Now Pardew has actually mentioned these players belonging to the ‘development squad’ a few times this season. One of the main pledges made by Derek Llambias and Mike Ashley since they joined the club was to build a youth set up that will carry the club moving forward – however I’m not seeing it.
Our line up on Saturday looked like this; Rob Elliot, Davide Santon, Mike Williamson, James Perch, James Tavernier, Vurnon Anita, Gael Bigirimana, Gabriel Obertan, Sammy Ameobi, Mehdi Abeid and Shola Ameobi. Subs used were; Sylvain Marveaux, Paul Dummett and Nile Ranger.
Santon, Williamson, Perch, Anita, Obertan, Marveaux and Shola – even Elliot – are all part of our first team squad. That leaves Sammy, Ranger, Dummett, Abeid, Bigi and Tavernier.
Sammy Ameobi is supposed to be one of our brightest young talents. He’s 21 in May. He has played 14 times for the senior side this term, averaging 45 minutes per game. He’s only played twice for the U-21’S. Compare that to our 1st team squad player Gabriel Obertan, who has played 18 times averaging 54 minutes per game. Not a lot of difference really. So is Sammy in fact a First Team squad player?
I know what you may be thinking – ‘You’re missing the point Shamrock. Pardew said these players should be in the development squad. Meaning his hands are tied. Fine, but Sammy is no spring chicken anymore! He should be making inroads into our first team squad by now. Aston Villa’s Christian Benteke and Andreas Weimann are 22 and 21 respectively for example. They are well on their way. Davide Santon – our 1st choice left back has only just turned 22. Should he be in the ‘development squad?’
Look harder at these ‘youngsters’. Nile Ranger, Bradden Inman, James Tavernier, Shane Ferguson, Paul Dummett – all 22 this year. Dan Gosling is 23 this year. Romain Amalfitano is 24 this year! Is he a ‘development player?’ If that’s the case, lets throw Vernon Anita and Gabriel Obertan in there too. They are still 23.
Why oh why did we sign Amalfitano?! A complete waste of a place in our squad. If he’s not good enough for us at 23 years old, he never will be. Mehdi Abeid was awful the other day. No fight, no passion, no effort. Did nothing of note. He’s 20 years old. If he is not hungry for a cup match and chance to impress at this stage of his career, when will he ever be? I thought our scouts were meticulous when shopping abroad? What happened here then?!
The youngest of all of these is Gael Bigirimana, who is 19. He has 10 Premier League appearances to his name already this season, averaging about 36 minutes per game. He has 10 other appearances in our cup competitions, averaging 75 minutes per game. He has played for the U-21’S just once this season. Bearing all this mind, you would have to say he is actually part of the first team set up. In fact, take away Adam Campbell (18), Curtis Good (20 in March) and Remi Streete (18) and he is amongst the youngest genuine ‘talents’ on our books.
Look around the Premiership and you will find young examples of according to Pardew at least, development age players making huge strides all over the shop:
Age 22; Benteke, Ramsay, Gueye, Allen, Henderson, Ramirez, Rose, Kyle Walker, McCarthy, Miyaichi, Hazard, Moses, De Gea, Rafael, Welbeck, Balotelli.
Age 21; Wilshere, Weimann, Clyne, Caulker, Romeu, Oscar, Macheda.
20 or under; Oxlade-Chamberlaine, Barkley, Shelvey, Sterling, Lukaku, Phil Jones, Powell, Nastasic.
By the time you get to Dan Gosling’s age you should be a nailed on first time regular. The likes of Gibbs, Walcott, Bannan, Sturridge, Gunter, Rodriguez, McClean, Colback, Meyler, Neil Taylor, Sandro, Bale, Sigurdsson and Tomkins have pretty much all been around their respective first teams for a long time. Gosling was supposed to be a huge talent, but he has stagnated with us. I know he’s been unlucky with injuries – but he just does not look like he is capable of bringing an ‘A’ game to a match anymore.
