The Four Horsemen of Our Apocalypse

Conquest, War, Famine and Death or just rubbish footballers?
Conquest, War, Famine and Death or just rubbish footballers?
Everyone likes to rag on Gouffran, Obertan, Marveaux and Williamson, and I think these are the four players everyone loves to hate, but the transfer window is closed now so what do we have?

Goofy: when he first arrived he seemed decent but has suffered the curse of the utility player. He has had such a dramatic loss of form that a lot of fans have turned against him. He has been played all over the shop and now he has no positional sense. I feel sorry for him.

Squidward: The player with no end product, and who wouldn’t have a girlfriend if he wasn’t a highly paid footballer! We were probably the last ones to be duped by Ferguson (except maybe Man U when they hired Moyes), but three of our Managers have seen something in him, the latest being McClaren. It is like Friday the 13th, he cannot be killed and there is always a sequel. He will continue to frustrate and probably will find a team looking to his potential when he is 30!

Marv-the-Groin: People forget that we hijacked his transfer to Liverpool and he was very well thought of in France. He has since had an operation that put him out for 18 months and I am not even sure if he has ever been fully fit although he showed glimpses of being a decent player. Now he has another groin injury. I am told that his Missus has been on the internet looking for a bit of strange.

Willo: what can you say? He is scared of the ball and likes a hoof. But he has been played under all of our last four managers. He is behind our current incumbents, but he may be only one injury away from a recall. Dummett and Lascelles are untested and Steven Taylor may fall off the mantlepiece again and break. Don’t be so sure we haven’t seen the last of him.

Three of these four have contracts expiring next year, with Gouffran being the exception. We supposedly had offers and they will be worth nowt in January. So what exactly is our transfer policy with our deadwood? Probably, their wages are too high and the usual hardball tactics meaning we don’t get the deal done, right? My opinion is get them out so that the Manager does not have the option to ever play them again.

However, if past is prologue we will be seeing some of them in the first team again by Halloween. There is always room for temporary redemption at NUFC. Be afraid, be very afraid.

234 thoughts on “The Four Horsemen of Our Apocalypse

  1. Nice headline. We need to get the discipline and injuries sussed or we will run into big trouble again this season. Still not convinced by the back line and thought we’d have done a better job shipping out the dead wood.

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  2. Nice article. 🙂

    Squad depth is needed though. We can’t have international backup in every position. I hope all of these players don’t feature but you never know…who would have expected Jonas to have popped up with a goal in the last game of last season???

    Every club has players that wouldn’t be good enough to sign for them, but it doesn’t hurt to have players who know the club and know other players and we can call on them when needed.

    Just hopefully we don’t need them too much…

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  3. Good article Eric. Good read, I just read somewhere Ashley’s ready to sell 🙂 I know it’s probably bollox but I hope it’s true.

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  4. Perhaps we could also try scoring goals now that Manure and Arsenal are out the way. Heroic defending yes, but I’m pretty sure the aim of the game is to score and win. General rule of football suggest you have to score to win and as far as I understand you don’t get 3 points unless the score every now and then.

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  5. Thanks Eric…. 😉

    Sham….. stopping the rot at the back is the biggest concern that needed to be addressed first and foremeost. You talk about attacking play but it is no good scoring 3 goals if we leak 6 in return. SM has obviously focussed on our biggest flaw and is working hard to correct it… The attacking football will come… hopefully….

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  6. Saido Berahino what a wimp took his ball and ran off home to mammy,just glag we did not go for that idiot 😆 😆

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  7. Nice article.

    Personally I think Marv has the more talent than from them but he’s always injured so not much point in the talent. Willie for me is, well, er, enough said! Gouffran bothers me because if we have wingers with the pace and skill of Thauvin and Aarons it will be a bit of a come down when he plays instead. Will we have to change the way we play? Hopefully not. As for Obertan, he has this strange aversion to taking players on. That’s not a bad thing if you’re a centre back but as a winger it’s a real concern.

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  8. Good article Eric.

    It bothers me that we still have these players in our squad. Is it because we set their fee too high?, or is it that their wages have put clubs off?.
    The 3 who’s contracts are up in the summer I would have allowed to leave on a free. The loss in fees would have been counter balanced by the wages saved on players who won’t play – or won’t play much.

