TV money being poured into football has changed the landscape of the game, even just in the last ten years or so. Being a lifelong NUFC fan in my mid-twenties and having lived in different areas of the UK, I always come across the debate of exactly what makes a ‘big club’.
With Newcastle returning to the Premier League, there is a lot of debate on what they can achieve and where they ‘belong’. The main thing that irritates Newcastle fans is the myth levelled at them that they expect too much, Champions League football (as Craig Bellamy incorrectly stated recently) or even when Sir Alex Ferguson said we expect to “win the World cup.” A team that is entertaining to watch, has pride in the shirt and is competitive in the top flight is pretty much all we want.
That being said, are Newcastle a big club? Let’s analyse a range of factors to measure just where we sit in the modern game.
Success on the pitch
This tends to be the main yardstick for measuring the size of club, so let’s look at three factors as part of this; average league position, trophies won and European football participation.
Average league position – 9th
Sky Sports recently published a study highlighting showing each club’s average league position. The data has two factors, each team had to appear in the top four divisions for at least 15 seasons and the average is taken from the 1967/8 season onwards.
| Rank | Team | Average league position |
| 1 | Liverpool | 3.44 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 4.96 |
| 3 | Manchester United | 5.08 |
| 4 | Tottenham Hotspur | 8.882 |
| 5 | Everton | 9.00 |
| 6 | Chelsea | 10.86 |
| 7 | Manchester City | 13.38 |
| 8 | Aston Villa | 14.88 |
| 9 | NEWCASTLE UNITED | 15.00 |
| 10 | West Ham United | 15.06 |
This is a really useful measure as getting an average from such a long period of time covers both good periods and the darker times. Newcastle sitting 9th and in striking distance of a few teams above feels about right.
Trophies won
This is universally the first comment Newcastle fans are taunted with when the big club debate arises. Of course, truly massive clubs win trophies regularly. But does Swansea or Birmingham both winning the league cup once each in the last ten years make them bigger clubs than us? Although we have had a long lean spell, it is not as bad as you would think when you consider there are only really two cups to try and win each year.
Historically, we remain the 9th most successful team in England in terms of trophies won, though a lot of that is not recent of course. It is also worth considering however that there are only 14 clubs who have won a trophy more recently than us in the Premiership at the moment. So like league position, looking at trophies won, we are still around the 9th mark.
European football
As there are not loads of trophies to go around, the next measure of success that stems from a good league position is qualifying and competing in European competition. Taking away the usual ‘big four’, Newcastle have enjoyed some memorable European campaigns.
We have competed in the Champions League on four occasions in the last twenty years, which not many current Premier League rivals have achieved, barring the superpowers. We have also had runs to the Europa League/Uefa Cup Semi’s and Quarters in recent memory.
Uefa composes a European co-efficient ranking. This considers recent European performance and the strength of league you compete in, giving you a score which then determines who is the best team in Europe. Newcastle lie 68th in this list currently and the 8th best placed team in England. This measure again suggests Newcastle are not the largest or most successful team in England but certainly one of the bigger clubs.
Stadium size and fan base
This is arguably Newcastle’s biggest strength. Many clubs would love to have the support Newcastle enjoy and even last year in the Championship our average attendance was 51,064. This until recently was one of the highest in England but now ranks 6th for supporter numbers. Mike Ashley blocking expanding St. James’ Park may catch up with us eventually with many clubs investing in new Stadiums, with Spurs and Everton hoping to move into new ones soon.
One of the measures of a big club is still its support and Newcastle rank highly here.
Attracting big names
A sign of a big club is also the ability to attract big names or stars. This is an area Newcastle have historically punched above their weight in. Breaking the world transfer record to sign Shearer in 1996 was one instance, as was signing Michael Owen for our club record fee of £17m. Although he didn’t perform as hoped, signing a key England player from Real Madrid in his supposed prime was a real coup that not many other clubs would have been able to pull off.
We also famously brought Kevin Keegan to the club as a player and manager when we were not even in the top flight; something that feels similar now with attracting Rafa Bentiez to NUFC. Not too many other English clubs could have attracted him to the club, let alone in the second tier.
Finances
Finances are increasingly becoming king in modern football. The lack of investment in players from Mike Ashley is something fans are concerned about this summer if we are to compete next year. Deloitte publish a useful guide each season showing turnover of all football clubs, which is a guide to their commercial clout. The last report had Newcastle at 21st worldwide, the first time we have been out the 20 for a long while. This places us as 11th in England and the slipping down the list is mainly down to poor management of the club, resulting in two recent relegations. However, being around the top 20 richest teams in the world, whether it is inflated by TV money or not, is a measure of a big club.
