lot has gone towards paying off our existing debts whilst our squad is relatively healthy? Surely we cant have big debt AND spend a big chunk of our income on players unless we always want to have it hanging over us like a bad smell?
I dont know, just thinking out loud…
Shamrock(Quote)
Sham I get your point mate and I respect your opinion.
But are you happy with the fact that we have shipped out Best, Lovens, Guthrie, I wont count Smith or Forster and only brought in one experienced player Anita a MF( who in my mind just replaced Guthrie) when we are now short of strikersand could be well fuked if the Demba’s go to ACON and were allready short in the defence, then add onto that that we have more games this year due to Europa lge ?? can you honestly really tell me that you think that shows that the club is well run ❓ now im not talking well run financially im talking about well run on the pitch ? because after all we are a football club not a financial service company.
@50 so we are paying of the Debt that Jabba got us into due to not doing DD and getting us relegated ? do you not think he will get that money back when he sells the club ?
Big Dave(Quote)
Shamrock I think the point is we’re clearly in massive debt, (although the good thing is it is to ashley and with no interest) otherwise we would be buying the right players at the right price for the right position if we were a ‘really well run club’ and would be pushing on this season after such a good season last year.
Instead we’ve gambled until january where it paid off last year as only really Staylor got badly injured and when cisse came he banged 13 in from 14 games.
This year we won’t have such luck. Krul out for a few weeks, colo out, tiote’s been out for a month, Raylor’s out for six month, simpson’s got his first hamstring injury the luck of last year has well and truly gone.
All of a sudden this well run club with a much better squad is looking a bit stretched, and we have got 7 games in 3 weeks coming up, two of those being manchester united it isn’t looking very positive if the game against an average villa is anything to go by.
Pardiola(Quote)
Sham @ 50 no one was asking for a big chunk money to be spent ❓
Big Dave(Quote)
The last accounts were for 2010-11 and were published on time in March 2012 (the next ones are due out next March so he has missed no deadlines and there is nothing illegal). The last accounts showed a small loss (including the Carroll money) and that we still owed Ashley £140 million which he has loaned the club interest free. He has not had a penny paid back of any of his loans up to the last accounts being published.He can also recall his loans at any time but that would hardly make sense since he would have to sell the club to get it back and won’t recoup his total outlay including the money he paid for the club.
The accounts are available on-line from Companies House (I bought the last 2 years and I’m sure Toonsy did the same so he can verify the numbers quoted)
I doubt he is paying anything for the ground sponsorship or the advertising round the ground but then again if I had leant £140 million interest free I might expect to be able to advertise my other business for nowt.
3hourswasted(Quote)
@big Dave
we were playing Jonas centre mid. does that not suggest anita’s signing was with this in mind?
It was the only square peg in round hole situation we had in the first team (ba is up for debate)
@pardiola do you see an improvement from the days of Freddie or not? if not i can’t be arsed getting into this debate.
You are resorting to lies no and it’s getting tiresome. i have never said we have no doubt. i said i didn’t believe YOUR CLAIM that our debt was getting worse. Read my first comment to you. i don’t make any big shouts. i just ask you to provide evidence of what you stated. if you can’t do that you are clearly liar.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
@Kim
I never said i wasn’t disappointed with the ❓ window. but the general direction.we are going in is fantastic. a year ago people were feeling down and then ba hit form and we added cisse. could easily happen again. spurs/everton/arsenal all made profits this window..sign of the times..maybe we need to sell one of big guns to fund this as that’s what our competitors who we envy do.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
Those people will have been injured regardless of who we signed. Should we have signed a goalkeper too? We had plenty of dodgy games last term only to go on an exceptional run. We have not yet seen anything that suggests it will all go to rat **** this season. Dave I dont know how much w were in the red by after last season, but I dont reckon we’d have got much change if we signed 3 or 4 players capable of challenging the 1st team?
Loverman did not play last season, Best barely did after Christmas. Are we really going to miss them? We have Vuckic and Campbell stepping up to the role of 4th & 5th choice in that department.
We should have signed a central defender this summer in my opinion, but I wont cry over it. Willo played big part in our 5th place finish last term no matter what anybody says, he was part of the 1st team whilst Taylor was out. Now he is on the bench – not such a bad thing. I dont reckon we are light at full back at all, but central defence yes – as there is nobody capable enough after Willo in my opinion – albeit Perch is better with each game I would not like to rely on him over several months…
Plenty of people are saying we should have signed at least 3 first team players capable of pushing us the next level. They dont grow on trees. Not for free anyway – they cost a lot of money…
If there are 1 or 2 gaps in the squad then we should be giving the youth players a crack – if not then lets get rid of the academy! I have faith that when the right player becomes available at a price that makes sense for the club – we’ll get them.