I know the above list is not exactly massive, but almost every club in the league has better genuine squad depth than us – so they can afford to bring on the odd youth and it actually benefits them because they are good enough. We are playing a bunch of youngish pro’s that would likely struggle in League 1 because we have not invested in our squad – using catchphrases like ‘development squad’ and ‘youth strategy’ as a distraction technique.
Clearly if you are good enough, you play. Santon and Bigi demonstrate this, as do countless other players strutting their stuff in this league. The time for developing is in their teens. If they get to 21, 22 and 23 and have not made a serious impression, they are not good enough!
My perception of what a ‘development team’ should be is a bunch of under 20’s. Players like Streete and Campbell, who we should send off for a couple of years on loan at GOOD clubs before being eased into the first team – or shipped out. We’ll let Good off, who has only just joined from the other side of the world. Don’t waste them on loans to League 1 and 2, or pack them off to poor Scottish sides. If these are supposed to be future Premier League stars then put them in the Championship for a year, somewhere they get relevant experience playing alongside hungry, talented pro’s chomping at the bit to make the next step up and hit the big time. So Curtis Good aside, what excuse does anybody else from this group have? Where does Pardew get off calling them ‘development squad’ players?!
This club’s bigwigs have been working on our fantastic youth set up for five years now. Pardew has had two years overseeing it. What are the results? A bunch of ‘kids’ you can’t really call kids, who will never make it in the Premiership with the exception of Bigirimana and maybe Ferguson and Vuckic.
Whatever our club have been doing with our ‘youths’, it’s not working. They need to change their ways before they ruin the careers of of our actual development players such as Adam Campbell and Remi Streete. Stop pretending these are ‘development players’ and just admit they are squad players that are not good enough. Our youth strategy is still as poor as it ever was. What is the reason? Are they all lazy? I doubt it. Were they never good enough? A few of them, probably yes… Is it bad coaching? That might explain the general lethargy, lack of organisation and work ethic displayed by our entire squad this season. If our coaches are not getting the basics right in training with our senior pro’s, then how can the understudies possibly be learning anything?
Unfortunately these players are taking up spaces in our squad that should be given to players with real ability. They have had whatever raw talent they ever possessed ripped out of them and wasted by a board unwilling to invest properly in the squad and a manager that does not seem to know what player development actually means. Keeping them at the club playing in pointless reserve games well into their 20’s and dragging them out in high pressure top of the range games for the odd 30 minutes every few weeks is not how you nurture a young pro. They should be wheeled out a couple at a time on a regular basis if not on loan – playing alongside a near full strength side so that they actually learn something. They need continuity via regular competitive match practice at a high level.
The board and Pardew took a gamble on this lot to see us through this term instead of making signings and it backfired. In the meantime they have pretty much destroyed the careers of your Sammy Ameobi’s and James Taverniers. Pardew said at the beginning of the season he was happy with his squad and would be pushing for the top four. Was he lying? Did he actually believe the words coming out of his mouth? Now he is bleating on about how they are not ready and how we ‘undercooked’ it in the summer. Either he was happy with his squad in August or he wasn’t. If he was, like he said he was – then I worry for us. If he wasn’t, then he has willingly destroyed the careers of these young pro’s just to toe the line with the Board. Spineless if that’s the case.
Lets stop making excuses now Pardew and start producing results. Have a nice big clear out in the summer of all these players who have not ‘made it’ and give us a proper squad – then take more care developing the next batch of youngsters. Fair enough, you had no other options – but don’t dress them up as youngsters. Say it how it is – our squad is woefully short of genuine competition thanks to the results of a poor and wasted youth strategy combined with a board using it as an excuse to not invest in first team playing staff properly.
Sham – I concur with all of that 😆
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
Some good thoughts and I agree that a lot of the kids/youth/reserve or whatever just haven’t cut the mustard, but I disagree about Pardew being wrong not to say how ***** they are.
I very much doubt he was happy with the squad coming into this season, but what does he do? **** off his bosses by saying such? **** off the players who he’ll need by saying that basically they aren’t good enough?
I reckon it was more of an exercise in motivation. Trying to get the players believing. Obviously it hasn’t worked in hindsight but it was probably the better option at the time. The other option being saying that we have a load of kids who will never make it and are on’y playing because the squad is so weak.
toonsy(Quote)
Young players need games look at lualua. He suddenly looked like a proper player rather than ours who ran around not really sure what to do.
