Now admittedly not everyone believes it, but there is a fair proportion of fans out there who are wanting to see some decent money spent on one or maybe two positions. Either that or they want every deficiency in our squad addressed immediately.
In a way it’s nature of being a fan. We all want to see the best possible squad at NUFC but we all have differing ideas about how we go about it. It’s why places like this are good as it gives us a platform to debate things like this.
I just don’t buy into this whole “we must spend” mentality. Why? We have a team that is showing signs of clicking into gear and that, with a couple of astute additions, is verging on becoming a real force in the Premier League and capable of mounting a hunt for a European place.
The transfer policy we have at the minute is pretty good in my book. Any player that is brought in is carefully scouted to ensure that the likelihood of failure is reduced. How many players have we been disappointed by since we returned to the Premier League? Personally I find that a fair indication of the way we have conducted our business.
If only we showed ambition by signing players like Michael Owen, Damien Duff or Albert Luque again. Those were the days eh? I’m not saying that we should never ever splash out any kind of cash again, but if you look at where we are and what we’ve done I really don’t think you can knock the transfer policy we have in place.
Instead of being vilified, our policy should be lauded. If other teams want to splash cash then let them. We should only be concerned about NUFC and at this current moment in time we have some cracking players in our squad that were brought in for a fraction of what they should have cost.
Those players have got us to 7th in the table, and kept us there, yet there are still howls for more to be spent. We actually have a realistic shot of finishing in 7th too which is more that what can be said about the final years of the Shepherd regime. A realistic chance of one of our best league finishes in a decade isn’t good enough apparently. More more more.
For me the biggest question remains over our commitment to keep the players that we have now. I don’t doubt our ability to bring good players to this club and if they want to do it ‘cheaply’ then fair enough. I don’t look at a price tag on the pitch, I look at the player. Keeping them though is a different matter.
On the surface of it every singe sale that has happened has made sense. Andy Carroll went for silly money, Nolan wanted a deal that would take him into his mid-thirties, Barton had issues with the board and Jose wanted to go. They all made sense in hindsight and like it or not they all wanted to go for one reason or another, whether it be for more money, a longer deal, or for more ambition.
That’s gone now though, and seriously who can knock their replacements? As I said earlier though we need to stop the production line and let things grow for a bit on the ideal world, but if a huge money bid comes in for one of our players I’m more confident now that we’ll be able to replace them.
However cheaply they replacements may be viewed…
Hmmm there’s still a long way to go in the season toonsy. I think ambition has always been linked directly with spending. That is why Man City, ManU, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal are where there are in the standings. Spending is not the only link to success though. We have some very good aspects to the club now but to get into the top 4 without a lot spending is pretty much impossible. I think if we re-visit this question next season or 5 seasons from now the same situation will be true. The top spenders will be in the top 4 or 5 positions. We can battle for 6th or 7th with our current strategy and owner but that is as far as it can go realistically. A taste of Europe might do us a lot of good and even give the owner a little more motivation to invest. Again this is the pragmatic view, I’m sure wolfie sees the sky as the limit. 😀
GeordieTwo(Quote)
ambition is to try and get into europe and stay there and that takes money.
hitman(Quote)
watch a film called money ball with brad pitt,, its all about this sort of thing,, true values in plyers
jlc(Quote)
It’s a good plan, he probably has the best interests of the club (his wallet) at heart, but just like we’re used to ashley gets you liking him then he executes his plans in the ruthless t shirt sale way. All we needed was a couple other bodies in the summer and we would be in a really strong position (stronger than now)
Billy Bull5h17(Quote)
Toonsy I heard a rumour your thinking of driving Stardy’s bus 😆 Some good points but I still think they need to show a bit more ambition.