    Goof – I also feel a bit sorry for. He had a good spell when we had Remy, and chipped in with afew goals. He would be my back up to Sissoko on that right flank I think.

    Obertan – I have never really rated as a footballer. The kids an athlete, a runner and if you put a football at his feet, the law of averages say that he will occasionally do something decent with it.

    Willo – is simply out of his depth in the PL. Good pro, but just not good enough.

    Marv – IMO will go down on the list of toon talents that never made it.

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  9. Some say we have a thin squad but some say we should have let this lot leave on frees?

    We keep these players for squad depth. They’re not going to shoot us into the top 6, but they can all do a job if required. I think it’s a good thing that we’re not relying on any of them to do a job regularly.

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  10. Thanks Eric

    Goof. I never know where his position is. Not an out an out winger, nor a striker. Not even a second striker. So has talent, but we have better. Can’t see him as a starter. Maybe versatile cover on the bench??

    Obe, I agree he’s an athlete rather than a talented footballer. Seems to impress the pros though. Again I feel a squad player at best who will leave at season end.

    Willo. When we first came back up he was a valuable member of the tem, and I remember big debates as to who was a better partner for Collo, Willo or Saylor. Now however the standards in the Prem have gone much higher and he has got older. Been a great servant, but cant see the contract being extended.

    Marv however may still have a future. I’ve always had reservations about his usefulness. Was it Stem? who I used to debate this with. Whoever, my apologies. He felt that his assist rate was second to none and hence he should be in the team. I argued that overall the team had worse results when he started so did not fit in well. However, new manager who knows. Good Luck. May be a new signing :mrgreen:

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  11. good read eric.
    didnt marv have the most assists before percy thought he was nee good.

    and this is the problem we will have if injuries kickin,we will have to rely on the likes of willo and goofy.mybe macclaren can get more out of them than percy and carver could,but i doubt it.
    injuries will be the key to our season,lets hope its not as bad as the past,if it is we are fooked.

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  12. The truth is we’re overstocked with players that nobody else will pay for. The four that Eric (rightly) named are the tip of the iceberg. There’s another six or seven who just are not good enough. Deadwood

    However, I’m behind McClaren’s stance. To sign 6 or 7 newbies at one go would be too much especially so many young ones (Mitro, Mbemba, Thauvin,- plus Aarons, Perez) and that’s probably where Colo’s new contract came from. We need to forge a team and the essential mix of experience and youth – it will take 2 or 3 more windows, adding 1,2 or 3 at a time.

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  13. Williamson I’d have sold to Cardiff a couple years back when they had the chance but while he’s here he’ll do a job. Marveaux should have been used more & could be useful when he’s fit (Which is Sep 14th apparantly)

    Gouffran has completely regressed since that 5 in 5 spell, moving on would have benefitted him as much as the club. Obertan is a waste of space & while I’ve agreed with most things McClaren has done so far, putting him on the bench rather than Aarons had me pulling my hair out.

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  14. I raised a point a few weeks back that players currently under contract with our club can simply say they are not going anywhere, if that is what they choose to do. We can do nothing about it. . Then one of the realists 😆 said we can simply delist them! 😳 just goes to show that some of the self called oracles of everything NUFC, don’t know half as much as they think! 😉

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  15. Good read mate well done,it will take a while to get the team to gel it will also take a while to sort the men from the boys,most fans know the **** that’s at the club but SM can sort it himself now you never know he might pull a rabbit out the bag with one of them but I doubt it,just pleased this dam window is closed it should have been before the season kicked off imo

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  16. CC – he only played Obertan while they waited for Thauvin.
    I reckon, that like most fans, Mac could see straight away that Cisse, Willo, Tiote, Gouffran and Obertan are not PL quality. Aarons needs careful handling re his fitness and the jury on SDJ being able to play in England is still out. So while the numbers in the “squad” look OK, those fit for the first team are too small (I’m not counting Riviere or Marv either)

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  17. HITMAN you were right over Austin he was going to C/P but Austin himself knocked back the deal on the last day

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  18. I don’t rate any of the 4 mentioned, but with 3 out of contract at the end of the season, the deadwood will take care of itself. With a suggested £100m still in the kitty, I’d hope that Carr and his boys are identifying new quality additions.
    But what’s important now is that McClaren & his coaching staff work hard with what we currently have to make NUFC a club those quality players will want to join.