It’s no good stating as a fact that the club is getting nothing out of the Sports Direct logo being on the stadium – as we simply dont know that’s the case this season. Once it’s confirmed then it’s a valid point…
Shamrock(Quote)
The debt isn’t getting bigger. Any 3rd party debt has now been paid off and the club has about the same amount of overall debt for 2010-2011 as it had in 2009-2010 (£140 million). The difference is now it is all owed to Ashley interest free instead of some of it attracting interest. I would expect the next accounts may show a small profit.
3hourswasted(Quote)
As far as i’m aware in the 2010-2011 season we made a loss of 4mil, disregarding transfers.
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/newcastle-united-life-in-northern-town.html
Pardiola @49-“Anita was a crucial signing? No, he is now that Tiote is made of glass”
I mussed have missed that, when did Tiote have the operation to turn him into glass? 😆 In actual fact he does have injury issues, coupled with a high chance of suspension alongside the fact he was almost guaranteed (and likely will) miss us in Jan/Feb for the ACON. So actually I think Anita was a good signing.
Newkie(Quote)
Solanostrumpet, once again please show your back up to the claim you assumed then? Still nothing?
Of course there’s an improvement, we finished second under freddie and under mike we won the championship. Clear progression. 😆
I was clearly referring to the football side of things under ashley, but you were being pedantic about it so I thought I’d throw joe kinnear and relegation in there.
So where have I lied? All my posts have been my opinion, and as far as I know the things like our debt getting bigger under ashley are true. If you don’t believe my claim, you must have support to back it up? You said you wouldn’t claim something without support. Still waiting for the support about the reducing the debt to ashley. Anything? Hello?
Pardiola(Quote)
3hrs > I doubt he is paying anything for the ground sponsorship or the advertising round the ground but then again if I had leant £140 million interest free I might expect to be able to advertise my other business for nowt.
Who did he lend the money too ?
ST @ 55 i’m just saying that for a vital signing I never heard you mention once that it was Vital that we signed another MF 😕 surely to god that back 4 and Tiote in front should be enough defence.
Sham as I said I get your point but I disagree with it, I don’t think that a club that should be challenging for top 6 should have to risk their top 6 status just because we can’t get a bargain at the price we want to pay, rather than pay the going rate, as for SD up to the last set of accounts we were not getting paid from SD for advertising
Big Dave(Quote)
Shamrock @ 57 Maybe they would have got injured, but I’d rather replace simpson with debuchy (like raylor got replaced with santon last year) and put douglas in for an injured colo instead of williamson. Williamson is a liabilty, why for someone so tall is he so poor at heading? Is it because he has to quiff his balding hair after every header? Don’t tell me his game is more suited to playing the ball out on the deck either! The way you feel about perch is the same way a lot of fans feel about williamson. And the youngsters clearly weren’t good enough, did you see our massive clear out. And we haven’t got category one status so the academy clearly isn’t working to it’s potential. But we’ve brought out a new sim card to pay for that!
Aye newkie @ 59 but you miss the fact strumpet is saying he was a crucial signing. He wasn’t, he was a luxury at the time. He might become crucial because he can play cm and full back but we have abeid, even bigirimana for the position (from our famed well run club’s scouting) if pardew’s speech about not getting a centre half is standing in the way of the youngsters, then anita is doing the same to the midfield youngsters. Unless we were expecting tiote to go, which is what llambias was basically saying a few months ago then Anita was a crucial signing. Just not what a lot of fans, and pardew to an extent believed to be what we needed to kick on. Why buy a player like anita and play 442 etc.
3hourswasted @ 58 but that’s not what I was saying is it, I said from when he took over to now, but you carry on twisting it to suit yourself.
Pardiola(Quote)
Big Dave – he leant the money to the football club to pay off external debt and to keep the club afloat over the last 3 seasons including lending the club over £40 million the season we were relegated. This allowed the club to pay wages and keep a lot of our squad when we got relegated. It is real money that has come out of Ashley’s pocket and which has been loaned directly to the club. It’s covered in the swiss ramble link above and in the last audited accounts
3hourswasted(Quote)
3hrs so what your saying is that he was good enough to lend the club he owns the money to cover for his major mistake in not doing DD and the same club that he got relegated 😯
Fuk I wish someone would pay for any mistakes I made 😆
Big Dave(Quote)
Big Dave, this is the relevant section in the Swiss Ramble link that Newkie put up:
“Net debt fell last season from £150 million to £130 million, comprising a £140 million loan from Mike Ashley less £10 million cash balances. Since Ashley arrived, the gross debt has significantly increased from £77 million in 2007, though he also had to clear the mortgage on the ground. Importantly, the club now has no external debt (it had a £36 million overdraft as recently as 2009), which not only provides more stability, but has also saved considerable sums in interest payments. These were £6.5 million in 2007, but would now be around £11 million a year following the rise in debt.