I don’t really hear anyone asking for mega bucks to be spent but when the club say they are going to reinvest the Carroll money, well you would expect them to do that. I don’t think it’s asking too much for money that was gained through players sales, to be put back into player acquisitions, to make the club stronger. 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
Spot on Big Dave, BB, and himan. And another sign of amibition would be to replace Llambias with a more experienced and knowledgeable MD. Otherwise it looks like it’s more important who you know than what you know to Ashley. I still don’t see the commitment to build a true European contender with our owner. It still pretty much looks like he is trying to recover his investment as quickly as possible.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Sorry that should read hitman! 😀
GeordieTwo(Quote)
GT 😆
hitman(Quote)
forgot to say cracking article toonsy.
it should cause some debate banter and handbags
hitman(Quote)
depends on how much ambition you have ,if your ambition is to just stay in the prem no you dont but if you want to get into europe yes .
batty(Quote)
Sad to say but I think this comes down to wishful thinking toonsy, as in ” I wish we didn’t have to spend a lot of money to produce a winning team which can compete in Europe”. I’m sure Ashley and Llambias say this every morning before they open their papers and see what brilliant new players other more ambitious teams are bringing in. And I’m not just talking about star players, I’m talking about the huge number of promising players in their teens that the big clubs sign every year. We are doing a little of that now but since we can’t compete to sign the top players and since our salaries are well below what it will take to keep our best players I don’t even see how this will be a successful long term strategy. Colo won’t sign a new contract for less money than he earns now and I’m sure Tiote is already having his head turned with much higher salary offers. The same will happen to every good player we have in the club.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Nice article Toonsy, great read.
I actually agree with you when it comes to the clubs frugal transfer policy. I like it. Love it, in fact. As you rightly say, we’re in a much better position now (both financially and in terms of league position) than we have been in for years, and no doubt the new approach to transfers is part of the reason for that. The price we end up paying for a player really doesn’t concern me, as long as they can do a job – we all know what happened when we picked up Ba on a free.
Stardust said earlier today that I shouldn’t confuse lack of ambition with not spending stupid amounts of money, or something along those lines. I don’t. I just think there’s a fine line between shrewd work in the transfer market and stubbornness.
If we can bring in a quality young player for a fair price to add to an area of the team that needs strengthening, that’s great, that’s what we should be aiming for. However (and i’m not accusing the club of doing this, just expressing concern that it might happen) i’d like to think that Mike wouldn’t cut his nose off to spite his face, if you know what i’m getting at.
We’re short at the back, and need to add a centre half if we’re going to tighten our grip on 7th. A result would be for us to bring in a young classy player – be it from France or Holland or the championship or wherever – for a fair price. However if we identify a player who we think is perfect for us (right age, bags of potential etc) but we think we’re being overcharged a tad, surely we need to consider meeting halfway? Under the circumstances, I don’t think we can afford to play hardball – especially given the incoming money from transfers over the past few windows when compared to the outgoings.
I’d hate to see us panic buy and majorly overspend, but for the sake of a mil or two we shouldn’t grumble and just get it done for the good of the teams thats done so well in the first half of the season.
ArchieMag(Quote)
team*
ArchieMag(Quote)
Ambition is as stated at start of season, top 10 finish. The current question is should we change our target for this season and bring in a couple of established players to cover for long term injury. The risk is breaking the budget and having a couple of extra players too many if we don’t qualify for europe.
Me I,d be cautious. I know we are losing players in the summer. However it is squad wages that has a greater impact on success rather than cost of buying the players.
Premandup(Quote)
Archie well put. If simpson not comitting the get a full back who can cover CB eg M’Bengue
Premandup(Quote)
Those who oppose big buys always highlight our expensive flops.
What about our good ones? Shearer, Robert, Colocinni.
It’s about identifying a quality buy who is not a donkey. Surely that must be easier than identifying unknowns who turn out to be class.
