With Lewis Gibson completing a £6m move to Premier League rivals Everton, despite never making a first team appearance for Newcastle. The 17 year old is highly rated and one of the few bright spots to come from our academy in recent years. Is the deal good business for Newcastle or a sobering reminder of just where we now stand following years of underachievement?
Good business or demoralising?
On the face of it, £6m for a teenager who has not even played for the reserves is a big fee. After all, there is certainly no guarantee that Gibson will realise his potential at Everton, or if he had stayed. There are countless examples of players not pushing on and making the big step to first team football, let alone flourishing in the Premier League. It shows the crazy state of the market that such a fee is mooted for someone so young and unproven; though his ‘home-grown status’ will no doubt appeal to the Toffees.
On the flip side, academy players and local ones at that, are the most exciting players to watch breakthrough for fans. Local players of real quality have not been developed enough at Newcastle in the last ten years or so, with Carroll the only one to generate real excitement before he was sold to Liverpool. The purpose of the academy is create players for the first team and selling someone so early is demoralising. That being said, he has not trained for a few months and was pushing for the move. United have done well to get such a hefty fee but it is clearly concerning a local player and Newcastle fan doesn’t want to stick around, even at 17.
The state of the academy
This brings us nicely onto the wider question of whether our academy is up to scratch. Gibson clearly feels his development is better served at another club. We have only recently had the academy status upgraded to match our Premier League rivals after it was downgraded to category two a few years ago. When Rafa agreed to stay, he raised concerns of the quality of facilities and was shocked at the poor infrastructure of the academy. He sees it as a long term project and we can certainly learn from the likes of Spurs and Southampton in this regard.
An update from the club as to when they finally plan to build the new academy site after years of talking about it would be well timed. The Gibson fee could help with this but you feel with modern football, transfers are more pressing and it will be added to Rafa’s coffers instead. Newcastle need to learn from this episode and improve our academy; that much is clear.
We clearly need to improve to compete with Everton
It is also a stark reminder of how we have sipped down the pecking order. It wasn’t too long ago we were competing with the likes of Everton on and off the pitch. Poor management under Ashley has certainly seen us fall behind. That being said, these clubs now poaching our local players is even more concerning. We need to keep improving and get back into the top 10. Staying in the top flight and keeping the TV money is central to this, so let’s hope Ashley backs Rafa this summer to begin this rebuilding process. I am sure Newcastle fans would love the exciting transfer window Everton fans are currently enjoying.
We need Rafa more than ever
If younger players leave us in our current state, it just underlines just where we would be if we didn’t have Rafa. The ‘Rafa effect’ we all anticipated in attracting big names this summer may not have materialised as we thought it would this summer, or even Rafa himself thought. He remains a big name and top manager and if we had another second rate manager such as McClaren, the future would be bleak. Like any manager though, Rafa needs good players to help him out. Merino looks a good capture from Dortmund, so let’s hope more follow.
What do you think of the Gibson deal and our academy?
Thanks Simon.
It’s a sorry state of affairs at present, no young local lad should feel he has no future at his hometown club, that’s very sad. Of course he may be chasing the money, we really don’t know all the in’s and outs. What is true though, is that right now Everton look the better bet, they are cash rich and buying some exciting players and look to be on the up.
Contrast with us, we are just returned and still needing to get re-established in the PL and once again become more than a stepping stone to bigger and better. By and large Rafa is addressing these issues but Rome wasn’t built in a day and much depends on our owner not thwarting any attempts by Rafa to help us progress . As always we are at the mercy of Ashley’s mood and own ideas as to where he see’s the direction of the club .
Rafa needs to get the first team up to scratch first and foremost then he can concentrate on the youth set up, hopefully he’s given time and funds to do so.
As for young Lewis, according to Ryder we are only getting £1m up front for him the rest to come in instalments dependent on other stuff, so no immediate £6m for the transfer kitty as some seem to think.
kimtoon(Quote)
Thanks Kimtoon! Great insight as always I feel the same as you, sad state of affairs. Thanks for the update on the fee too, makes the deal even less appealing then. Let’s hope Rafa stays long enough to change things as you say
Simon Riddlesden(Quote)
We only got £1m up front so it’s even a worse deal than we thought!
Stuart79(Quote)
Miles Starforth @milesstarforth · 2h2 hours ago
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Told Newcastle backed away from move for Andreas Samaris. Deal wasn’t right. Went for Mikel Merino instead
Kinda makes sense as Samaris is also a defensive CM , all the same would love to of seen him come in .
kimtoon(Quote)
Mind you Samaris would be a hell of an upgrade on ginger Jack wouldn’t he.
kimtoon(Quote)
Metz close to signing Rivi , phew tfft
kimtoon(Quote)
If Gibson had went to Southampton for example, then I would buy his reasoning that he could see a better chance into their first team – but not with a move to Everton.