Global following
This is an area Newcastle are weaker and are trying to improve. Our income from sales and merchandise abroad is one area Charley is trying to increase with links to the Chinese market and the new shirt sponsor. Being based in the North East is also often cited as a problem to being a truly big club; but as Manchester shows, if you have success on the pitch and finance behind you, location becomes less of an issue.
Interestingly, Newcastle are again ranked 9th for social media followers in the Premier League, which in modern times does show a good indication of a wider following beyond match attendance.
So where do Newcastle sit?
As all of the measures show, Newcastle sit at the lower end of the top 10 teams in England in most areas. This aligns with where we should aim to be competing once we establish ourselves in the Premier League and providing of course Ashley backs Benitez. There are always successful periods and lower times but as an average we are in the group below the big 4-6 teams. With good management, investment and time, there is no reason we can’t be competing in the top 6-8 again and only the bigger clubs have the capabilities to do this.
Of those 3 – Navas every time.
Benny was a cancer at the club, or is that forgotten coz he scored a couple of decent goals. He divided the dressing room due to his attitude & lack of training effort.
He’s never got on with any manager, they all can’t be wrong like.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Bradford.
Hearts.
Bradford
Wolfsburg on their U12s pitch?
Hellas Verona.
Who organized this **** parade?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Some can…
Ugly John asks a fan for a fight at the training ground. Nice…
Arrogant Alan eats pineapple chunks so his cum can taste sweeter for “the ladies”.
You trust their judgement?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Yes Trump free sounds good, no farting on here.
kimtoon(Quote)
Eric, TMI mate.
we need a puke or disgust emoji
kimtoon(Quote)
http://www.givemesport.com/1096359-alan-shearer-has-perfect-response-after-romelu-lukaku-says-he-couldnt-turn-down-manchester-united?autoplay=on
🙂 good one Al
kimtoon(Quote)
Eric – to be fair, Benny probably played his best football for the chunk muncher – that 3 man attack of him, Cisse & Ba worked pretty good.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Agree about the friendlies though. It looks very much like we forgot about them and just took whatever fixtures were left over ?.
Can’t understand why we don’t play more home friendlies to get the players used to the pitch & stadium.
Probably coz they make more money having Ed Sheeran or Take That playing there ?
Sharpy17(Quote)
Jesus Navas the latest name linked. Always thought he flattered to deceive at City but probably good enough for us
Stuart79(Quote)
I’d prefer the guy from Swansea for £4m, Montero. I remember him 2 years ago taking us apart at Swansea. First name we’ve been linked with where I thought – good.
georgio(Quote)
Stu – that’s my thoughts on him too mate. It’s hard to get passed the likes of DeBryne, Sane or Silva – but that doesn’t make him a bad player.
To be fair, there’s a number of fringe players in the top 4-6 teams, that would be good players for us.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Georgio – it’s probably the only good game he’s had!!. He’s not been able to get into a struggling Swansea team – one thing signing City fringe players, but Swansea fringe players?!
Sharpy17(Quote)
Navas played like 50 games and had like 1 assist and no goals. He deceived to flatter. He is a big risk. Flashy but no end product in the PL so far.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
The more wingers names that get bandied about the better Benny looks.
That’s the Benny without Pardew by the way.
georgio(Quote)
Kimtoon: in certain places he has the nickname “chunky”. Got nothing to do with weight. This is the reason why.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Mark Douglas Retweeted
Lee RyderVerified account @lee_ryder · 2h2 hours ago
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Surprise, surprise. Peter Beardsley beats four men then rolls it past the keeper. Classic. 4-1 #nufc
🙂
kimtoon(Quote)
agree mate, I remember that too, he was billiant
kimtoon(Quote)
I know Eric you posted it before but it’s still TMI, when you are just about to eat .
kimtoon(Quote)
Sorry, man. That site “Football365” always calls him Chunky so it enters my head when they say it as well.
Enjoy your dessert. Spotted ****?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
The Yanks over here are always confused by some British foods:
Faggots
Jam Roly Poly
Spotted ****
Eric Sykes(Quote)
And what is a stottie cake? It is not a cake at all. And why are Greggs vans signs inverted? And who is Simon Grayson?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Not inverted. Like in a mirror but I cant think of the word 🙂 Anyway…
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Not reflected, not inverse, not opposite, not apposite. What is that word that says it looks right when seen in a mirror?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
And. Chris Waugh is taking after Ryder. He said yesterday that something was “an anathema”. No Chris, that is what Lee would say because he doesn’t know anything.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Mirrored?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Is it an ambigram ?
kimtoon(Quote)
Eric – are you drinking by any chance?