There’s got to be a blend of unknown gems, youth policies and expensive gems if you want to step up to the next level.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
MsiDouglas Mark Douglas
#nufc interest in #mufc wonderkid Morrison intriguing. Am optimistic its not over… spoke to source v.close to the deal-more in #thejournal
42 seconds ago
3hourswasted(Quote)
I,m with you on this one Toonsy,,we are heading in the right direction with everything on and off the pitch,but we have to be a little bit more patient,we are not in a position yet where we can spend a lot of money on one or two players to make us a better side but we are slowly getting there.We are spending wisely and long may it continue,but if we stick to the plan we have I don,t think it will be to long before we are a force to be reckoned with.Look at spurs now,it,s not that long ago that we were smashing them to bits on a regular basis but they have gradually built a side that can challenge for the title,can we not do the same.Yes it will take money to do that but in a year or two we will be in a much better position to get the players we need to take us that step further,like I said lets be patient.I believe we will keep our best players simply because Pardew has assembled a bloody good side at the moment,he was Ashleys choice to take us to the next level ,and we are getting there,so why would we want to get rid of anybody,please do not say it is to make money,no chairman at any club anywhere makes money to put in their own pocket.I have a bloody good feeling about our club at the moment and it won,t be long before we are back where we belong,
The Mildge(Quote)
Toonsy, I may be wrong, but your question should have perhaps read “is success linked with spending”
The answer to your original question who always have to be Yes! because I think a lack of ambition would not be spending.
I fully understand the point your making though mate and completely agree.
I mean, any Chelsea fans who would still be pleased with the money spent on Torres or Luiz would be stupid, they would be poor signings at half the price!!
Then there’s Liverpool, I am going to leave Carroll out of it and go with Downing, Henderson and even Suarez for that matter.
Man City spent Tevez for him to throw it back in their faces.
Our approach works, it works for us anyway and some people may not like it and might not be business men or care about fees and just want to see great players come into the club. Fine, but that’s quite a narrow view on things.
I pissed off Xisco is still on our books and he only cost about £5m but is getting 50k a week, if it was £10m… get me point?!
As much as I think we need a CF, it was kind of pleasing to see the Maiga deal collapse, there was a time we’d buy a player we werent 100% sure of for 5-10m then he’d earn a fortune sitting on the bench or playing in reserves.
Free agents and young foreign players at a low fees is the right way to go.
Sharpy17(Quote)
i think the answer to this qustion is simple! Take lfc they splashed the cash with what sort of return?we received substantial amounts invested wisley and are now probs 1 off the only self sustaining clubs in the epl! And the best about all we are 7th pushing for europe and giving thr big spenders a good run for theire money! Why buy a mercpedes if u got a similar car half the price! Trophy purchase? In carr i trust
flash(Quote)
” Those who oppose big buys alwayshighlight our expensiveflops. What about our good ones? Shearer, Robert, Colocinni.”
Troy, the reason they do that is because the argument that ‘spending money on a player = player is automatically destined to be an expensive flop’, is such a mind-numbingly stupid argument that the only way you can actually try to put this case forward is by using strawman arguments, like the one about Owen and Luque.
Pootle(Quote)
demba scores for senegal 🙂
batty(Quote)
@pootie
I agree 😉
Troy Stavers(Quote)
@pootle
Typo error 😳
Troy Stavers(Quote)
The thing is the club have spent , ok they have not spent massive on players but they have spent wisely on them and on other things too . The likes of bringing in a proper scouting team , improving the training pitches with undersoil heating and giving Pardew the backroom staff he now has which is working , also the investment in the youth academy . The scouting network and training pitches have helped us move forward and is something that should of happened years earlier . These things imo are proving that Ashley has the AMBITION to turn the club into a well run well oiled machine that in a few seasons will challenge the top 6 every season .
Axel(Quote)
Demba Ba scored for Senegal!
Blackbartoon(Quote)
The undersoil heating and the training pitches aren’t going to score goals while Ba is at the ACON.
Pootle(Quote)
POOTLE if he was training on heavy pitches would he still be fit , or would his knees have took a pounding slogging through the mud ?
Axel(Quote)
I’m fully in favour of the transfer policy we have it seems to be working very well.My fear is how far we will go to keep our new found stars.I hate to think we will just become a feeder club for others.A springboard for money chasing “wanna be’s”
nutmag(Quote)
Pootle , why do you have to be such a ***,if you have to be so negative go to the Chronicle website.You will fit in well
The Mildge(Quote)
Nutmag@29- You just said exactly what i said on another blog. 😀 It’s true it’s a proper pisstake that the top clubs feel they have the divine right to prise our prize assets away. If that’s what we have come to i would rather we never unearthed these little gems as it only causes false expectations.
kimtoon(Quote)
Sorry The Clunge.