Thats why loan deals are perfect for the kids as otherwise they have no chance of getting in first team to get the games they need
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
Sammi will never make it. In fact, I can’t think of any besides Bigirimana who will.
None of them have improved since coming to us and most of the youngsters have in fact got worse. So clearly our coaching is of a disgustingly poor standard or these players just never had it!
So either the coaches or scouts need to take the blame.
JJ(Quote)
Amilfitano in the game I saw him play he showed better touches, control, pace and committment than I have ever seen with abeid, sameobi, etc.
Why is he not given a go?? He must regret joining
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
Liam there was a stage Marvauex couldn’t get in the team ahead of Sammeobi. Its a joke.
JJ(Quote)
Sham good read mate and I agree with a lot of what you say, as I listed the other night only 3 of the bench players were listed by the club as being in the reserve ( Development ) squad. All the rest are members of the 1st team, and why are they members of the 1st team if they are not good enough ???? simply because they want to fill the squad places and make the 1st team look stronger than what it really is.
I agree with Toonsy aswell ie when people say why did Pards say he was happy with the squad he had ?? well he is hardly going to stat that he wasn’t happy as 1 he would probably got sacked for it 2 he was probably trying to big up the players that he knew he would have to count on.
but for me the facts are that the squad is no where near strong enough and it’s a sin because the younguns that are in the 1st team squad that are no where near good enough are not getting what they need from the club and are just being used as squad numbers or fillers just to fool fans.
Just go on the official site and have a look at some of the players that are in the 1st team and ask yourself are they ready or good enough to be there the chances are that some you won’t know the answer to because no one has seen enough of them to know if they are good enough.
Big Dave(Quote)
Something is wrong, but it all boils down to one of the key points of this article, our lack of squad depth. The top clubs send their best youngsters out on loan to the championship as they have sufficient depth not to have to rely on them. Other clubs don’t have that depth but their youngsters are good enough to get in the first XI and so get game time. With the possible exception of bigirimana, we don’t have that luxury and lets be fair he had a good season in the championship last year so has the first team experience. Something is going wrong, and I agree something has to change before the likes of cambell and streete fizzle out and end up plying their trade in the lower leagues.
Chris(Quote)
Seems like Tav, who I like and has had the loan time, Campbell and Streete are the only ones likely to make it. I thought Vuckic was but he’s had a serious long term injury every season we’ve had him. The rest are write offs.
Seriously beginning to wonder about Pardew and the rest of the backroom staff. Pardew obviously doesn’t listen to Carver and it looks like Stone is just there cos he’s geordie. Players like Abeid have actually gone backwards since we signed them.
And don’t get me started on the injuries situation . . .
georgio(Quote)
JJ – I am actually starting to think that above all else Pardew is just thick. He dont come across as the brightest but to play sameobi over marv; fergie over marv just shows he aint got a clue in identifying a player good enough to start.
He champions shola and jonas yet would leave out marv and cisse.
Liam Southern Toon(Quote)
TOONSY – you’re spot on. I can’t believe that Pardew was happy with the squad this season and I bet he was going on at the board to allow him to spend, because the squad simply isn’t good enough for a top 6 finish. The first 11 could achieve that, but it’s not possible to go through a season without injuries and suspensions, not to mention transfers out or players off form.
We all want Pardew to be completely honest with us, but he can’t come out and publically announce that all his development team are rubbish can he? That would reduce the pressure on the first team to perform, totally demotivate the development team to improving, and also reduce their value for any club who wants to buy them.
There are early bloomers (like Rooney, Sterling), and there are players who need more time. There are 23/24 years olds in the Championship that Premier League teams are looking at to make the step up. Clearly not all of our will make it, but hopefully a few become Premier League players and hopefully some of the others will make us a few quid for transfers.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
LST – not just thick but arrogantly thick!
georgio(Quote)
Few facts that may put a bit of perspective on this.
Is it 95% or 99% of academy players who are not in football by 23.