Up until last season they fed no players through into the first team since Rooney (that I can think of), so it’s hardly like their set up is so better than ours.
I was talking to the mother of one of our U23s at the Gateshead game and that was quite interesting.
Personally, one of the earliest Newcastle 11s I followed had a number of local lads in it – with young Clark, Watson and Howey breaking into the team and the likes of Harper & Shola are only a few years younger than me, so there have been local lads in or around the first team over the years – and still are – but we could do a lot better IMO and should be looking at clubs like Ajax and Southampton and trying to adopt whatever it is they are getting right.
Sharpy17(Quote)
I know nothing about Samaris, so its no big loss to me. Dont know much about the other midfielder we are signing, or the Sunderland full back either.
shamrock(Quote)
Kim – I reckon on hold rather than dead in the water.
Sharpy17(Quote)
I couldn’t believe a Turkish side was daft enough to want him, but a French club too ? – we could start a bidding war ?
Sharpy17(Quote)
I thought Everton had fed a few players through in the last few seasons. Probably wrong but names such as Coleman, Stones, Barkley, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Garbutt….
Isnt somebody supposedly coming through and keeping McCarthy out the side as well? Dont remember who that is. They seem like a club going places. We are nowhere near them.
shamrock(Quote)
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/newcastle-uniteds-budget-means-end-13395414
kimtoon(Quote)
kimtoon(Quote)
Lot of fans on twitter hoping Gibson doesn’t make the grade,bit un-fair like,Rafa would not say yes or no on reported chase for Benfica star but was happy media missed our chase on the new signing
Icedog(Quote)
Sham , that’s Samaris not Merino, I know nowt about Merino.
kimtoon(Quote)
Could be right
kimtoon(Quote)
Yeah that’s poor banter, hope he does well then returns to us when we are great again. 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
Sham – Coleman was bought for about 500k from an Irish side and they paid Barnsley £3m for Stones. I’ll take Barkley though – forgot about him. The rest haven’t really broke into the first team squad, and spent as much time out on loan as our boys.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Gibson was in our U18 squad and the next step on would be our U23s – but in the last 2 windows we have signing Finlay (Celtic), O’Connor (Arsenal) and ironically Yarney (Everton) for our U23 squad. I’m guessing it’s the signing of those players that Gibson sees as slowing his development. That I could accept, but if these players are seen as better prospects than what we already had in our ranks then so be it.
Sharpy17(Quote)
” … was happy media missed our chase on the new signing.”
They mustn’t have been listening when the club insider was briefing the journos. 😛
Brisvegas(Quote)
That Portuguese newspaper (Ojo is it?) keeps rattling away linking us with loads of players – Samaris, Carillo, Carvalho, Semedo. It all seems unlikely. They must be the equivalent of the Chronicle.
Going back to the kids debate. Is it the coaching? Who’s responsible? Saint Peter?
Whatever it is we’re just not bringing the players through we should be and even when a good one appears it comes to nothing. Pardew blooded Arma when he was 17. Carver picked Roberts two and a half years ago yet their careers have just stagnated. It could be you need a good strong team to bring one through and we haven’t had that for donkeys!
georgio(Quote)
Good point, you probably need a team high on quality to risk blooding a youngster in the PL
kimtoon(Quote)
So from last night Rafa said don’t expect big fees to be spent because we do t have the cash. Anyone tell me where we can get a proven goal scorer of PL quality for small change?
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu, Isn’t Remy going cheap ?
kimtoon(Quote)
Scrap that he’s gone to Besikas
kimtoon(Quote)
No scrap that too, false report, but this
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/07/27/report-newcastle-seriously-considering-re-signing-chelseas-loic/
14 hours ago that report
kimtoon(Quote)
https://twitter.com/NUFC/status/890889590298599424
Welcome and good luck
kimtoon(Quote)
I’d take Remy on loan for the season. It appears it’s all about survival his season and try and compete next season.
Stuart79(Quote)
Stu – I think explains why the negotiations of those we’ve signed so far have taken so long. Didn’t they try & pay Lejeunes release fee in instalments. I think that’s the only way I see a buy coming off – £10m up front then instalments.
Failing that, it’s going to be loan deals.