I’m not being negative. Just pointing out that morons like you can’t string sentences together, let alone a coherent argument.
Pootle(Quote)
We have a great transfert policy but now if we want to play at the next level, stop selling our best players! If we built the team around Krul Colo Tioté Cabaye and Ba with Santon Ben Arfa who will become important player for us, we can be the next bing thing in the few next seasons!
Blackbartoon(Quote)
bb@33 -Well said.
kimtoon(Quote)
Totally agree with the article, Toonsy. The policy is clearly working – although I question whether it will continue to do so now we’re pushing into the top third. I wonder whether the bosses are going to be able to work with the nuanced, unquantifiable stuff that kicks in now, like continuity, passion and so on.
The real worry is the salaries, not the transfer fees, as you say. But I don’t believe for a minute that there is a cap as such, just that the club won’t pay any player beyond what is appropriate for a club at the position we’re at at any given time. So while 20k may have been the norm for a 1st-teamer last season, it’s probably more like 40k now and will hike again if we get to a Euro spot. It just makes sense.
Shame they’ve got no appreciation for history; them and their Sellachavatrackie Arena. Arseholes.
Whumpie(Quote)
Sharpy – Nah I got the question right as its based on people saying stuff along the lines of wishing Ashley would show a bit of ambition and spend a bit more etc etc.
Troy – I agree. If we had Ashley’s approach to signings combined with Shepherd’s willingness to spend it would be something. But we don’t, and were improving as a team. The mere fact were even contemplating Europe two seasons after coming away from Sheffield Wednesday with a draw shows me we ate moving forward and that the policy is working at the moment
toonsy(Quote)
Whumpie – I honestly don’t believe there is a per player cap on wages. I believe there is a pot for wages and players can and will be paid reasonable wages for a club not in the champions league. However once that money is gone its gone so if we pay one player 100k a week crack on, but there will be less to spend collectively on other players wages.
Gan on Demba by the way 😉
toonsy(Quote)
Players will have to believe in the ambition of the club and want to grow with it.Unfortunately I have’nt much faith in our owner and chairman being able to show such ambition they don’t show it to us the paying custumers I doubt the players are treated any different.
nutmag(Quote)
Can I just ask: when did this regime ever sell one of our best players? The only possible example I can think of was Jose, and it’s not like they didn’t try to keep him. The rest… as far as I can remember… all proved to be very shrewd bits of business.
Whumpie(Quote)
I know we should want Senegal and Ivory Coast knocked out so we can get our players back, but…. gwaaaarrrrn Dembaaaaa!!!
Whumpie(Quote)
Also, I think people confuse the club doing something different from what they would do with a lack of ambition. We’ve gone from fizzy league to mid-table to a good shout at the top third in 3 seasons. Frankly, if they had spent £30m a season on players and done that I’d think it was a good return.
The fact they’ve done it while making a big profit on players and reducing the club’s debt is bloody miraculous.
Whumpie(Quote)
Great article Toonsy. I’m firmly behind your thoughts
great buys with potential who can become excellent players is the right answer, even if we lose a few on the way.
Although I’d eventually like us to retain some players like Krul, Colo once we have established ourselves amongst the elite teams of europe.
THats the fine line for me with Ashley, will he keep selling even tho success could be around the corner? not sure..
look at the likes of SRPhillips, Crouch, Luiz, Torres, Carroll… what a waste…I’m glad those days are behind us.
mark(Quote)
I have always maintained you don’t need to break the bank to get a decent player in .Just decent scouting and team spirit can be all it takes to produce a really good team,look where we are now and on relative peanuts compared with Pool for example. Every top team is linked with one of our players it seems and let’s hope Ash realises what a gem he’s got now and don’t flog the family jewels.
kimtoon(Quote)
Toonsy – I’m out fella – would love to join in but in company – brilliant article fella!
Stardust(Quote)
Look at it this way: at the rate they’re going, the club could easily be in the CL, debt-free, making a profit, and still able to pay going rate for players within a few years. 4 years ago that was inconceivable.
Oh, and on Sunday I’m paying about half the cost an equivalent seat at the Emirates.