An academy that produces 1 first team squad player per year is well above the norm.
We have Krul. & Saylor.
Opinion.
What we need is 18 purples, 7 squad players & Kids. What we have is 6 purples (Colo, Debuchey, Tiote, Anita, HBA & Cisse) eg full internationals and too many squad players eg Obertan, willo etc. Last year Raylor Guthrie Best etc raised their game and we came 5th. This year they haven’t and we are suffering because of it.
Totally agree with the article. They are not kids they are poor squad players. Oh well Carr must need a sight test.
premandup(Quote)
PREMANDUP – Need???
We don’t need “18 purples”. Sure, we’d all like to have 18 international stars at our club and be challenging for the title, but given where we are, we don’t need them, and neither could we afford them. Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool all have significantly more money than us, and more pulling power to attract players. Spurs are currently ahead of us in that respect too, meaning that realistically, we’re playing for 7th at best.
Thankfully football isn’t like that, and there’s the opportunity to spring a surprise like last season.
What we really need to do is to get the club generating more profit, develop more youngsters (either to play in the first team, or sell for a profit), and continue to pick up good deals in the transfer market. All this while balancing good performances in the Premier League and hopefully an above par season to get into Europe again in the near future. All of those things go together to giving us a realistic chance to challenge for the Champions League again in a few years.
ToonDarnSarf(Quote)
Here we go again the term “made it” tavernier and sammy have been given big contracts so have made it in my eyes they need a loan spell in chanp and that will. Happen they will get back next season and play regularly and that’s how it is folks . Made it
stevo(Quote)
Premandup… 6 purples?
Krul, Colo, Debuchy, Anita, Tiote, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Cisse… You can likely add Santon to that list (certainly the board will), so that’s 8 or 9.
But, yes, agreed in principle. We should be looking to end this window with 10+ purples and extend that to 15ish ASAP. Then add some more promising players that are closer to purples than kids.
Then some kids.
blip(Quote)
Also think we need some striking and defensive cover so that we can give Campbell & Streete a spell in the Fizzy League immediately.
blip(Quote)
Off topic, this video’s good for a laugh…
For all his gangster credentials, Nile Ranger still gets beaten up by Bestie!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oOZgThIduVo
blip(Quote)
I have heard from the reserve players themselves that they are pushing to go out on loan but Pards is keepng them in the club for cover. Chicken and egg. It would make sense if he actually played them.
bkemp247(Quote)
canny read that like & agree with it.
looks like the – chatty man’s fatha – has been over-hyped a wee bit.
– it’s back to the drawing board they go for another try.
well they’ve all got 8 year contracts – so there’s plenty time.
roy cropper(Quote)
More complete and utter ***** regarding Ashley’s ‘super doopa’ business model!
How many young kids have we produced who have made an impact since he arrived? Diddly squat!
Add that to a net transfer gain of circa £30m he’s not done too bad himself has he…
Stuart79(Quote)
ROY didnt you know we are going for a new new new 5yr plan,we just need to know when it starts 😀
icedog(Quote)
aye dog – it makes you laugh.
roy cropper(Quote)
TOONSY good read,of coarse the board are to blame for lack of investment,but whose is it that really says “right”we will bring this kid in cannot be down to one guy, or the coaching of these kids is just not up to it because of all the kids i have seen apart from maybe 3 they are just not going to make anywhere near the pl or ccc,div 2 at the very best with a lot of luck
icedog(Quote)
Shamrock ,Good read . Got to agree with you ,our whole approach to developing players is wrong and it seems when we do sign a lad with real promise (Abied, amifitano) they go backwards or lose interest in playing for us. Is this because our coaches have less technical ability than their charges ❗ makes you wonder . Quite what Benny ,Marv ,Cabaye et al make of our current hoofball is anyones guess. IMO if a lad is 21 or older I don’t consider that developmental age range as by then it should be clear if they will make it or not . There is the occasional late bloomer but not often, the biggest favor the club can do for the likes of Remy Street and Campbell now is send them out on loan to a Championship club to hone their skills as hanging around having the odd reserve game is no good to them what so ever. We have around 8 to 9 1st class players when all on form ,clearly not enough depth in any way ,the back up isn’t PL worthy from what I have seen ,Sammi ameobi on saturday was so out the game he was almost on strike appalling display and Oba wasn’t much better which was really dissapointing as he’d had two good displays previously 🙄 .Too many inconsistant performances from lots of players this season and a sense of low moral and fight has wrecked the season so far and the worst part is there IS NO backups good enough to threaten players spots to give them the shake up they need.