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  19. The Mirror just did a “power ranking” of the transfer business and rated us 16th. I couldn’t give a flying F what The Mirror think, but aren’t they one of our preferred media partners? I wonder what they would rate it at if they were banned?

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  20. Well my reporter friend was wrong he said there was a medical booked,nowt happened but he got two out of three right so fair dog’s,mind he could have been right if our late bid on that defender had come off

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  21. Eric – I’m more interested where we finish in the league than the ‘power rankings’ personally mate.

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  22. Interesting article – not sure I’d say I hated them though! I just wish they’d jog on really. Marv has class unlike the others, but he made Ben Arfa look like a workhorse in some matches, and he’s one of those players we seem to get who are forever injured.

    Goof was a funny one – had a decent period and a decent start, then some claimed he’d been “pardewed”. As I said at the time, you usually get what you pay for, and we paid about 700k for him. Definitely suffered burnout after his first 7 months or so. There’s a role in the squad for people like him, but I just don’t think he’s specialist enough to nail down a position and I think we’d all rather see our youngsters play in the positions that he can cover anyway.

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  23. The only thing I can think of that will be more boring than listening to Rooney and Woy in the build up to San Marino is watching the game. Or maybe regrouting the bath-tub.

    Why exactly do we have these international breaks?

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  24. Eric – what kind of football man are you?! – you are honestly telling me that you aren’t looking forward to the mighty Jamie Vardy leading the line for the international super force that is England??!!!!

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  25. Baffled why some people seem to think we should have just given these players a free transfer! So it makes sense to pay up the rest of their contracts and release them for free does it? Pay millions and have a thinner squad? Yeah, makes sense. We could always sign Shola on a free then…

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  26. TDS: because sometimes they take up space that could be profitably used on other players. Take Obertan. In 4 years he has had maybe 2 goals and 4 assists (I haven’t looked up the stats). That is simply not good enough and if we let him go it would be addition by subtraction.

    Please take Obertan.

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  27. In France and England, Obertan has had 139 games and scored 6 goals. For us, it is 56 games and 2 goals. I couldn’t find the “assist” numbers but I bet they aren’t many.

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  28. Obertan 74 appearances for Toon. 3 goals, 10 assists. His market value is 700k which says it all. Not PL class but on 40k pa allegedly. That explains why we can’t shift him.

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  29. Shamrock: that is actually better than I thought. I looked up the numbers on wikipedia for goals and they must be out of date. I suppose there aren’t that many people following Obertan on an online encyclopedia.

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  30. These players aren’t taking up a slot for anyone else because we don’t have anyone else! We currently have 26 players that aren’t on loan and need to be registered between now and January. I imagine 1 of those will leave one way or another and we register 25.

    Why would it make more sense to register 22? We can play the youth players instead of them anyway.

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  31. Just shows basically how shallow our squad is after you take away 14 players. Let’s just hope we have better luck with injuries than we normally do.

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  32. TDS – if you have a question for someone, just ask it rather than leaving snipey posts mate 😉

    Eric & Sham give valid points regarding Obertan – his contribution has been poor & his realistic market value minimal – yet we were probably hoping to recoup most of the £3m wasted on him. No takers so instead we are left paying £40k pw for a player who will barely feature this season.
    Marv – has been with us 4 yrs now and managed 38 games during that time – contributing 1 goal …. he’s on around £55k pw. His market value is £1.4m – hardly a huge sum to write off if your saving £55k pw.

    Willo – is probably 5-6th choice CB now and I think it’s pretty unanimous we don’t want to see him back in the side. His current market value is £1.75 and he’s picking up £35k pw

    Goof – his market value is around £4.2m. He’s played 81 games and scored 11 goals. He’s getting £45k pw.

    That’s a whole lot of wages to be shelling out for ‘squad players’. Oh, and while you’re paying Obertan & Gouffran that money to be bit part players, how do you negotiate a new contract for Aarons for less than those wages?.

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  33. ive just been looking at obas wiki page,it says he has played 139 games scoring only 6 goals,that carnt be reet,and if it is who the fook thought it was a good idea to bring him here.