Personally, if it were the loan of Remy or £12m for Gray – I’d opt for Gray – assuming £12m is an achievable fee.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Every player has their price/value. Clearly for all parties this was a fair deal, so live with it. Gone are the days of home grown talent staying at NUFC. Just look at Waddle, Beardsley, Gascoigne, Shearer, etc – all had most of their best years elsewhere. Sir John had a vision of a team of 11 geordies, but like most good ideas his dream floundered because he was not allowed to create the sporting club he wanted and in the end sold out. Losing a reserve team did not help but PB is going well with the U23’s. How many of the top PL teams have players that have come through their own academy systems to become regular PL players?. Perhaps the PL should limit foreign players in a squad and force the issue that the 25 Squad has a certain minimum home grown academy talent. The trouble is money. Football is no longer a sport of the working class, its an entertainment available to the highest bidder. Footballers are showmen first and athletes second and maybe worshipped for all the wrong reasons.. I also disagree with this loan system unless its to purchase a player as an option. Why PL clubs need to have loan players beats me but I guess its one way around the 25 limit, I mean look at Chelsea signing up players and then loaning them out. It prevents rivals from signing them and they can still dictate the players development. Anyway back to the Toon, a loss yes but in the wider scheme of things its profitable, and when you consider the losses on some players in recent years those losses need to be corrected.
Ivor Clark(Quote)
This season is to survive and I wouldn’t get your hopes up on a cup run because staying in the PL is more important. How many times have we been down this boring road
Stem(Quote)
Look on the bright side we got free advertising in the PL for our owner.
Stem(Quote)
We get to keep Colback for another season 😥
Stem(Quote)
Rafa is still here if we can’t loan Remy then we got Riviere to fall back on
Stem(Quote)
What’s Kuqi up to?
Stuart79(Quote)
Tom Davies has broken through at Everton as well Sharpy. See what you mean but they seem to be better run than us and our youngsters generally end up being **** due to poor developement.
shamrock(Quote)
Sham – only last season though. They have better prospects on the fringe of the 1st team for sure – but that’s coz they are good players. If Gibson doesn’t work hard then it he won’t get through. But if he worked hard for us he’d get through.
I think at 16/17 his gripe is that us bringing Finlay, O’Connor and Yarney into the U23s is blocking his development.
I have to be honest, I don’t really care about loosing Gibson, coz there are some decent players in that U23 team – but we have to take a chance on them.
Everton were in a position last season where they were 7th with nobody challenging them – so they could blood some of the young uns and if they lost, well so what coz they were still 7th.
Sharpy17(Quote)
“I think at 16/17 his gripe is that us bringing Finlay, O’Connor and Yarney into the U23s is blocking his development.”
You’re probably right on that one Sharpy 🙂
I watched the whole Ardiles season when we brought through Watson, Clark, Howey, Makel, Thompson, Elliott, Appleby etc. Exciting and fun but doomed.
Bidding war for Riviere? You couldn’t make it up. Unless you offered Colback as part of the deal or for that matter Diame.
georgio(Quote)
Talksport claiming we’ve agreed personal terms with Samaris. Don’t think so.
georgio(Quote)
Wonder if KIM likes our new midfielder or still prefer Ginola lol
Icedog(Quote)
He’s in the team going to Germany,don’t think Rafa will give him some game time a bit early maybe,he won’t have unpacked his bag yet
Icedog(Quote)
Ah the lovely David Ice, no one comes close. 🙂
kimtoon(Quote)
Aye but this guy is a bit of tough nut,21 yellows in 63 games,another David Batty perhaps
Icedog(Quote)
Jack Colback probably 1 yellow per 2 games. But he is no David Batty! I did like Mr Batty. Felt sorry for him in his penalty miss for England. At least he had the guts to step up. Lots of more skilled shot takers bottled it that day.
shamrock(Quote)
You bet they did mate,cannot spoil the image they have of themselves
Icedog(Quote)
Can we really get a fee for Riviere? He was a total failure for us and I can only remember one goal from a scuffed shot. His loan last year was a disaster with no goals and only 15 games. Maybe people remember him at Monaco and since every player from there now seems to carry a 50 million price tag we can get some of our money back?
Speaking of Monaco. This situation with MBappe is crazy. Every time I look at a paper there is 20 million added to his price. It is now160 million supposedly. He really does have to be the new Christiano to justify that. At least Neymar has proved himself for a similar fee. This kid has had one season. They are talking about selling Bale and/or Benzema to pay some of the fee. That is absolute madness, why wouldn’t you let the lad have another season at Monaco to prove himself? How much higher can the fee possibly go from here even if all the hype turns out to be true?
Eric Sykes(Quote)
last i saw him play he was far from the finished product and for that price i would want the end product
icedog(Quote)
They reckon £200m is the asking price for Neymar on SSN ! 😯 it’s nuts, like figures just being plucked out the air.
kimtoon(Quote)
The argument I see now to justify these huge fees is that it is only a small percentage of the big clubs’ turnover/revenue. There are only very few clubs that make more than 400 million a year – Man U, Man City, maybe Chelsea, Barca, Bayern and Madrid. It is still nuts though because Neymar would cost about half of what these behemoths make in a year.