Sharpy17(Quote)
£15m for that Traore kid?!?!?!?!! **** that!! – I thought it was about £8m.
Sharpy17(Quote)
WHAT!, please tell me we haven’t bid that ? And they want Darlow for £5m 😆
kimtoon(Quote)
Just about to start, mate.
I am the same idiot sober and drunk.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I get annoyed when people like Ryder and Waugh get paid and don’t know the difference between AN anathema and anathema (anathema is correct, if that helps them out) .
Ryder, in all his 25 years at The Chronicle, has only ever written boring articles. He barely scratches the surface and he is supposed to be the chief sports writer.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Are we actually putting in any bids for any players 🙄
kimtoon(Quote)
Everton have spent around £90m on transfers so far !!!
kimtoon(Quote)
??
Sharpy17(Quote)
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/893131919?-11058:809:0
I like the look of young Murphy from Norwich like.
Sharpy17(Quote)
I think Rooney still has a lot to offer. His goal against Stoke to break the Manure record this season shows he still has the touch. He wont be prolidic and has lost his pace but he will chip in with important goals and knows how to get an assist as well. His achievements in the game are staggering when you think about it. No doubt he is on the wind down but not a bad player to have around at all.
shamrock(Quote)
Sham – I agree mate. Wasn’t Pedro in his 30s when he returned to the toon and formed a partnership with Cole?.
Rooney was loved by Fergie, and I don’t think he’s had the same relationship with Moyes or Jose.
He’s going back to be the big fish now & the toffees will show him love.
Sharpy17(Quote)
He was the big fish under Mr. Roy who let him run the team. How did that work out? As I have said, he is not a midfielder and when played as a striker he comes back to midfield to get the ball and does nothing with it and ruins the shape of the team. Get some players signed Rafa, 7th has just been opened up.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
If Rooney scores more than 10 goals in the PL next season I will hold my hands up and eat my words. I have nothing against him. He was a good player but he isn’t anymore.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
So Rooney still has something left in the tank because he scored a free kick? Is that worth 150k a week. ONLY IF IT SELLS SHIRTS, or pajamas as he is now saying. These players scored more PL goals than Rooney last year:
Kane
Lukaku
Sanchez
Aguero
Costa
Alli
Ibra
King
Hazzard
Defor
Llorente
Son
Vardy
Giroud
Firmino
Deeney
Vokes
Walcott
Sigurdsson
Andre Gray
Negredo
Jay Rodriguez
Antonio
Lanzini
Ozil
Willian
Lallana
Eriksen
Rondon
Milner
Stanislas
Snodgrass
Jesus
Zaha
Origi
Sterling
Redmond
Crouch
Capoue
Carroll
Ashley Barnes
Gary Cahill
Mata
Joe Allen
Gareth McCauley
Andre Ayew
Eric Sykes(Quote)
My Economics teacher had an analogy before I had to take the A Level. He asked the class what Malcolm MacDonald did? We all hummed and hawed and said he was the number 9, centre forward, talisman of the team etc. Of course, the answer was “score goals”. That’s what he was paid to do, and that is what this very clever teacher said to do in the A Level exam, show them that you know the subject, score goals!
Rooney doesn’t score goals.
I got an A by the way.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Here’s another analogy. My Grandfather worked down the pit from when he was 14 to when he retired. I went back to Newcastle a few years ago when he was in his late 80’s and he didn’t know who I was. Someone I cared for and loved had suffered a decline. It can happen to the best of us, and it has happened to Wayne.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
And what do we want our current number 9 to do? Score goals!
How about the number 10? Create and score goals.
Mo Diame, Played 35 for NUFC, scored 3.
Ayoze Perez:
2014: 7 goals
2015: 8 goals
2016: 9 goals (Championship)
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Rooney is going to Everton to raise the profile and sell shirts, just like Beckham did when he went to the LA Galaxy. If you can’t see that I don’t know what cloud you are living on.
Sign somebody Rafa, so I can get off the Rooney subject 🙂
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I have nothing against him …. ??
Sharpy17(Quote)
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/893177324?-11058:809:0
What happens when you put your toon top in a dark wash ?