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  34. Sharpy: if you cancel those players contracts you have to pay them off though. So you aren’t saving anything. You have to transfer them to get rid of the wages. That will be much easier in January as they will be looking for new deals for an extended period and not just picking up money from the NUFC *** for the 6 months from now until then.

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  35. Squad’s a lot less shallow than it was, but still lots of potential weaknesses. Unless very unlucky, I think we’ll be ok for a 10th-12th finish.

    Seems to be a decent 14 that everyone accepts are good enough:

    Krul, Janmaat, Mbemba, Colo, Haidara, Anita, Colback, Wij, Thavin, Sissoko, Perez, De Jong, Mitrovic, Cisse

    Plus another 6 who have various question marks against them but can probably do a job:

    Darlow, Elliot, Taylor, Dummett, Tiote, Aarons

    Then 6 who have more questions about them:
    Willo, Gouff, Marv, Oba, Lascelles, Riv

    I’d expect Willo, Marv and one of Gouff or Oba off our hands in January, replaced by 2 decent signings.

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  36. Eric – you misunderstand mate, I’m not saying cancel their contracts, never have. What I’m saying is accept whatever someone is will pay. We want £2m for Willo – Leeds offer £1m – take it. Offer them for nowt if needs be, but don’t hold out for our valuation on fringe/deadwood players on big wages. I’m not saying it would necassarily work mind you, coz the player still has to agree personal terms – but it would certainly increase our chances of shifting at least 1 or 2 of them.

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  37. SHARPY

    Not sure if you get how these contracts work then mate. The player doesn’t have to leave, they are probably all demanding that their contracts are paid up in full in order to leave, plus there are loyalty bonuses and early termination clauses that would mean we’d end up paying million just for the privilege of releasing them on a free transfer. So either someone had to bid for them, we loan them out and recoup some of the wages or we have them stick around and give us more depth. I can see Obertan playing a few minutes this season so why not keep him? Hardly anyone would have predicted Jonas’ contribution last season, so maybe Obertan will have a part to play.

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  38. Not bad listings GTE! From that lot I’d differ by taking Cisse and De Jong out of the 14 and adding Aarons and Dummett. I’d also add Darlow just in case, so 15 with Arma back in January.

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  39. Its about that wat, Georgio – individual feeling, some don’t think Cisse’s up to it, others that Aarons has alot still to prove, but the numbers are about right. My main point is that come January we’ll likely have a lot less dead-wood and I can, for the first time in years, see the way to a decently balanced squad.

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  40. SHARPY

    But still, the player has to want to go and take a wage cut. But most will demand we may up their contract or at least subsidise the loss that they will be taking on the lower wage. Even £1m by the time you consider agent’s fees etc. and the cost of paying off the player, probably means you’re paying for a player to leave, and then what happens when you have to stick an 18 year old in who isn’t ready?

    Besides, the likes of Willo are going to be great in the dressing room and with some of the younger players. It’s a crazy salary for that but many club have benefited from players sticking around for that role.

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  41. Sharpy – that’s the way. Trouble is we have so many we couldn’t even give away – some of the buggers will want a testimonial next 😆

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  42. Well I worry about injury but haven’t we brought some guys in to try and ease that

    So A.Cole says he knocked us back on deadline day,have my doubts about that like

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  43. I really don’t get this at all. Papers are saying we are still looking at Austin in January when he might cost 7-8 Million. Why did we not pay the extra 5 mil yesterday when Mitrovic is suspended and totally unproven anyway? Austin keeps banging them in at whatever level he plays at so what is the risk?

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  44. TDS – are you telling me we are playing Marv £55k pw, Oba £40k pw, Goof £45k pw and Willo £35k pw for their wit and sense of humour?!.
    That’s a combined salary of £9.1m we are going to pay out on those players this season.
    Personally, I’d rather turn to Aarons than Marv – a young player wanting to prove himself, or a one coming to the end of their NUFC career and is only sticking round coz he won’t get the same inflated wage with a club he’d get more game time with.
    I’d rather sell Obertan for a minimal fee, or loan him out and loan Nathan Dyer.
    Willo as I say is 5-6th choice, so he could go without need of a replace or to be replaced with a RB.