What else do people want??
Whumpie(Quote)
@the mildge
It’s not being negative but realistic. You spelt *** wrong. It’s spelt MILDGE. 😛
Troy Stavers(Quote)
“is ambition really linked to spending” well yes it is speculate to ecumulate !, spending money we dont have or spending money on “donkeys” would be silly but imo that is not what most fans are after what they want is “fairness” money from player sales (caroll) going back into player sales and better player retention , as you say the “production line needs to stop” but do you think it will toonsey !!!! and are you that confident that free or cheap replacements can be found time and time again !! im not…..
It is obvious to me and many fans that what is happening at nufc is not right and not good for the club , but feb 1st will tell us AGAIN what direction the club is headed ?
A fool learns from his mistakes they say ….. MA doesent seem to
keith(Quote)
@Troy
could be looked at being realistic, some could say grumpy auld fu**ers that are never happy.. 😯 😆
wheres the dreams/happiness in being realistic? i’d rather have blind faith, get knocked down, but i get back up again…much more fun 😆
when it does come good, some will say, “it’ll never last!” 🙄
mark(Quote)
Toonsy – yeah get ya now and answer stays the same. Signing players is a sign of ambition, throwing money a players destroys the market and average players have become over priced.
I think the point I was trying to address, and the one I thought you were making is that – spending big on players still doesn’t secure success. For example I don’t think Man Utd have been soley successful just coz they have spent money, their youth policy, consistent manager, work ethic and togetherness as a group of players has as much to do with it. I think bar the money spending, we seem to have the rest this season, but I think they have also proven over time that spending big money on some players doesn’t guarantee they will fit in or be a success.
Sorry for questioning you Toonsy lad 😳
Sharpy17(Quote)
Troy- Spending money on proven players doesn’t always pay off .For every Shearer there’s an Owen.
kimtoon(Quote)
And to the people that call me or others negative , on sunday i will be sitting in my seat at the match cheering on the lads and the sat after on a train to london to cheer the lads on at fulham something i have done for 15 years its not negative its learning from history and being realistic 😛
I ask any sensible geordie what is more realistic the version i and many others have or 25 mill spent 4 players in none leaving the clubs saviour a revolutionary taking the club to the top …..!!!!
I wonder 😉
keith(Quote)
@kimtoon
If you read my earlier posts I believe that’s answered.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Keith – Or maybe the tens of thousands of people who sit between the two extreme sides you present? Im fortunate really. I have the ability to see good and bad. Some don’t though and just see one or the other 🙂
toonsy(Quote)
WHUMPIE – Arsenal are based in London you would likely be earning more which would offset the added cost of a season ticket to the Emirates. The stadium is new and huge, padded seats and I think they get their home cup games including the Champions League in with that more expensive ticket?
EvilFranky(Quote)
@Mark
Oooooh. Ive been lying in the laundry basket all day in a state of serenity.
I’m fooooorious now after your little jibe! I’m ganna hoy me trunks and boots on and leg it to your little hovel and run thru the front door withoot opening it, get you by the lugs and hoy you in the toilet. Stamp on you until you fit doon the U bend and flush the ******* !
You hear me?! You hear me! 😡
Troy Stavers(Quote)
I do agree with troy that if we need a particular spot filling and there is a great player available who is young enough then why not spend the money. I’m thinking that when Enrique left we could have spent £10 – 15m if the right player was there. No probs with santon, just sayin that there is no reason not to, but it’s the exception rather than the rule.
Premandup(Quote)
Troy@ 16 – I see what your saying and totaly understand your argument but the fact remains if you sign a relatively exspensive player it goes without saying they will comand a high wage. Then you get player unrest due to one player on huge pay in comparison with most others. Yes it’s a balancing act to get the blend right and i ‘m sure we will see how far we are progressing come Feb the 1st.All i want right now is that we don’t become a feeder club for the big boys.
kimtoon(Quote)
@Trot Screech
you know I love you man 😆
you’ll find me in the basket, top of the stairs with one of your old thongs you kindly sent me on me heed 😯
mark(Quote)
Market has changed .. what was once £10mill is now £5mill .. we are spending big … only mugs like citeh and the bindipppers waste cash … our policy has been spot on .. we are 1-2 seasons ahead of plan .. .Europe is goal in couple seasons time.