Sharpy17(Quote)
Been thinking about the lack of signings and I believe that some may be held up due to selling/loaning clubs waiting to replace the players in question. It would be nice to think that we have the Chelsea stiker all agreed but they are waiting on their new guy to come in.. probably hopeful thinking but it would hold up deals..
Aussie(Quote)
Aussie – I think that’s highly likely to be fair mate.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Hearts game on Friday sold out
Icedog(Quote)
And that’s why they don’t have to worry about signing any quality players , because the Toon faithful will turn out in droves no matter the game or what’s on offer.
kimtoon(Quote)
Yeah it’s all got a bit boring again this week hasn’t it.
I thought for French lad had broke the seal, but it looks more like he just sneaked in while Ashley was throwing up in the fireplace ?
Sharpy17(Quote)
Aussie – there’s also the possibility players and clubs will wait for increased or better offers than ours. That’s why there’s so many crucial signings in the few days before window closes.
georgio(Quote)
longer it goes on the more we’ll have to pay though surely .
kimtoon(Quote)
PurelyFootball UK @PurelyFootball · 4h4 hours ago
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The Irish Herald have published a picture of Stormzy instead of Romelu Lukaku on their back page.
https://twitter.com/MsiDouglas
**** me 😳
kimtoon(Quote)
YES mate
icedog(Quote)
? Kim that’s brilliant!!
Sharpy17(Quote)
Rooney should have stayed at Man Utd – he’s sporting the old Bobby Charlton comb over again by the looks of it.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Sharpy
He ain’t happy
#GSAPVerified account @Stormzy1 · 59m59 minutes ago
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I don’t find none of this funny btw don’t wanna sound like the party pooper who missed the joke…
kimtoon(Quote)
It is so slow the papers have even given up inventing stories of who we will sign.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I think the pre-season settles the “big club” argument. While Man U face Barcelona and Real Madrid in the US we play Hearts and at the Dortmund training ground.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Sharpy, it happens with white folk too 😆
https://twitter.com/jamesldoyle/status/881108938426523649
kimtoon(Quote)
* Wolfburg, sorry.
I had Jurgen Klopp on the brain because I was trying to think if I could name a Mainz player and he was the only one I could come up with.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
What did Barry Cryer ever do to become famous anyway? Last time I was back in England I saw him on one of Stephen Fry’s oh-so-intellectual game shows and my first reaction was “he is still alive?”.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Giles Brandreth was on Mr. Fry’s show as well and my reaction was again: what did he do to become famous? Probably besties with the Cambridge footlights brigade?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Mostly writes comedy material for other comedians, but then that was always his thing aside from a short spell in the limelight around the 70’s/80’s
kimtoon(Quote)
Wasn’t he an mp at one point ?
kimtoon(Quote)
Could have been, but then again Jeffrey Archer was/is? a Lord (and former MP, convict, trash novel writer).
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Craig HopeVerified account
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Understand NUFC made an £8m bid for Jacob Murphy but Norwich have said he is not for sale. Sources say unlikely to be progress
Craig HopeVerified account
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NUFC have also asked about Adama Traore but Boro’s valuation of winger has all but put an end to the interest
Craig HopeVerified account
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And NUFC will not be revisiting loan move for Sheyi Ojo as LFC demands for deal are too high.
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And for those asking about Jesus Navas – no chance. He was mentioned a while back but accepted he’s going back to Spain now.
Going swimmingly then 😆 Toon need a rabbit out the hat
kimtoon(Quote)
yep for Chester in the 90’s apparently, and he put the honours system in room 101 .
kimtoon(Quote)
Giles that is , not Archer
kimtoon(Quote)
And, if James Gallway, Baldrick and rows-his-boat-fast Redmond deserve knighthoods then so do Rooney and Beckham. I really believe they are running out of people to knight since the scandal with the bankers and just stick a list of “entertainers” on a wall and throw darts to decide.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Is there any player who’s valuation we don’t think is over the top? I think the bar has been set already with the signings Bournemouth have made and even Wolves in the Fizzy. Prices have changed a hell of a lot since 2012 which seems to be the market were shopping in…
Stuart79(Quote)
Is Phil Taylor a “Sir”. A common dart player a Knight of the Garter? No Sir for him. I bet he has entertained more people than the 5 outside of Oxford, Cambridge and Henley who watch Olympic rowing.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
(@BBCSport)
Crystal Palace are reportedly set to sign Ruben Loftus-Cheek on loan. A lunchtime update to the gossip
kimtoon(Quote)