KIMTOON(Quote)
stu, the only good one was carroll ..so we sold him as quick as we could…. we have a mid championship side at best. thats it. Ba has been gone over a week and no replacement. we have 1 striker as stroller is banned.. its a joke.. or nightmare and we are going down..i will put money on norwich trashing us proper.
craig chisholm(Quote)
SHAMROCK sorry mate i know its your thread 🙁
icedog(Quote)
ROY kna mate makes you cry 😥
icedog(Quote)
You wouldn’t mind them being ***** if they dug in and battled ,but no they hide all game ,it’s criminal what happened on saturday and to think Toon fans had to get up at 1.00am in the morning to travel 7/8 hours to witness that . 👿
KIMTOON(Quote)
Toonsy… he should spoken the truth as no matter what, it will always come out in the end, as sure as ****.. look at it now.. would it have been better to say it at the start of the season when the fans were all saying it, all the pundits, ex players, newspapers, everyone OR wait til we are total ****, going down, loose your best player and the man that has scored half our teams goals on his own.. then say when the heads are down… we are ****, we dont have enough good players blah blah.. he has said it at the worst time possible… he should have said all that back in the summer.. cos now it looks like he is just full of **** as contradicting himself and lost credability. it was obvious to a blind man that we needed more top draw players… why cant the so called experts see it… i know why and so do we all.. its cos they do know.. ashley does not want to spend a penny on nufc palyer outlay.. not now and not ever again.
craig chisholm(Quote)
It seems from the first team on down the ownership is failing the club. We have a weak first team with several players who aren’t good enough. We have a fairly weak reserve side who have been badly beaten several times this season. We have several so-called development players who are probably too old now to really benefit from playing reserve games or being loaned out to poor teams in weak divisions. We have only 2 teenagers who can potentially make the grade: Campbell and Bigi. We have several players in their early twenties who just can’t stop getting injured: most notably Gosling, Vuckic and yes even Saylor. Where does that leave us after 5 years with this owner? As far as young players are concerned, no further ahead than we were several years ago even after the reserve team clearout last season. Spot on Shamrock for pointing it out.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Excellent comments all through the posting. Maybe Ash/Llam should read it and weep. They haven’t got a set of plums between them. That is our biggest problem. A gutless billionaire pauper owner.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
This whole Remy story doesn’t add up. It seems clear he doesn’t want to go to QPR (who would?) yet we have made no formal offer. What are we waiting for? Is it possible we do have to sell someone before we make an offer for him? Thinking about Craig Chisholm’s comments (and my own pauper billionaire statement) I fear this is the case. No money in, no money out. The Ba fee nearly covered the cost of Debuchy. We are a balance the books club now and it appears Ashley is still willing to take chances with our Prem status. The lack of fight in the team at times is very disturbing and we just sit here with only Cisse as a true first team striker. Madness but not if the only thing you care about is balancing the books. How well will the books balance if we are in the Championship next season Ashley? After a season of **** poor play will our players go for record transfer fees do you think?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Shamrock – really well written mate, it could have easily read that you were just slagging our young players off, but you have used great examples of other younger players from other clubs to make the point well.
I completely agree with you. Isn’t there a saying “if you’re good enough, you’re old enough”.
I can understand Pardew not sending Tav out on loan when Raylor got injured coz we’d have had no RB if Simmo go injured. But players like Sammi, Fergie, Abied and Campbell could all have gone out on loan.
I know Dummett has just come back from loan at St Mirren, but with all due respect, if that’s the standard of club he’s getting loaned to, is that really preparation for the EPL?. If our late teen/early twenties ‘development’ players aren’t good enough to be getting regular(ish) games for Championship sides, then are they ever going to be good enough to develop into EPL players?.