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  45. even then if i wanted austin i would sign him for nothing and take him at the end of the season

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  46. Some people on here are mad as hatters!!! Why would it be so difficult to find buyers for these players Sharpy mentions at reduced prices? The less the buying club pays they will probably just pay the player more so they wouldn’t be taking such a wage cut.

    But even more staggering some people think if we offered them all on free transfers there wouldn’t be clubs willing to take them but also the players wouldn’t leave! It really is unbelievable!

    Give Marv a free transfer and I would reckon he wouldn’t have to take such a big pay cut that’s for sure.

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  47. He marks virtually everyone as a B! Some B-, some B+ but only a few As or Cs. Surely the like of Arsenal should be a D if they want to challenge for the title? Also I think Villa, Norwich and Sunderland have had bad windows. So have Spurs as they only have Kane up front.

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  48. Stu – didn’t we do it with Barton when we decided he was surplus to requirements.
    Like I say £9.1m on those 4 players wages this season – got to be worth taking a hit on the fees to ensure they move on. Plus, reducing the wage bill of their wages would free up money to allow us to give the likes of Aarons or Armstrong a much better contract and avoid risking loosing our better younger players.

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  49. SHARPY

    I almost completely agree mate! But football is mad!

    100% agree on Aarons. I’d far rather see him play than Marv. But we could see Marv on the bench if we have a few injuries or suspensions and he could still have a part to play.

    But I’d far rather see those roles filled by exciting youth players, but at the same time, we want those players playing regularly and we haven’t got too many…

    Thing is with loaning players like Dyer (and I think he went somewhere yesterday?), is that they only want to join a club to play. He’s not going to join us to stay as a bit part, he may as well stay where he is. And I’d far rather we play one of our players than a loan player.

    Agree Willo could potentially go as he’s got to be 5th/6th choice.

    If we start the precedent of paying up contracts to let players go, then no club would ever bid for our fringe players, they’d just wait until the last minute and get them for free. Come on…that element is entirely business, it’s not about football. I’m totally in agreement that certainly Marv and Willo should have little or no part to play this season. Goofy might play the Jonas role and Oba…well, only if we have several injuries and need to inject some pace.

    Every club has fringe/squad players that can fulfil a role if required. We can’t just have ultra ambitious players, because they demand to leave if they’re not playing.

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  50. SHARPY

    Difference with Barton was that he was a ****. He was disruptive to the club. These 4 guys aren’t putting our disruptive tweets, they’re just getting on with their jobs as best they can.

    Did you see he slagged off QPR after he left too? *****.

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  51. SHARPY

    I’ve already addressed the £9.1m. No way we could save that much! We say some of those players can move for free and no club bothers bidding for our fringe players again. They a French club offers him £6kpw and Marv demands that either we pay up his contract (maybe minus £4kpw) or he stays where he is and takes the big payday.

    Probably better to loan them out and take the £6kpw that a club might contribute.

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  52. TDS – I get there can only be 11 players on the pitch at any given time – or 10 in our case 🙄 We need fringe players, and bench players, but my biggest problem with these 4 are that they are on £9.1m wages between them. They are on first team wages – and it’s for that reason I’d want to move them on.

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  53. SHARPY

    But we can’t avoid spending that money mate. They are on a contract, so unless someone is willing to match their wages and any bonuses then we have to pay them what they are due as per the contract.

    I 100% agree that all of them are on wages that are higher than they currently deserve, but there’s not much that can be done. We’re better off sticking with them as squad players rather than paying out millions just to make things nice and near, and then potentially being light.

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  54. Good read Eric. I am pretty miffed that Willo and Oba are still here, not so bothered about Goofy And Marv . I think Goofy could find his feet again if steve can build up his confidence and when fit I thought Marv was an ok player tbh. The trouble is I think Marv feels unwanted here, he was seen talking to Cabaye in France at a game and apparently said he was persona non grata at Newcastle.

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  55. TDS – I know why you would go as little as £6k to try and emphasise your point, but really there is no club out there who would think for a second they would have a hope in hell of getting Marv on a wage they would be paying a youth player.