Look at it this way. He will cost more than NUFC will make this year and almost as much as Spurs will make. Messi and Ronaldo and even Fat Wayne have had relatively injury free careers but some aren’t so lucky. Look at Jack Wilshere, Cazorla and plenty of others mainly with cruciate trouble. Remember Michael Owen when he landed funny at the World Cup and did his cruciate. More recently we have had both Krul and Elliot land funny and do the same. There is a risk here.
Of course money is no object at PSG and they see Neymar as the final piece of the puzzle but he is not, they couldn’t even win the French League FFS and Cavani is 31.
We are in an almost perfect storm of stupidity where prices are being dragged up from the top by Oligarchs and Sheikhs and pushed up from the bottom by nouveau riche PL clubs like Bournemouth and even Everton. No wonder we have never heard of our signings because anybody you have heard of seems to get an automatic 20 million plus price tag.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
All of the bottom 13 PL teams have about the same money now. A bit of extra gate money doesn’t make that much difference nor a million or two more on a shirt deal. Are we expecting too much of Rafa? Even a **** team like Watford can attract Silva as Manager and Southampton, De Boer. These Managers have won stuff and De Boer was deemed good enough Inter, even though he was sacked after 85 days.
We can only hope that Rafa can catch lightning in a bottle because the bottom 13 are all on a level playing field now.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
I hope Merino isn’t the sheepish type.
Brisvegas(Quote)
groan
kimtoon(Quote)
Actually , the daughter brought me back some lovely gloves from NZ Bris
kimtoon(Quote)
And the merino sheep originate from Spain in an odd coincidence 🙂
kimtoon(Quote)
Baa!
georgio(Quote)
Well I hope he does well, or we will have been fleeced yet again with another flop.
shamrock(Quote)
well still think we need another m/f player and must have a striker,but ime pleased in a way we have not joined this crazy money grabbing market imo this crazy money is just going to spoil the game,sick of hearing the only have a short playing life so need big bucks thing is how do fans relate to the money being thrown about,ime of the old school as a kid fans didnt mind players getting double the money the working guys got but now its just un-real all this greed,the game will never be the same
icedog(Quote)
Don Hutch reckons we have 3 players in one! Better not let on to the powers that be , you’re only allowed a 25 man squad. 😉
kimtoon(Quote)
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/895871998?-11058:809:3
Just saw this on news now, don’t know whether it will work like, but give it a go ?
Sharpy17(Quote)
If you want to watch it on 365 you have to place a bet first mate
Icedog(Quote)
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/07/29/newcastle-united-fans-react-to-emmanuel-riviere-rejecting-metz/
What a ****,it will stuff Rafa plans 😈
Icedog(Quote)
Should be grateful he has had 2 offers if you ask me. Happy to sit on his **** and collect wages the ****.
kimtoon(Quote)
Sorry mate, didn’t read that far into it to be honest
Sharpy17(Quote)
think there will be club website radio commentary
kimtoon(Quote)
He might have preferred the Turkish club to be fair.
The trouble is we are paying him £35k a week and these clubs may struggle to get close to that.
From Rivieres point of view, why should he move for half the wage or less. We will loan him out to another club as we did last season & between us & them we will cover his £35k a week until his contract runs out.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Any live radio links?
Dubai Toon(Quote)
nah, thought I found one then my virus checker had a fit and blocked it 🙄
kimtoon(Quote)
RyderVerified account @lee_ryder · 2m2 minutes ago
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Dummett off for Gamez, Mbemba on for Clark and Aarons for Ritchie #nufc Colback is captain for second half.
Bloody hell, don’t tell Ice 😆
kimtoon(Quote)
Ryder is doing a livefeed on the Chronicle. Currently down a goal and “sluggish” in the 1st half according to Wor Lee. 29 degrees.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
typical German efficiency by sounds of it Eric. Nevermind , Scum are getting slaughtered by Celtic at the moment# everycloud 😀
kimtoon(Quote)
1.1 Gamez, deflected in
kimtoon(Quote)
Lee RyderVerified account @lee_ryder · 49s49 seconds ago
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Shelvey having a few heated words with Mainz players at the end. #nufc
really needs to learn to keep calmer that lad.
kimtoon(Quote)
2-1 to Mainz. I know we are not as big a draw as we used to be but there were only about 6,500 there and Wolfsburg is at their training ground. I just think this preseason could be managed better. On the other hand, if we did play a decent team we might get slaughtered which would be bad for confidence.
Eric Sykes(Quote)
Found a dodgy stream on firstrow but not English. I lost the last 5 mins but looks like we lost 2-1…
Dubai Toon(Quote)
Yeah, you have to weigh what you want from pre-season. Is it fitness, is it judging your players, is it integrating new players, is it exposure to new markets, is it testing your players against decent opposition? A combination probably.
That said, the Mackems lost 5-0 to a team from the Scottish Pub League so that might be a bit demoralizing with only a few days to go to the start of their season.
Eric Sykes(Quote)