You can’t tell me teams like Barnsley, Bristol City or Huddersfield – bottom end of the Championship, couldn’t do with a few extra players in their squads. Clubs like this don’t have loads of money, so we say to them, play these players X amount of games and we pay their wages!.
Surely it has to be that easy?!, then, if they are not good enough, we let them go!.
Sharpy17(Quote)
ToonDarnsarf
You quite right we don’t need and cant afford 18 purples, however as we grow financially we should be moving in that direction.
Blip.
You are right, I forgot Cabaye. However neither Krul nor Santon are regular starters at full international level, and whether the board think of them as Purples is irrelevant. They could well become Purples. I fully expect them to. Possibly one or two others with luck.
I still think that the contribution made by squad players upping their game is a major factor in our current plight because the squad players who are available are not producing. The Kids as Shamrock rightly points out are neither kids nor producing.
premandup(Quote)
I’m starting to see a theme with our aquisitions ,we seem to make it obvious we are interested in a player put out some feelers and sit back and let the press have a field day with it ,towards the end of the window we go in with a lowball offer ,refuse to budge and end up with nowt ,the old couldn’t get him over the line thing .End result is an unsettled player who we go back in for in the next window and usually get cheaper. All this wheeling and dealing is fine in a world where your business doesn’t get relegated but it’s one hell of a gamble in football terms as there is always the prospect of losing out on the original target or he may change his mind about joining us . It’s amazing that Debuchy still signed given our precarious position.
KIMTOON(Quote)
We have been subjected to a lot of bullshit from the PR dept.
We have the best scout in the PL, our coaches are terrific, as is our manager.
So good in fact we awarded him to an eight year deal (which turns out to be, if fired, one years pay ? Whaaat ?, yes it’s only an eight year deal for Ashley)
Some may disagree, but from my perspective, we can lay the entire blame on Ashley, who from day one has had the final say on everything that has happened.
The man is some egotist, refusing to hire the very people that could make his club successfu, a good GM and a manager.
I mean what does Llambias know about football, or for that matter Pardew?
But evryone wants a job and no one is willing to tell the king he has no clothes.
Ah well, perhaps the learning curve will take a change in direction., but dont count on it.
chuck(Quote)
Cheers for feedback and giod comments from all. Sharpy I’d agree with that. Toonsy I know what you are saying, but not only did Pards say he was happy, he said he was so happy with the squad we’d be pushing the Top 4!
I think he should have said we are slightly understrength, but this is youngsters chance – and if they take it we might make Top 6… Then he should have used the ‘youths’ in a more structured way. You know, just been a bit more honest about it without totally p***ing off the board.
Hey ho, hopefully they will learn from this…
Shamrock(Quote)
Sharpy@34 ,That’s a great point mate ,my hometown club Bristol City are desperate for some fresh faces to inject some impetus into the squad ,Someone like Campbell would become a hero overnight if he could bring the goals.
KIMTOON(Quote)
http://www.newcastle.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=304966
Completely agree with this article.
JJ(Quote)
Shamrock ,That’s the trouble with Pards though ,he opens his gob before engageing his brain 🙄
KIMTOON(Quote)
There is one piece of good news I can think of. We can finally shed ourselves of Xisco in the summer. What a waste of 5 years wages he has been. While we’re at it with letting go of Xisco next summer let’s sell/clear out a few more. I think time will be up on Gosling, Simpson (he will leave on a free), Abeid, Amalfitano (the signings of these 2 are a complete mystery to me), and if possible Ranger. Bring in 5 or 6 decent replacements (not young development players!!!) for them and we will have some real competition for first team spots. If not we will have more of the same dross we have had this season. How would we ever mount a decent cup run with the squad we have. That was supposed to be one of Pardew’s big priorities when he came to us. Premandup has it right. We have to have a much better squad of players to choose from.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
JJ good read. Can’t disagree with it.
premandup(Quote)
Incidentally, I agree with Pardew when he said that short of Krul and Marveaux, that team was the strongest he had available to him. I heard a couple of theories that Pard played that team to make a point to the board about lack of strength in depth to our squad. Whilst it was highlighted, I don’t believe that was Pardews intention, and he probably thought (as I did) that that team would have turned on a far better performance than they did – whether they got beat or not.