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  56. SHARPY

    £6kpw would be a **** high wage for a youth player in France though. And there are plenty of players in the Championship getting paid that too. It depends how much you value him I suppose. If he’s still worth £20kpw or so, then he should be good enough to do a job for us too.

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  57. TDS – they are only on a contract while they are with us. If we sell them for £100k or say to a club, we are happy for you to sign the player without paying us a fee – we would not be obliged to pay up a contract or loyalty bonus or anything like that. That would only be if we were terminating their contracts.

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  58. TDS – if we was on £20k we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. But he’s not, he’s on £55k – and I would expect a player on that much to be doing more than ‘a job’.

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  59. SHARPY

    Only if the player agreed to go! Why would he leave to get paid £20kpw when he’s on a £55kpw contract? He’ll then demand that the club pays the remaining £35kpw on his contract, plus any bonuses that are due, plus perhaps a termination/loyalty bonus that they keep adding.

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  60. TDS – maybe to play football?! 😕
    If he’s going to sit on our bench all season or play in the reserves, or he can go to a different club where he will play every game, but for a smaller wage then yeah, that happens regularly.
    He could ask us to make up his wages, but we simply say no. He wouldn’t be our player anymore so we would have no obligation to.
    With the buying club not having to pay a fee, they could offset his drop in wages with a signing on payment.
    For example, we may value Marv at £2m. We allow him to leave for nowt, so because the team don’t have to pay us that £2m, they give it to Marv instead, plus a wage of £20k pw on a 3yr deal.
    He can stick around with us for the £55k pw, but that well runs dry at the end of this season, and won’t be renewed. So he’d have to find a new club then anyway.
    If he was to take that £2m plus the £20k pw deal, he’s probably getting about the same money, but playing footy more regularly. If he negotiates a contract that provides bonuses for goals/assists/appearances, then he’d be better off again.
    What we loose in his £2m fee, we recoup in saved wages and medical expenses. We always create space in our squad – widening the path to the first team squad for Aarons, or allowing a squad place to buy or loan someone who may contribute more than Marv has done.
    Apply the same process to any of the other players too.

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  61. SHARPY

    But that’s the problem. If they were the kind of players who need to play regular football, then they would have kicked up a fuss and demanded to leave permanently ages ago and offered to give up part of their wages too. But many players are happy to sit on the bench or in the reserves and get their big pay packets. Very VERY few players leave for a wage cut these days.

    And you’re totally missing the point about Marv and Aarons. If Marv is a better choice than Aarons, then he should stay and play!

    And if we say no to paying up the contract, the player doesn’t have to leave! It’s a contract, we can’t do anything about it!

    Basically, it’s really not that simple. And as I’ve said, if we show a willingness to let these 4 players leave on frees, then we’ll never ever be able to get bids for fringe players again. The precedent will have been set.

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  62. TDS – I think you’re missing the point with Marv mate. He’s played a total of 38 games in the last 4 yrs – why or how would that make him a better option to Aarons … and again, he’d be sat there picking up £55k. His contract is up at the end of the season and it won’t be getting renewed.
    We would be saying no to paying up his contract because we wouldn’t be charging the buying club a fee, which helps them to counter balance the reduction in wage they would be able to offer him.

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  63. TDS – to use Willo as an example because there was suggestions that Leeds were willing to pay £2m for him, but we wanted £2.5m – which is mental if true!! We should have snapped their hands off.

    Willos contract is up at the end of the season. He currently gets £35k which would amount to around £1.8m in his final year with us.
    Say Leeds could only offer £10k pw. We could have said, forget about paying us £2m paid to us – that would cover Willos £1.8m he would have got if he stayed with us. Then he gets a 3yr deal for £10k pw = £520k for the season.
    Everyone wins. Leeds get their player on a wage they can afford. Willo makes an extra half million by leaving us a season early, and gets a 3 yr deal at a club he’s going to play for every week. Newcastle remove a very average player from the club and save having to folk out £35k pw … freeing up some of the salary budget to offer a play like Aarons a better contract.

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  64. What an utter waste of money Marv has been. Liverpool must have been tipped off and deliberately failed him for his medical. He’s been fit for long periods and looked good enough to fit in some poor toon sides over his tenure here, but something must have occurred which burnt his bridges.
    I would love to know.

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