Although Newcastle’s annual report initially stated that Ashley’s loans would carry interest at LIBOR + 0.5%, since 2009 they have all been classified as non-interest bearing. The 2010 accounts said that £12.3 million was repayable in August 2010, £16.5 million after more than a year and the remainder on demand, but no repayments have actually been made to date – though it is likely Ashley will want the loans repaid at some stage.
The previous ownership had mortgaged Newcastle to the hilt, securing loans on virtually all the club’s assets (training ground) and future income streams (TV, sponsorship), and also left Ashley with deferred transfer payments of £36 million, some of which was owed on players who had left the club. Following the implementation of a new policy whereby transfers fees are paid up front, the club is now owed £5 million.
3hourswasted(Quote)
Big Dave – some of it would have been to pay off his mistakes as you say but a lot of it was to pay off loans that Shepherd had saddled the club with and to cover the lack of income due to Shepherd having mortgaged future sponsorship/TV revenues etc to pay for the likes of Owen.
3hourswasted(Quote)
3hw@54 ,Thanks for clearing that up ,as I said just repeating what I had read but wanted to know for sure .
KIMTOON(Quote)
Pardiola-Aye its a tough business this bit because its all down to opinion I guess. Imo a crucial signing is a first team signing. Personally I wasn’t too fussed we missed Debuchy but then I don’t think Simmo is that bad so I didn’t see it being crucial..Nor do I see missing out on a striker as crucial, I thought we needed a winger as I assumed we’d be playing 4-3-3. Like you said though it’s a strange aquisition if we’re going to play 4-4-2.
Imo Anita in a midfield pairing with Tiote with Cabaye ahead of them would be a brilliant prospect, one of the best midfields in the prem for sure. But for injury, and then whatever other reasons there are, we’re not playing it.. 😕
Newkie(Quote)
@Big Dave
I don’t understand what you’re trying to do? Catch me out? I haven’t said “all along I have believed centre midfield is a crucial signing” I have just said that I believe now that it was more necessary than other positions due to the formation we play. We have shown that we are terrible in 4-4-2 so I believe the switch to 4-2-3-1 is vital to our chances of success.
We have Simmo for RB and Saylor for CB. Who do we have to play alongside Tiote?
Would you be happy playing Jonas centre mid all season?
You’re just being arsey for the sake of it.
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
3hrs @ 66 I am well aware that FFS run up debt etc etc but when Jabba bought the club he then became the proud owner of the club and the debts aswell simply because he didn’t do DD so that was his mistake as was relegation.
Big Dave(Quote)
There is a staggering amount of information in the swissramble. To me the most interesting aspect is Ashley’s inability to grow the revenue. Clearly he has been largely unsuccessful there. He has increased profit mainly by sellling players (over 80M pounds worth in 4 years) and by cutting operating costs. That sounds like a bargain bin owner to me. Looking at Aston Villa’s outlay and losses is completely terrifying considering their poor onfield performances. We definitely don’t want to go that way. Will MoN take Sunderland down the same path. He seems to be trying to. All in all we seem to be on a stable footing but far from winning anything or getting into Champions League football. A mixed blessing I would say.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Ashley can certainly be criticised for not doing due diligence however he has nevertheless stumped up £140 million of his own money to cover this (on top of the £133 million he paid for the club), cleared all external debt and saved millions in interest payments on the £36 million overdraft.
It’s the subject of much debate but I think the club could have folded if it had kept going the way it was – it’s probably a blessing he didn’t do DD otherwise he might have walked away we may never have survived the financial shambles Shepherd created.
3hourswasted(Quote)
Sorry think I meant quality rather than crucial there..
Newkie(Quote)
ST @ 69 so I ask a simple question but now im being arsey for the sake of it ❓ just forget about it then because it seems to me that if you get genuinely questioned on something that you don’t like you then start with childish ****, and accuse me of trying to catch you out and being arsey for the sake of it 😳
Big Dave(Quote)
Geordietwo-Exactly. Hence my worry over season ticket prices. To be fair, Ash could have left them and if we’d kept performing, the stadium probably would have kept selling out….I suppose he’s hoping our stint in the Europa will provide some sort of marketing opportunity, but really we’ve shown little sign of attempting to break into the asian or american markets….not that that’s easy, as unless you’re a top dog, esp in Asia, people probably just won’t care. Hence Manure’s dominance. We need a korean or japanese player… 😕
Newkie(Quote)