Sharpy17(Quote)
JJ@40 ,That’s a well researched /written article that.
KIMTOON(Quote)
Batty – Big S – Toonsy – drop me an email fellas – monumental!
Stardust(Quote)
Big D even!
Stardust(Quote)
Love some of these….
http://www.cominghomenewcastle.com/2013/1/8/3851186/chelsea-demba-ba-ask-newcastle-west-ham
blip(Quote)
They’re harsh but funny BLIP. Still he scores goals doesn’t he? Isn’t that what strikers are supposed to do? We should ask Shola about that. He might have a different opinion. Or perhaps we should ask the owner. He seems to think top goal scorers should accept low wages. That theory has worked out well so far hasn’t it?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Geordietwo just wondered why you say Xisco is a waste ?? is it just that he hasn’t played or that he is **** etc etc ???
Big Dave(Quote)
Stardy done 😉
Big Dave(Quote)
Big Dave I just mean we haven’t seen goals from him (except 1 hat trick for the reserves). Surely if he was playing well he would have gotten a chance by now? With our current striker situation he isn’t even considered. I would have to think Pardew has watched him and doesn’t rate him. If he does have something to offer then it makes even less sense that we haven’t given him a chance. I believe he had 2 goals in over 20 appearances during his last loan. If Shola is our second choice striker and Ranger is third where does that put Xisco? And after 5 years with us we can’t see we haven’t had time to assess him. Such a mess. It just points to chaos within the club.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Sorry that should read we can’t say we haven’t had time to assess him. 😳
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Hasn’t came through Dave not sure what add you have for me ? asked Troy to FB you with it – it’s 100 percent correct
Stardust(Quote)
Geordietwo I think it’s something to do with his contract , ie once he plays over a certain amount of games his old club gets more money.
As I said to Kim the other night Xisco has played 300 mins in the prem for us and has scored 1 goal Strolla has played 426 mins in the prem this season and he has a grand total of ???? you guessed it 1 goal
Big Dave(Quote)
JJ @40. Yes that’s well written. It’s another theory about our troubles which makes a lot of sense. And again it comes down to a lack of spending by the owner. Even coaches cost money and we don’t have any. Why have 20 experienced competent people helping the team to compete well when you can perform poorly with 3?
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Stardy check again me old bean
Big Dave(Quote)
Yesh JJ good write up that. Blip, funny but harsh 😆
Shamrock(Quote)
It’s a sad situation Big Dave. People fall over themselves to praise Shola after 1 decent game every now and then but still he goes out there most of the time and looks like a tree planted on the pitch. 31 now and only getting slower yet I know he has been a good servant of the club as well. Pardew clearly loves him no matter how poorly he plays, just as with Jonas this season. More fingers pointed at Pardew I would think.
GeordieTwo(Quote)
Kim – I really don’t understand why we don’t get in touch with newly promoted teams to the Championship and offer them players on loan. That would get at least 2-3 out and playing to a decent standard, and as I say, if they give them say 20 plus games in the season, we will pay their wages – it’s a player for free.
Ranger done ok at Shef Wed last season and Vuckic had a good spell at Cardiff I seem to remember. I think players like Fergie, Abied and Campbell could progress loads playing regular games in the Championship.
Mind in saying that, I would only do that with players Pardew sees fitting into his long term plans and not just coz we haven’t got the balls to say to a player – you’re not good enough.
Geordie Two – yeah mate, said a similar thing yesterday. There will be a number of players available on a free transfer in the summer that could replace our ‘deadwood’ players.
Sharpy17(Quote)
GEORDIETWO I always felt a bit sorry for Xisco as he has never got a real chance and was basically blamed for the KK fiasco
Big Dave(Quote)
Got it and replied!