TOONPIPES(Quote)
toonpipes so torres realy cost 100 mill 😯 😯 😆 😆
batty(Quote)
@TOONPIPES
and Stoke, and QPR
but youre right, the Arsenal model is doing well. Just sold our Anelka (carroll) and bought the future in Fabragas (Cabaye)..
mark(Quote)
Toonsy are you taking the job offer from Stardy 😆 😆
Prem 56 but maybe if the club showed a bit more ambition and were a bit more trustworthy we wouldn’t have had to replace Jose 😕
Big Dave(Quote)
@BD agree slightly, but didnt he want out anyway?? not sure..
but we did spend money to bring in Santon who looks just as good imo, certainly settled quicker then Jose did.
mark(Quote)
Batty just looking at Troys twitter he is a ringer for his Granda isn’t he 😀
Big Dave(Quote)
toonsey@53 , the mayority see the good it is clear to see , we are debt free have a good scouting system and good youth policy and for that i am very gratefull .
But to source talented young players or develop them through the ranks to sell them in there early 20s for other clubs to benefit from is wrong .
No body wants to spent silly money but to think we can continue to grow and fight for european places without spending a penny and being solely reliant on scouts and youth whilst selling them if offers “to good to turn down” come in is moronic imo .
keith(Quote)
Big Dave, have you noticed how many people are coming over to the daaaaaaark side
TOONPIPES(Quote)
Mark from what I read and believe was that he wanted out because of broken promises and lack of ambition.
I do agree that Santon so far in less than a handfull of games looks good, but I don’t think we can expect that to happen everytime that we have to replace our better players
Big Dave(Quote)
Big Dave, don’t think so. Enrique wanted success now and was not going to wait. He made up his mind a year ago. Lets be fair he saw Tugboat telling Carrol to go to liverpool and thought good enough for him. Had he stayed til now I doubt that he would want to move. The sheer quality in the current squad was not there 12 months ago.
Premandup(Quote)
well done demba – you are on fire son!!!
been looking at santons peformances the past few weeks and he hasnt put a foot wrong – hes so quick!! think weve got another bargain there lads!!
on that morrison – never heard of him but sounds good , people are comparing his attitude like nile rangers 😐
please to hear we are looking at that lukk de jong again – he looks awesome but it has me confused as pardew said we were only looking for a center back?? maybee virgin money has gave us a few more quid after all!! very much doubt it like … i was very naive the past few windows holding my breath for big signings coming in ( as dave can tell you ) so this window im gna just sit back and expect nowt!!
another thing – why every time newcastle united put in for a player its always rejected ?? we offer pennys for players and never seem to get anywhere!! splash some money man ashley and we could get 5th-6th!!!
Army69(Quote)
dave aye he does mate 🙂
batty(Quote)
Prem what worries me is will we keep the current squad of quality players, I would be happy with that but from past experience I feel that if we get a good offer for ANY player Jabba will sell.
I don’t think a club like ours should be like that
Big Dave(Quote)
Army > i was very naive the past few windows holding my breath for big signings coming in ( as dave can tell you ) so this window im gna just sit back and expect nowt!!
Spot on mate expect nowt and anything else is a bonus 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
ashley will always put profit first.
hitman(Quote)
i doubt ashley will sell a big name this window(i hope).
but the summer then you can believe all our top plays will be sold if right money is offerd.the man has zero ambition for this club all he cares about is getting his money back and try and sell the club for his profit..
hitman(Quote)
Totally agree Dave. However if and its a big if we have a replacement in place, AND the price is stupid, then I agree we will sell. It’s what Lyon have done so well recently.
Would love to keep the current spine of Krul, Colo, Saylor/Willo, Tiote, Cabaye, HBA & Ba and then add to them eg Santon & Jonas. Add two more and we have a great starting 11. Then we can sell and replace if the bids are there.
Doubt we are losing anybody in January but Colo seems the most vulnerable at the moment.
Premandup(Quote)