Stardust(Quote)
I dont feel bad for Xisco. His form on loan has been aweful and several Toon managers have not rated him. Mix all that together and you get the consistency of brown poo. 😯
Shamrock(Quote)
Kim – I really don’t understand why we don’t get in touch with newly promoted teams to the Championship and offer them players on loan. That would get at least 2-3 out and playing to a decent standard, and as I say, if they give them say 20 plus games in the season, we will pay their wages – it’s a player for free.
Ranger done ok at Shef Wed last season and Vuckic had a good spell at Cardiff I seem to remember. I think players like Fergie, Abied and Campbell could progress loads playing regular games in the Championship.
Mind in saying that, I would only do that with players Pardew sees fitting into his long term plans and not just coz we haven’t got the balls to say to a player – you’re not good enough.
Geordie Two – yeah mate, said a similar thing yesterday. There will be a number of players available on a free transfer in the summer that could replace our ‘deadwood’ players.
For me, if we get in a CF and CB this Jan, our 1st team is taken care of – subject to no/few injuries of course. That would allow Pardew to sort out the rest of the squad, without having to spend a fortune – if he and Carr are smart and know who’s coming available.
Sharpy17(Quote)
Don’t entirely agree. Ba was a late bloomer true? i think you’re focusing too much on age and not on whether they are improving or not. points.valid on gosling, fair. people like sammi have improved this year, they deserve time. did we ever think perch would become a squad player?
SolanosTrumpet(Quote)
😆 😆 I have nee idea what happened with me posts there like 😳
Sharpy17(Quote)
ST do you really think Sammi has improved ❓ as I can’t see any improvement and I would go as far as to say a few times last year he was roughly the same only he run around a lot more than he does now
Big Dave(Quote)
I see where you are coming from ST. I dont think any of them, except Fergie and Bigi, have shown improvement. They are not good enough for the PL and never will be in my opinion. Campbell & Streete should be on season long loans at decent clubs so that they can learn in a ‘real’ environment. I think our youth set up has been badly managed gor years and now we are seing a set of emerging fringe players that once were promising youths, who are now set for careers in League 1
Or St bloody Mirren.
Shamrock(Quote)
(THIS IS A GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING. THIS POSTER IS LIABLE TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR POINT OF VIEW. ONLY ENGAGE IF YOU AREN’T SENSITIVE AND DON’T TAKE HISSY FITS)
Shamrock – good read mate and a bit of research gone into it.
I agree with most of it. The youths in the main seem a country mile off breaking through.
For me, Sammi who is one of our main hopes, will never make a premiership player.
Troy Stavers(Quote)
Demba Ba hit the ground running at lower level clubs at 20, only to get a nasty injury before his move to hoffenheim at 22, where he did well.
I appreciate you occasionally get a late bloomer but in the main, if they are not pushing 1st team as a genuine squad player by 21,22 then they dont make the step up.
Shamrock(Quote)
Troy I agree on Sammi if he gets away for some real footie he might become a decent championship player, but he’ll need to hurry
Big Dave(Quote)
Sham @ 70 I agree 100% with that
Big Dave(Quote)
Shamrock – yeah I agree. I think if you look at the likes of Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck at Man U – they are around 23-24yrs but have pretty much nailed down a first team squad place now – ie starting 11 or bench. I use those 3 as examples as they have had stiff competition ahead of them, but still been good enough to come through.
Tav isn’t trying to replace a Vidic or Ferdinand, Gosling isn’t trying to replace a Giggs or Scholes and Ranger or Vuckic aren’t trying to replace a Rooney or Henandez.
Sharpy17(Quote)
The thing is though how can you expect our younger players to be any good playing in a team that cant string 5 passes together, I thought tav looked quite good at cb and for me he should be in there now ahead of williamson, then you have ameobi and ranger playing in front of Campbell and sammy getting a game before the likes of Amalfitano. Its fucking mental i think the likes of abeid amalfiano tav and campbell look like good little technical footballers but for whatever reason our coaching and management team pick the physical thick players instead.
Alex(Quote)
curtis Good starts for bradford tonight so we have a chance to look at him and decide if hes also better than williamson 😛
Alex(Quote)